Pahpa

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Posts by Pahpa

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  22

  The Kingdom Of The Cults....

  by lovelylil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  by walter martin.

  anyone read this?

  my used copy from amazon just came today.

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  Pahpa

  Lovelylil

  I read the book some years ago. But I felt that the author had certain prejudices (orthodox standards) he used to define what he thought was Christian. For example, the trinity doctrine becomes a litmus test for judging what is or is not Christian. But this doctrine was not developed until the 4th century and remained a controversy within the church for centuries thereafter. Likewise other doctrines such as immortality of the soul and hell are assumed to be scriptural because orthodoxy tells us so. But it should be noted that the orthodox views were only accepted after years of violence and persecution directed against the opposition. In the end many accept orthodoxy because "might makes right." But there are legitimate arguments that should be considered regarding the teachings of early Christianity and the Bible.

  Personally, I'm not sure it will be doctrine that will decide God's favor. Humans are judged by their deeds according to the Biblical standard.
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  31

  I have been Labeled

  by The Doc 58 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has finally happened after a year of not attending meetings and so forth.

  my cousin emailed me and said that he heard i was an apostate.

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  Pahpa

  I think we are all aware that one can be labeled in a congregation even though no official pronouncement has been made. There exists a "court of general opinion" among JWs that identify the "weak and unproductive" members. Gossip and rumors are wide spread in every congregation. And if one is seen as having even a taint of apostasy that person will be treated as an apostate by others.

  It is just the opposite of what should happen in a real Christian organization. The "weak" should have the full attention and assistance of not only the leaders but the entire membership. (Remember the shepherd who leaves the entire flock to retrieve the lost sheep?) This type of love is the kind that Jesus said would identify his people. The fact that it is sadly lacking among Jehovah's Witnesses speaks volumes.
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  20

  Comebacks for memorial invitations

  by moomanchu in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought in this hounding season we could have a little list of comebacks to jdub invitations to the memorial.. kinda like a reasoning book witnessing tool in reverse.. i thought of one just today;.

  when the dub inevitably says this is the one thing we are commanded to do in the bible;.

  you might respond with; really could you please show me from the bible where it says we are to observe .

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  Pahpa

  WTW

  I think Paul's discussion about the celebration puts it in a congregation setting in contrast to eating and drinking a common meal at home. (1 Co.11:7-34) And although he mentions one can participate and be "unworthy", he certainly does not restrict the participation. The idea that there are two groups, earthly and heavenly, is an invention of Rutherford and the Watchtower Society.
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  34

  Radio programme tonight, trying to get witnesing banned in Aust.

  by Lehaa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  haven't been around lately, but life is great.

  rarely think about the witnesses these days and my mental health is getting better and better.

  was listening to triple m (a radio station here) and the dj was doing a talk back segment about how annoying it is to have witnesses etc.

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  Pahpa

  I think I would rather live in a society that guarantees freedom of expression and religion than one that legislates against it. There are many things that are annoying in life. But do we want to restrict other people's rights just to assure our own comfort? After all, some people are glad to have JWs, Mormons or Adventists call. Personally, I would rather take other measures such as requesting JWs not to call on my home any more or to put a sign up saying that JWs are not welcomed.

  Personal freedoms are precious. We want to be sure we don't restrict the rights of other individuals just to convenience ourselves.
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  23

  So, Kingdom News #37 was intended to start the great tribulation?

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have seen the following statement made on this board several times: 'kn #37 ("the end of false religion is near") was intended by the wbts to provoke the great tribulation.

  that's an intriguing thought.

  i'm just curious where it came from.

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  Pahpa

  If JWs can accept that the plagues of Revelation were pronouncments at various assemblies in the early 1920s it is not hard to understand why they may feel that this Kingdom News #37 would be a trigger for the great tribulation. But, perhaps, the Watchtower Society has released "new light" on this embarrasing page of their history or kept very quiet about it hoping that it will "go away."

  But I'm sure in the case of the Kingdom New #37, the Watchtower would be quick to point out that no official view was printed in the literature and that this was the "private speculation" of some individual JWs.
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  4

  Catholic bishops speak out!

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "on february 28 the catholic bishops of alta and baja california issued a "pastoral exhortation concerning proselytism.

  " the document mentions the mormons, the jehovah's witnesses, the seventh-day adventists, and pentecostals--in other words, the groups most successful in wooing catholics...".

  (see http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1990/9004ps.asp).

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  Pahpa

  It would seem that the Catholic church is only reaping what it has sown down through its history. Traditionally, it aligned itself with the rich and powerful at the expense of the poor and vulnerable. It exploited its members to maintain a firm grip over them religiously and politically. From time to time, Catholics rebelled and tried to reform the institution. They were usually persecuted and executed. Finally, the movement for reform overwhelmed the church when the Reformers organized and established their own churches. It's reaction was to use the Inquisitiion to maintain its power. It failed.

  Now, the church has finally become aware that the old tactics no longer work. Great inroads have been made by the various sects and cults especially among hispanics where the abuse of the church was especially egregious. It may be too late for "patchwork" attempts to bring the lost sheep back. If the church had really practiced the teachings of Christ instead of pursuing its worldly course this would not even be an issue today.
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  63

  is a homosexual as bad as a paodophile to a jw ?

  by looloo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the same guy that spoke to my mum on the doors yesterday was talking about them in the same catergory , aswell as saying that there are alot of 13 to 15 year old girls hanging around the local night club looking for a one night stands (she should of asked him how he knew about this , is that because he is there ?

  ) his point was is a man of 25 that picks up a 15 year old plastered in makeup at a nightclub a paedophile ?

  which was totally irrelevant to the point she was making about the local ex min servant that had abused his daughters friends in the cong even though he was good friends with thier parents and had known the girls since birth , so did know they were underage .

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  Pahpa

  Homosexuality was a disfellowshipping offense unless you held a high position in the organization like Chitty and Greenlees. Pedophilia wasn't really addressed in any serious manner by the Watchtower Society until the scandal broke with the revelations of Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson. So, the standard held by the Watchtower Society has been a double standard motivated by it trying to keep a clean image of the organization. Ironically, it has backfired and exposed one of its worst aspects.
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  39

  Changes to alot of the eschatological beliefs of the WBTS.

  by jefferywhat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i posted something similar on a different thread but it was blissfully ignored and i really think its worth a discussion.

  leolola touched on this in another thread and that is of the changes to alot of the eschatological beliefs of the wbts.

  a) 1935- no longer cut off for fds .

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  Pahpa

  Older JWs who remain in the organization just accept whatever the FDS "spoons" out to them. And they actually rejoice in the "new light" even though it may contradict Watchtower positions held for many years. Newer JWs probably don't even know what was previously taught. So, they just accept it as part of the learning process (indoctrination) they are going through at the time.

  However, there are always some individuals that discern the contradictions and leave the organization with each change. It may not include large numbers of people. But it often does include those more serious JWs who are well aware of the teachings of the Watchtower Society. It is a slow erosion of the base of the membership. And although it hasn't manifest itself in a complete collapse it has seriously endangered the construction of the organization.
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  12

  Hidden Art In Watchtower..

  by AgentSmith in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this may have been dealt with before on another thread.

  we all know of the 'hidden art' that seem to pour out of the wtb&ts pictures.

  i thought (incorrectly it seems) that the art dept in brooklyn put s a stop to it.. i don't get watchtowers anymore, but my in-laws sent me the feb 15 2008 issue (study edition) in an attempt to convince mrs smith and i that the 'generation' is a coherent reasoning.... yes, i shake my head in disbelief as well.

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  Pahpa

  I think this is in the same category as clouds in the sky and ink blots on paper. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
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  43

  Elders in their 20's?

  by Princess Daisy Boo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my little sister called me just now.

  exciting news - stop the presses - her husband has been made an elder.

  she is 27 and he is 26... is that not a little young to be an elder?

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  Pahpa

  Talk about a oximoron: "young elder."