Posts by Pahpa

9

Grasping "new" points when reading the Bible?

by GOrwell in

i'm always surprised when reading the bible of things that i've missed or never saw in that manner before.

how often does this happen to you?.

for instance, i've probably read the book of john about 8-10 times.

Pahpa

Most scholars admit that the trinity doctrine is not found in the NT. Quite to the

contrary, Jesus is identified as the "son of God" ....not "God, the son." Scholars

also admit that the teaching grew out of the neo-Platonic ideas brought into

the early church by the influx of Gentiles who were influenced by Greek

philosophy. (One can hardly imagine a Jewish believer accepting anything contrary to

the belief "The LORD our God, the LORD is one.") Bible translators have tried to inject

their own personal beliefs into their efforts. But a simple reading of the NT makes it

clear that the "new" points are in fact the "old" points made by the trinitarians over

the years. Early Christians understood the role of Jesus as the Son of God and his

elevated position at the "right hand of God."

5

They want to become chaplains in prison Jehovah's Witnesses before a tribunal

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

they want to become chaplains in prison jehovah's witnesses before a tribunalhttp://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3a%2f%2fwww.lunion.presse.fr%2farticle%2ffaits-divers%2fils-veulent-devenir-aumoniers-de-prison-des-temoins-de-jehovah-saisissent-le-tr&anno=2.

publie le mercredi 26 janvier 2011 a 11h00 posted wednesday, january 26, 2011 at 11:00. accueil > faits divers - laonhome > miscellaneous facts - laonils veulent devenir aumoniers de prison des temoins de jehovah saisissent le tribunalthey want to become chaplains in prison jehovah's witnesses before a tribunal10 contributions10 contributionspublie le mercredi 26 janvier 2011 a 11h00 posted wednesday, january 26, 2011 at 11:00. .

publie le mercredi 26 janvier 2011 a 11h00 posted wednesday, january 26, 2011 at 11:00. jehovah's witnesses seek the right to become prison chaplains, especially in laon.. .

Pahpa

Undoubtedly, this is a strategy of the Watchtower organization in France to get some recognition in an official capacity

to secure its religious status in that country. If the State allows Jehovah's Witnesses to become chaplains, then

it's a step forward for the Watchtower to argue full acceptance as a religious body in France. It certainly is

not motivated by the love of the prisoners and court system. But it does suggest that the Watchtower is

willing to make concessions for its own gain.

12

ROME Demonstration against ostracism and shunning

by Nick! in

jw
friends

on december 1st, a relatively large group of ex-jehovahs witnesses and supporters of human rights held a demonstration in front of the italian parliament in piazza montecitorio.. the manifestation sprung from the reaction of many of those who have been disfellowshipped or expelled by the governance of the jehovahs witnesses cult and who, following the instructions of the watchtower leadership, have been shunned not only by their ex worshipping fellows, but even by the members of their own family.. shunning is an old weapon used by the watchtower leadership against those who stop sharing their views on religious matters and if a demonstration was all that was required to alert the public opinion about it, then it should have been acted upon very long ago.. the reason why the demonstration took place now rather than in the past is because the italian parliament is about to approve a law which would grant the watchtower even more religious freedom and privileges than what it has enjoyed up to now, including the right to receive from the italian state their share of the 0.8% of the income tax revenue paid by the italian tax payers.. while jehovahs witnesses, as an organization, already enjoy a large amount of religious privileges in the country, they claim for themselves from the state the same rights granted to the catholic church and other recognized religious denominations.

but, contrary to those other religious movements, only jehovahs witnesses violate the human rights granted by the un charter, the european union charter and the italian constitutional rights by shunning those who decide to leave the movement, instructing their members to totally discriminate socially, secularly and even family wise, their ex members.. the objective of the demonstration last wednesday was to alert the public opinion about the issue and, because the place where it was held, alert the italian parliament about the law they are about to approve in favor of the watchtower.

the demonstration followed the hundreds of letters sent during the last three months by many ex jehovahs witnesses and other supporters of human rights, directly to individual members of the parliament or to the whole parliamentary commission for the constitutional affairs.. what can be said about the demonstration itself; was it a success or a failure?.

Pahpa

Once again, the Watchtower Society's hypocrisy is exposed. Jehovah's Witnesses

deplore the "persecution" of their members. Yet, they practice one of the worst

forms, ostracising and shunning former members because they dared to question

the validity of their claim as belonging to "God's organization." It has caused pain

and heartache to thousands of families who are torn from loved ones. How can

a religious organization who insists on its own freedom deny the same to so

many all in the name of God?

3

Greek scriptures and early Christians

by Pahpa in

the writings of the new testament were written primarily for the.

ordinary christian believer.

a few were to specific people.

Pahpa

The writings of the New Testament were written primarily for the

ordinary Christian believer. A few were to specific people. But on the

whole, it was not for an elite intellectual class within the congregation.

It was only when some leaders introduced the pagan philosophers

and tried to adapt their beliefs to the simple message of the gospel

that the teachings became complicated and hard to understand.

This gave those leaders the authority and power over their

members. There also seems to be a correlation between the demise

of the early Jewish Christians and the newly converted Gentile

believers in accepting ideas that were repulsive to those Jewish

brothers. Eventually, the Gentile members controlled the leadership

roles and forced out the original Jewish members with a vengence

and hatred as evidenced in some of the writings of the early "Church

Fathers."

3

Greek scriptures and early Christians

by Pahpa in

Pahpa

7

Translations and Translators

by Pahpa in

translation has come under a lot of criticism for its biased and incorrect renderings.

it is a fair evaluation.

but it is not peculiar to that translation alone.

Pahpa

Most of the philosophical and historical works of ancient history that

we have today are also only "copies" of the original. Yet, most scholars

and translators have no difficulty in accepting them as genuine. It is

usually when the Bible is involved that critics bring up these issues.

One has to wonder what motive critics have in using a double

standard when evaluating these documents.

39

JW says "how could anyone learn the truth with only a bible"

by clarity in

i would appreciate your help trying to explain to a jw, how someone could just read a bible on their own and understand what it is all about.

without an organization.. also, how could nonchristians or pagans etc find out about christ without someone to teach them?

after 45 years of using the bible, it is easy for me to say to jesus question "who will you go away to?

Pahpa

I remember when an elder used the example of Philip and

the Ethiopian eunuch as the reason one needed help in understanding

the Scriptures. (Acts 8) What was not said was that Philip used the

Scriptures to explain the fulfillment of Isaiah by Christ. He did not have

Watchtower literature or a prolonged period of study in the publications.

The Eunuch was baptisted that day. Quite a contrast to the procedure that is

used by the Watchtower in making a convert today.

Pahpa

36

House to House and Door to Door proves to be a shame diversion

by Terry in

english standard version(2001).

woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites!

for you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.. .

Pahpa

The house to house ministry was a lucrative business for the Watchtower

Society for years. People often paid for the literature just to get rid of

the persistent Jehovah's Witness. The "publisher" guaranteed a constant

demand for the literature even though most of it ended up in trash bins.

Today, the "profit" is internal. Whatever the Watchtower publishes, it has

ready consumers among its members. But no Jehovah's Witness ever

thinks to ask why all this is necessary. Jesus and the apostles spread

the "good news" by mouth. They used a public forum for their audience.

(Synagogues, public squares, personal contact, etc.) There is no

clear record that a house to house ministry ever existed at that time.

7

Translations and Translators

by Pahpa in

translation has come under a lot of criticism for its biased and incorrect renderings.

it is a fair evaluation.

but it is not peculiar to that translation alone.

Pahpa

The N.W. translation has come under a lot of criticism for its biased and incorrect renderings.

It is a fair evaluation. But it is not peculiar to that translation alone. Most translators have

personal beliefs that color their decisions on how a verse should be translated. If one

has strong trinitarian leanings, then this person tries hard to incorporate his beliefs

into his rendering. Since the majority of translators had religious preferences, it is

reflected in their works. This is evident in most translations.

7

gb members - part of a local congo ?

by inbetween in

to all with bethel inside information:.

normally the brothers serving at bethel are also connected with some local congregation.

in my area, the brothers in bethel support different congregations in their city.. how is this in new york ?

Pahpa

It wouldn't surprise me if the members of the GB did not attend

the local congregations. Years ago, we were told the the members were

exempt from going house to house because of their reponsibiliity running

the organization. Their exalted positions can be illustrated by the experience

of a friend who toured Bethel. The group was told that if they saw a member

of the G.B. they were not to bother him as he was "busy doing the Lord's work."

For some of us, it was hard to understand. Christ criticized those apostles

who prevented the children from seeing him. Were G.B. members better

than him?