Posts by OnTheWayOut

25

Letter from a family member: is there even a point?

by under_believer in

jw
friends

i have been corresponding with a certain family member of mine on the problems i have with the society and the witnesses.

we've been mostly outlining the parameters such a discussion would take (a sort of meta-discussion) rather than having the discussion itself.

i received this lovely gem from this family member today: .

OnTheWayOut

Could you go from it with the angle of - I thought you & I communicated so well that you of all people would be able to clear up a few things for me. It's only a discussion, I'm not 'attacking' anything, only asking a few questions. For instance, I was always taught xxxx, but looking into it closer I have found yyyyyy, and yyyyyy and yyyyy. What do you think about that? (if you include wt quotes it may cut down on their cut & paste)

I almost ditto this response from Carla, but others make a good point. You don't want this person seeing you as an attack dog, tearing down, sent by Satan. Perhaps you could say "You and I communicate so well, I really want your help." then back off a bit. Just mention things here and there, don't try to always appear overbearing. Then the communication line will stay up.

9

Milestone anniversaries are an embarassment to WTS?

by bebu in

jw
friends

i read recently that the nazarene church (where i currently attend) has 1.6 million members worldwide.

the naz church will be celebrating a 100 year anniversary of its beginnings in 2008.

(october!

OnTheWayOut

From my understanding, we don't want to bring undue attention to ourselves, when all credit for our surviving another year should go to Jehovah. (Something like that for birthdays, should be similar reasoning for WT.) I have never seen the WT try to use it's own anniversary of anything. It would have been something for them to have a 100 yr. anniversary. While they do not, it will be interesting to see if they try to suppress the JW buzz in 2014. The organization in the U.S. should be much smaller by then, perhaps magazines won't even be twice-a-month by then.

Also, they would have to be careful with anniversaries. People would want to look back at "that issue 100 years ago." People would say, "My, how things have changed. We used to..." I wish I had said in 1995, "This is the 20 year anniversary of the last 'end of the world.' Now the date has two significant meanings- the time of the end that didn't happen, and the delay of the time of the end indefinitely."

26

Should I decorate or not - ?

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

for the two xmas's we have been 'out', wifey and i have celebrated christmas quietly with the grandkids and a few family.

although we have had a tree - somewhat hidden from view inside - we have not ever put a light or decoration outside.

this week i proposed to wifey that i light the large conifer in the back yard this season.

OnTheWayOut

I haven't gone back and read your past posts, so maybe you answered this, but, what impact is a disfellowshipping going to have on your life or the life of others? It (almost certainly) will happen. I know I could stand it if I just had my wife out of the congregation. I could give up the other friends and family.

25

What's The Dumbest Decision You've Ever Made?

by minimus in

jw
friends

.....either jw related or not.

OnTheWayOut

Many are going to say the same thing: The dumbest thing I ever did was allow a JW to "teach" me THE TRUTH, then assume that the circular logic of WT publications made total sense of the Bible.

Here's what a smart person would have done: "You want to teach me the truth from the Bible using other books from your WTS. Do I need books from outside the Bible to teach me the Bible? YES? Then don't I need books from outside the WTS to teach me about the WTS?"

I hope I'm a smart person from now on.

14

Could the Watchtower handle a huge increase in numbers?

by JH in

less than 1% of people in america are jw's.

now imagine if 10 or 20% of people became jw's.

could the watchtower handle the numbers?.

OnTheWayOut

Also, what if alot of people were really zealous--would they quit their jobs of being teachers, doctors, etc. so that they could pioneer and wash windows?

I thought this thread was kind of silly. What would you do if you were suddenly a billionaire? Could you handle the pressure? Somehow, you would adapt. But reading the quote above gave me a great laugh. If a large portion of a U.S. town were to suddenly be zealous JWs, then they would start undercutting each other's bids on janitorial/cleaning jobs. Leaving the kingdom hall, they would make sure nobody follows them to their job, because they wouldn't want other JW to know where to offer their cleaning services. They would get so paranoid about each other. Every business would have the cleanest windows, floors at the lowest price. All the JW who work at the same places would try to get other JW fired because bosses would have a hard time deciding who gets the weekend off for assemblies. Walmart would have to close on Thursday evening, same with many places- no workers and no customers.

36

NWT inserting Jehovah in the NT (discussing the "J" references)

by AuldSoul in

i wrote most of this in response to drew sagan, in a thread that wasn't really about this issue.

when i read back over it, i figured it need a thread of its own.. the first part of the puzzle is in appendix 1d of the nwt reference bible.

they list all "237 places where the name jehovah occurs in the main text of the new world translation of the christian greek scriptures.

OnTheWayOut

I read an entire thesis on the poster's understanding. That is all true. There is no reason to put "Jehovah" into the New Testament. In layman's terms, it is done because it is clear that the writer was quoting a Hebrew scripture which originally had the name in it. Well, if the writer of the Greek wanted it there, it would have been there. The later texts which put "Jehovah" into them have no authority to do so.

Do you think it is wrong when the quote in Hebrew is YHWH that they place the Name Jehovah in that place?

I used to think it was okay to put God's name back into the Hebrew Old Testament, but since the name itself is lost to modern pronounciations, perhaps it would be better to transliterate and leave the tetragramaton (forgot how to spell it) in the scriptures. But, (hate to agree with WT) the important thing would be to understand the name, meaning. (Of course, they don't want us to understand the Elohim of the New Testament.

7

Comparing the Watchtower to a government ... your thoughts

by The wanderer in

jw
friends

untitled document  comparing the watchtower to a government during the time in which i spent as one of jehovah's witnesses.

the watchtower society would often compare itself to a theocracy.. however, over the course of time that was not my perception con-.

cerning the watchtower.. what kind of government would you compare it to?does the society represent a "theocracy" as they so often claim?.

OnTheWayOut

The Watchtower Society is "Big Mother" (okay it was Big Brother)

27

Joe Namath did not win the Superbowl in 607BCE, and I can prove it.

by james_woods in

perhaps some will be completely bewildered by this title.

perhaps many will say - are you crazy, james?

what does it matter?.

OnTheWayOut

1975 is lost to the watchtower as a prophetic cause . Not only did they "never say it", (yeah, sure), but they have given up the 7000 year creative days it was based upon.

Current teaching and current publications have given up the 7000 year creative day, but I find no references that say it is wrong in WT pubs. Basically, unless I find something that admits the Governing Body and Fred Franz were "wrong," I say they have stuck with this theory and they just hope newer witnesses have forgotten about it. My mother remembers why 1975 did not bring the end. She can still state how "we don't know how long after Adam's creation was finished that Eve was created, and how long after that before she sinned (indicating that the creative day was finished when she sinned). The average rank and file have no clues about 7000 years to a single creative-day, but last time the WT addressed it, they were sticking to it.

Doctrine that are not constantly repeated are forgotten.

40

What Message is the GB Giving Mature Ones at Bethel With a Massive Lay Off?

by frankiespeakin in

jw
friends

i wonder how this is effecting the morale of those mature ones still at bethel?

the governing body is in effect telling every one there you are all just pieces of shit to us(gb) and we can get rid of you any time we want because you are all just pieces of shit to us.

OnTheWayOut

Yet, go to any district or circuit assembly and Bethel Service is still held out as being a worth while career for young ones.

Not really. The essence of your statement is true, but they absolutely avoided allowing young people to say they had a goal of Bethel service in any interviews or demonstrations. CO and DO do not include Bethel in goals for people to set. Otherwise, yes, it is still mentioned in a person's resume to make us respect a person.

17

When the Sunday speaker did not show up.....

by target in

jw
friends

i remember that happening a few times.

one sunday morning my son went up to a young elder and said "hey, i thought you were giving the talk today in xxx xxxxx.

the look of horror on the elder's face!

OnTheWayOut

Complicated story, I can tell it quick. I had been scheduled two months before a Sunday talk. I did not know anyone at the cong. Nobody called to make sure I was coming, but I went to the Kingdom Hall. I introduced myself to the PO. He said that the brother who had scheduled me was no longer the talk-coordinator, but the new PO (the guy in front of me) was doing it. Then he said he had gotten another brother on the schedule for today.

"Okay, then you don't need me, fine, no hard feelings."

"Well, that brother called 20 minutes ago and cancelled."

"Then you do need me, okay."

"Well, I called [Brother Popular Speaker] and he's on his way."

I knew that brother quite well, when he showed up, he asked if I could give the talk since I was obviously prepared and he wasn't. The PO said "I don't know this guy." The two of them actually had an arguement about it two minutes before the meeting starts. Brother Popular Speaker insisted that I was a good speaker, but I said (to both of them) that if this PO was that insistent, there was no way I would step on that platform.

I went back and gave a talk there, about a year later, and the PO approached afterward, saying "You did okay, we should have let you speak that time."