Posts by Pahpa

41

New York Times June 22, 1918

by Nathan Natas in

================ text version below ==========.

20 years in prison for 7 russellites.

judge howe scores men who.

I think you are well aware of the abuses of civil rights during the time of war. The Japanese internment camps of WWII are but one example. By my expression "war fever" I mean the rampant patriotism during wartime that denies constitutional rights in the name of national security. (We saw the same abuses during the McCathy era during the "cold war." )

The charges that Rutherford and other Bethel members were impeding the war effort were not substantiated. Whatever wording you may wish to use the fact is the charges against Rutherford and his fellow inmates were dropped and they were released from prison. This would have been a remarkable reversal if they had truly been "traitors." Clearly, the "fever" had subsided and cooler heads prevailed. (Personally, I like the anology.)

We're seeing the same trend today where torture, imprisonment and denial of civil rights once again are playing a major role sanctioned by a government that is out of control. Many of the same political leaders that took a vow to protect and to uphold the Constitution are those who are trampling it underfoot all in the name of security.

28

That Martin Luther? He wasnt so bad, says Pope

by Deputy Dog in

from the timesmarch 6, 2008 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3492299.ece according to vatican insiders the pope will argue that luther, who was excommunicated and condemned for heresy, was not a heretic.

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Pahpa

Deputy Dog

I think anyone reading Luther's writings against the Jews and Peasants would find his intentions very clear. Luther was a religious leader. His words influenced his followers. One can not blame the Catholic Church for his deep personal feelings as expressed in his writings. He was not timid in condemning many of the church's doctrines. It is obvious that he had ulterior motives when he spewed out his vitriol against those he hated...including the Pope and church leaders. He had thrown in his lot with the princes who supported him and with his members upon whom he depended.

The point is that he ignored Christ's teaching to love one's enemies and forgive those tresspassing against you. You may agree with Luther that violence and murder is a solution. But in doing so, you transgress those principles that Christ taught his followers. Luther should have known better!

41

New York Times June 22, 1918

by Nathan Natas in

================ text version below ==========.

20 years in prison for 7 russellites.

judge howe scores men who.

Pahpa

It should not be forgotten that individual rights as citizens are often overlooked in the fervor of "war fever." We often see the abuse of civil rights during the time of war. (Just look what has happened recently.) I think Rutherford and his fellow inmates were probably victims at this time. The fact that the court exhonorated them afterwards indicate that cooler heads prevailed.

We may not agree with Rutherford and his ruthless methods used to gain control of the Watchtower Society. But we should not "rejoice over evil" regardless the person/persons involved.

28

That Martin Luther? He wasnt so bad, says Pope

by Deputy Dog in

from the timesmarch 6, 2008 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3492299.ece according to vatican insiders the pope will argue that luther, who was excommunicated and condemned for heresy, was not a heretic.

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Pahpa

XJWElder:

Henry VIII was awarded a medal by the Catholic church as "Defender of the Faith." It was because he argued against the teachings of Martin Luther and the other Reformers. His break with the church was for personal, not theological, reasons. Since the church refused him a divorce, he broke with the church and established his own. He also benefited financially from the monastaries and church property he confiscated. He became the head of the English church which he considered the "true Catholic church."

28

That Martin Luther? He wasnt so bad, says Pope

by Deputy Dog in

from the timesmarch 6, 2008 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3492299.ece according to vatican insiders the pope will argue that luther, who was excommunicated and condemned for heresy, was not a heretic.

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Pahpa

StAnn

The biggest road block with the Orthodox and Protestant churches is the insistence of the Catholic Church that it is the one true church by reason of apostolic succession. As such, it assumes that the pope is the "vicar of Christ" and head of the church. Authority has always been the issue down through history. The church used every means possible to assert this authority through its inquistions and crusades. Its apologies in recent times don't erase the crimes against humanity done in the name of Christ. It may be a matter of a "cold case"....but it will have to answer for its terrible record of persecution, torture and murder.

28

That Martin Luther? He wasnt so bad, says Pope

by Deputy Dog in

from the timesmarch 6, 2008 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3492299.ece according to vatican insiders the pope will argue that luther, who was excommunicated and condemned for heresy, was not a heretic.

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Pahpa

Deputy Dog

Weren't the Jews and Peasants "common people?" In Luther's treatise "On Jews and Their Lies" he recommends the destruction of their homes, work places and synagogues and their forced removal from towns. He even went as far as to say: "We are at fault in not slaying them." That sounds like more than a theological difference of opinion.

Regarding the peasants in his diatribe "Against the Murderous Thieving Hordes of Peasants" he said "Whosever can should smite, strangle and stab (them)...." His intent seems quite clear.

It has been noted by some historians that one of the reasons that Adolf Hitler was able to continue his policy of the Holocaust in Germany was because of the historical anti-semitism that was ingrained from the time of Luther.

It must be remembered that the "common people" in Germany also loved Hitler. But that doesn't mean that his policies didn't bring suffering and grief to others. True, Luther was no Hitler. But neither was he the Christian that many people suppose.

28

That Martin Luther? He wasnt so bad, says Pope

by Deputy Dog in

from the timesmarch 6, 2008 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3492299.ece according to vatican insiders the pope will argue that luther, who was excommunicated and condemned for heresy, was not a heretic.

.

Pahpa

Deputy Dog

I'm not sure your conclusions about Martin Luther are correct. Have you read any of his diatribes against the Jews and the Peasants? My impression is that he thought of them as vermin and pests to be eliminated by any means. Ironically, the peasants rebelled against their owners because of Martin Luther. The lesson they learned from him was to question authority and to overthrow an oppressive system. Luther, in turn, saw this as a threat to his own standing whose support depended upon the princely authority.

I would be disappointed if I thought that some on this forum had the same attitude as Martin Luther toward individual JWs. They are victims of the Watchtower organization who deserve our pity and compassion more than our hatred.

28

That Martin Luther? He wasnt so bad, says Pope

by Deputy Dog in

from the timesmarch 6, 2008 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3492299.ece according to vatican insiders the pope will argue that luther, who was excommunicated and condemned for heresy, was not a heretic.

.

Pahpa

Maybe it's because Martin Luther became like a Pope among the Lutherans. It's a matter of perspective. Just asked the Jews of his day or the peasants who were part of the Peasant Rebellion in Germany.

The problem with many of the Reformers is they aligned themselves with powerful princes and established religious "empires" of their own. Many ended up persecuting and killing others who did not hold to their doctrines. (Anabatist, Servetus, etc.) It reminds me of the Puritans of New England. They fled Europe to escape the persecution. But when they established their own "new Jerusalem" they had no toleration toward those who held different beliefs and persecuted and banished the dissidents. (Sound familiar?)

31

I have been Labeled

by The Doc 58 in

it has finally happened after a year of not attending meetings and so forth.

my cousin emailed me and said that he heard i was an apostate.

Pahpa

Oompa

Rest easy! I don't see any danger of this happening in the congregations of JWs. The principles involving love are far removed from the Watchtower organization. But I do wonder on occasion just how many of us might still be in the organization if the elders and other members had shown a genuine concern for those who were "wounded" and suffering.

17

How many of you knew this?

by startingover in

jw
friends

that the first real discovery of a dinosaur was in 1822?.

http://content.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=4772.

for some time now i have been of the opinion that those who believe in the bible are extremely near sighted, and are not looking at the big picture.

Pahpa

mkr

There was an interesting program on a few weeks ago that suggested that the widespread belief of "dragons" in the middle ages may have been the result of men finding large dinosaur bones. It seemed to confirm that these large mythical beasts actually existed.