Posts by iamfreenow

30

Well, Trev is ill now!

by iamfreenow in

jw
friends

at least i don't think so.. he has a flu-like illness and feels pretty awful.

by his own admission, he's been neglecting himself these last few months, and i think with all the stres he's been under that perhaps his immune system is very low.

he looks pretty awful as well, like he's had all the blood drained out of him.. even so, he was going to get on with the things he needs to do today, at least until i intervened.

iamfreenow

Marion, please give Trev a big hug from me - and tell him to do as he's told lol!!

Don't worry Emo, he is doing! He has no choice, there are three of us here now, so he's outnumbered.

We've been dividing up the jobs for tomorrow, and Gareth is going to finalise the funeral arrangements, while Julie takes Trev to the doctors in the morning. Julie and I are doing the shopping in the afternoon, as soon as Gareth gets back. We are just trying to make sure Trev isn't left alone. He is displaying flu-like symptoms, but we all think it is more exhaustion than anything else, so hopefully the doctor will be able to help.

27

fader's wife expresses 1st doubts....

by sweet pea in

talking to a friend (ex-elder) today whose wife was (is) a close friend of mine .

she's still a jdub but won't talk to me now i'm df'd (apparently it hit her very hard when we left) and so she busied herself with ministry and meetings in search of comfort and affirmation of her faith.

this didn't work for her and she came out with an unexpected question... .

iamfreenow

I think your friend answered very well, sweet pea. You are right, it is a very common question for JWs to ask, we were taught that there is nothing beyond the organisation, or nothing worth having anyway. It's a difficult one to answer, of course because, as JWs, we assumed that we had all the answers. I would perhaps ask "why don't you look and see"?

Who knows, maybe she has seen that you haven't turned into a sad individual since leaving, and is puzzled by that. After all, that's the picture that the Watchtower paints of those who leave, and anyone not conforming to that stereotype is going to be a mystery to the average JW. Or perhaps she sees that her husband is happier now he is fading, and doesn't appear to need anything beyond the Watchtower.

Whatever, if she's asking questions, it's a start.

48

Did You Willingly Get Baptized or Were You Pressured Into It?

by minimus in

jw
friends

it was expected of me to get baptized and at 9 i was.

what about you?

iamfreenow

It was a bit of both for me. I was baptised in 1960, just after my 14th birthday, and I was anxious to please my parents. Me being baptised did that, and I was happy to do it, but it had been suggested to me that it was the right thing to do, so there was some persuasion involved as well.

You were awfully young at 9 Minimus. I know they baptise many children of that age nowadays, but it hasn't always been so in the UK in my experience. It's increased as the number of adult converts has decreased.

13

Are we being conned re new light?

by why144000 in

jw
friends

i have been reading with interest the news of the next change in the generation teaching.

does anyone have any substantive proof that this change will be made?

it could be a big con to get us all excited and tell others about it and reveal that we are, wait for it, apostate!!

iamfreenow

The Watchtower need to keep coming up with new light, it's totally necessary for them in order to maintain control.

I remember the reaction of several elderly JWs to the 1995 generation change. They had been in the organisation for years, getting older without any real sign of the new system that would make them young again coming, but confident that the generation doctrine as it was then would ensure that it would be here before the end of the 20th Century.

All that changed in 1995, and all those old, faithful sisters and brothers suddenly realised that they might die in this system after all. I wasn't overly thrilled with the change myself, but some of the older ones were very near devastated, though the Watchtower are so clever in the way they change a doctrine that most of them accepted it.

Now that I'm no longer a JW, I can see these changes for what they really are, ways of avoiding the embarassment of having to explain another failed prophecy or, as in the case of the change in the gathering of the anointed in May, having a ready-made excuse for the number of Memorial partakers rising. This latest proposed change won't be the last time the Watchtower tinker with the generation doctrine, of that I'm sure,

They'll probably say it's Jehovah'w way of feeding his people spiritually by gradually increasing their understanding of his word, when in reality it's a desperate act by increasingly desperate men who are well aware of how much opposition they have nowadays, and are fighting to maintain control of the millions that they have fooled with their false doctrines.

Marion

30

Well, Trev is ill now!

by iamfreenow in

jw
friends

at least i don't think so.. he has a flu-like illness and feels pretty awful.

by his own admission, he's been neglecting himself these last few months, and i think with all the stres he's been under that perhaps his immune system is very low.

he looks pretty awful as well, like he's had all the blood drained out of him.. even so, he was going to get on with the things he needs to do today, at least until i intervened.

iamfreenow

Men can be so hard-headed

Yes Sylvia, can't they just!

It wasn't easy to get him to listen to me, but once he saw how determined I was, he gave in, especially when I reminded him that he can't drive his car without keys! I have them in a safe place, he won't find them, though he's ok'd Jule using his car if she needs to, which will please her immenslely, she drove it back from the hospital on Saturday, and now wants one like it.

30

Well, Trev is ill now!

by iamfreenow in

jw
friends

at least i don't think so.. he has a flu-like illness and feels pretty awful.

by his own admission, he's been neglecting himself these last few months, and i think with all the stres he's been under that perhaps his immune system is very low.

he looks pretty awful as well, like he's had all the blood drained out of him.. even so, he was going to get on with the things he needs to do today, at least until i intervened.

iamfreenow

But it isn't too serious. at least I don't think so.

He has a flu-like illness and feels pretty awful. By his own admission, he's been neglecting himself these last few months, and I think with all the stres he's been under that perhaps his immune system is very low. He looks pretty awful as well, like he's had all the blood drained out of him.

Even so, he was going to get on with the things he needs to do today, at least until I intervened. We got a call from his friend this morning that both him and Julie have managed to get short notice leave from tomorrow for the rest of the week, and they are quite happy to make arrangements for him. I sent him back to bed, after a short argument, during which I used a very rare for me mild swearword, which let him know I was serious, and got him some patent medicines from the chemist.(the word was "bugger", used in context with the conversation of course) He's there now, fast asleep. I think what might have ultimately swayed it was that I have hidden his car keys, so he can't go anywhere anyway, or at least anywhere far. To be honest, he looks on the verge of collapse, and bed is the best place for him.

Don't worry about him though, we'll look after him, and make all the necessary arrangements, which I'll post later, between us. Julie and Gareth will be here by around 6:30, so we can delegate the tasks then.

Marion

6

Trying to help a would-be JW

by iamfreenow in

trev received this email earlier from someone who is studying with the jws, and he has allowed me to post it.

dear trevor.

however i have a legal background and am consequently.

iamfreenow

The gentleman replied to Trev immediately, it seems

Hello Trevor
Thank you for your reply. I will investigate the
points you have raised.

Brief but hopeful was Trev's comment. We are both pretty sure that if he reads much on Quotes, and especially if he reads Crisis of Conscience, he won't be joining the Watchtower Society. Trev hasn't lost his sense of humour - he commented that the organisation are probably interested in the man's legal background because they were looking to free legal aid in the future, once they have snared him. He didn't suggest that to the man, of course.

"summer"

This post is not helping only this someone who sent the email to Trevor. I bookmarked the 2 links.
Thank you

You are most welcome. Trev's bookmarks are rather like a JW information encyclopedia. He seems to know where to find the answers to most questions. He is very well organised in his opposition to the Watchtower.

Marion

6

Trying to help a would-be JW

by iamfreenow in

trev received this email earlier from someone who is studying with the jws, and he has allowed me to post it.

dear trevor.

however i have a legal background and am consequently.

iamfreenow

Trev received this email earlier from someone who is studying with the JWs, and he has allowed me to post it

Dear Trevor
I have been studying with the JW's for some time now.
However I have a legal background and am consequently
cautious about matters of doctrine. Generally I feel
that all religious organizations come to some
debatable conclusions. So it seems inevitable that
there will be difficult areas, whoever one becomes
involved with.

Over the years I have become disillusioned with the
mainstream churches for various reasons including the
following :
1. They offer repetitive ritual and little else.
Certainly there is no Bible study for educated adults.

2. Certain teachings which are as clear as crystal in
the New testament are often ignored, seemingly by
popular demand. How one can do this and claim to be a
Christian is literally beyond me.
3. Most churches are very hierarchical, involved in
politics, bless weaponry etc.
4. Some preach ideas that conflict with or are simply
not contained in The Bible.

I therefore came to the following conclusions:
a). It seems likely that the most sincere way to
attempt to embrace Christianity is to try to emulate
first century Christians.
b).The principle of elders taking to task members of
the congregation who offend Christian values is, to
me, no more than I would expect. And no more than was
practiced in the first century. I see nothing
draconian or sinister here in principle. Indeed
without this how can a congregation maintain the
highest standards?
Hence my involvement with the Witnesses.

So Trevor, I do find one or two of the JW's very
literal Bibical interpretations difficult and some
conclusions a step farther than I would have thought
necessary. But I have been unable to uncover anything
more worrying than that. Furthermore where else could
I find the level of commitment I seek? I get the
distinct impression that in these times many critics
simply resent the idea of being supervised by elders
or are stung by the JW's rigorous approach to a life
of faith, when compared with their own.
The above is not intended to be confrontational.
However I do not wish to make the considerable
commitment of becoming a Witness and have my life
ruined by disillusion. I would therefore greatly
welcome any further information or comments you are
able to provide me with in case I am uninformed or
naive.

Sincerely

This gentleman has obviously been listening to the Watchtower's conclusions about those of us who have seen through their deceit and left. Of course, the organisation never acknowledge that anyone leaves because of finding out the the truth about their so-called truth, and have to invent lies to explain why they are losing so many members.

Trev was resting when the email came, but he has replied. I told him to leave it till later, but his reaction was that he had promised Linda he would continue to help anyone who asked him to, and such things can't wait, so he replied thus, in a very balanced way, in my opinion.

Hello xxxxx, As I am sure you are aware, I am a former jw. The reason I left was nothing to do with the fact that the congregation was run by the elders, or their use of their authority. During my time as a jw, the Watchtower made a major doctrinal change regarding their genration beliefs. I began an investigation of jw history, and found that this wasn't the first time that they had changed their beliefs, and on several occasions they had predicted the end of the world, and obviously the prophecy had failed. There is much information on this site http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/home.html which is entirely composed of older Watchtower publications which the organisation doesn't encourage its' members to read. The many, and there have been many, doctrinal flip flops are documented there, and I advise you to have a look. I would also advise you to read a book called Crisis of Conscience, by Raymond Franz, which can be obtained at a reasonable price from Amazon. Parts of it can be read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Franz I would advise you to thoroughly investigate the Watchtower Society before making any commitment. Many have found that things are not all they seem, or all the jws would have you believe, in the organisation. regards Trevor Spencer

We both hope that this gentleman does investigate the Watchtower before he considers making a commitment to the organisation. We don't want anyone else going through what many of us have endured. We both hope that he will read Crisis of Conscience, which should be more than enough to save him from the Watchtower.

Marion

75

LIGHT A CANDLE TODAY FOR LINDA & POST A PIC HERE

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

is there something we can do for linda as a group?

purplesofa sent a nice card from jwd.

is there something else we can do to support her and trev right now?

iamfreenow

rebel8 said

Do you all realize what a beautiful thing you've done?

Despite the sadness, this thread is the one of the brightest shining moments of JWD ever. We did a nice thing to support a dying lady in her final hours.

Don't ever let fake religionists look down on you, not even for a moment. You obviously have more compassion in your little finger than they have in their whole bodies.

Rebel is right, this has been a wonderful, spontaneous gesture of love and support by everyone. The collage that Guest with Questions created was so wonderful.

When we saw it, Julie had the idea to print it, buy a frame and present it to Trev. We did that, and gave it to him earlier today. He was so overwhelmed he could barely speak, and it now hangs next to the card that purps sent a few weeks ago on his bedroom wall. I know that he will treasure both the card and the collage for the rest of his life.

Thankyou all

love

Marion

9

wow so much love

by Dianna in

jw
friends

i really didnt expect a lot of people to respond to my message.

now i see why my friend insisted me on posting something on here.

thank you very much for your support for the people that answered to my message.

iamfreenow

Hello Dianna, and welcome

Yes, there is a lot of love here, it's one of the things that makes this forum such a wonderful place to be. I do hope you stay with us.

Marion