Posts by OnTheWayOut

29

I need your advice

by cookiemaster in

i need some advice.

actually my friend needs some advice.

a few years ago i moved about 50 km (30 miles) away from the nearest congo and have since tried to live a normal life.

OnTheWayOut

He's not so much after closure as much as he is for being left alone by JW's, preferably without getting DF'ed or DA'ing.

I may be late in responding. Sorry. The only correct answer for such a desire is to not meet with them. If cornered by surprise, say "I don't wish to discuss the matter." Many have had positive results from cleverly avoiding saying certain things to the elders and others have said the things they wanted to say and were left alone. But the typical result is disfellowshipping or saying the person disassociated himself. Just take away their power by saying "No thanks."

42

Please Focus on the Bible

by terrypike in

hi people, may i firstly thank those who have responded to to my intro article, i am replying to you all as a new topic because the direct messaging is not working for me at the moment so i can clarify my perspective on bible study.

yes there are many arguments that are put forward to demonstrate for example that the bible has been composed of numerous preexisting creation story's ect, my focus is to give the bible the same opportunity to defend itself as anyone reasonably expects if charged with some crime they are not guilty of.. i find for example the account of jesus response when questioned about the divorce certificate 'but it was not so in the beginning' confirms that moses allowed changes to be made to the original, that said consider also the religious traditions moses people had been exposed to, the story of the god enki who seduced even his own grandchildren and the well known incest of the egyptian royalty, given the genetic cost, are such practices any more right now than they were then?

communities that practice close relative marriages today are well documented for there higher risk of numerous health problems so how would you find moses on that basis, guilty or not guilty as jesus did because he understood why moses took the creation story's of other cultures and gave his people there own creation story that taught them to avoid the general pagan practice of incest.before looking any deeper at moses creation story may i also ask the question why does jesus knowing that god promised he would never again destroy the world by a flood as he did in noah's day say 'as in the days of noah ..the flood came and took them all away' so what did jesus actually mean mt 24:.

OnTheWayOut

If I am reading this right, Moses wrote a fairy-tale because the people needed a lesson and were not going to get there with the actual truth of creation, yet they wanted a creation story.

So are we still as backwards as the goat-herder former slaves of Egypt? We can't handle the truth? Shouldn't maybe God issue a retraction of Genesis and maybe leave a monolith on the moon with the actual story written on it (kind of like in 2001: A Space Odyssey) or is He saying "Sorry, Dave. I can't do that!" ? Or in our modern age where we are able to handle more, shouldn't God just put it in our minds how things came to be? Or something else besides a fairy-tale stolen from ignorant cultures to appease more ignorant people.

And whoever wrote the words accredited to Jesus that the world would never "again" be destroyed by flood was just guessing and will be ultimately right because science has amply demonstrated how the story could not have been true in the first place and it could never happen, not the first time and not a second time. I think most people can figure out that the worlds "As in the days ....took them all away" mean that God is going to destroy you all if you don't kiss his ass, not by flood but just the same. It's just a throwback to the God of Armies of the OT.

As long as we are there, if the creation story is a fairy tale stolen from other cultures to appease ignorant people and just teach an object lesson, couldn't the flood be a fairy tale with the same purpose?

48

Just woke up

by Doctor Who in

new to the site.

currently i am a ministerial servant and was told i was appointed to be an elder.

i told the brothers i was not ready for that assignment.

OnTheWayOut

done4good Btw, Doctor Who was cool as hell.

WAS?????? He's real and he's still "out there."
Anyway, congratulations on your rejecting the elder role and congratulations on waking up, whatever it took. Yes, holy spirit is not the least bit involved in deciding "WHO" should be an elder. (Sorry, couldn't resist saying that.)I can hear them now: "Shame on you for getting an education, but as long as you are done, help me out and you should be an elder."

29

I need your advice

by cookiemaster in

i need some advice.

actually my friend needs some advice.

a few years ago i moved about 50 km (30 miles) away from the nearest congo and have since tried to live a normal life.

OnTheWayOut

What would you advise?

First of all, it is not you asking what YOU should do. You can ask this other person if he wants your thoughts. Otherwise, even when we don't agree that someone should meet with two elders and tell them what he really thinks, it is irrelevant.

I fully no longer need the closure of telling off some judicial committee or the C.O. or whomever. I have found other ways to deal with it. But that's me. This guy may very well need just that.

8

CO Visit this week

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

so this week is our co visit, the first with the new arrangement where the second mid-week meeting has been deleted.

so only 1 "service talk" by the co.. this time, i decided to listen with a different focus.

listen like it was a sales meeting (i have been to many, and hated them all).. ok, so we go thru the obligatory theocratic ministry school, blah blah blah, so wonderful.

OnTheWayOut

Awesome post.
"Give us more money, more time." That gets old. Glad you and yours recognize it for what it is.

54

New "donation" arrangement begins to FAIL

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

so here we are, almost a year into the "new" congregation donation arrangement.

and its beginning, as was predicted, to fail miserably, and to have direct negative consequences on the poor sheep.. let me give you a little experience, directly from our congregation of about 80 publishers.

back in may, after reading the letter about the "new" arrangement, the elder body decided to "donate" the extra funds on hand to wt, as directed.

OnTheWayOut

Screw them. You can start a campaign to reduce the promised amount since it's so difficult. The worst they can do is dissolve the congregation if their guilt trip fails.

37

Advice needed on Crisis of Conscience

by cappytan in

so, some of you may have seen my thread from yesterday about my wife waking up.. we had further discussion yesterday evening after i sent her the pbs video on the abuse scandals plaguing the watchtower.

she was so furious and pissed off at wt hq.

apparently a close relative of her's was abused by an elder and the only reason he was reproved and removed as an elder was because he confessed.

OnTheWayOut

PDF with something of an intro written like the following: "We talked about whether a Witness could be disfellowshipped if they had personal thoughts against the grain but didn't cause divisions. I mentioned Ray Franz' story. Please just read up through chapter 1 (or wherever the details are) to see what I was saying. I am sure you can handle that without getting yourself further upset."

Virtually anyone who delves into CofC will get hooked and not stop after a chapter.

Edited to add: Then don't pester her about whether she read it or not.

30

Just Want To Be Heard

by dubstepped in

i've been lurking here for a while now, and i guess you could call me a fader.

i don't have hate in my heart for the organization that i spent most of my life in, but i have had an awakening.

luckily, so has my wife, and that way i don't feel so alone.

OnTheWayOut

A big welcome to you. While I don't share your not "have[ing] hate in [your] heart for the organization that [you] spent most of [your] life in," I also don't wish to insist that your pain should cause you to hate it. Just try to understand how some were burned terribly by their JW experience and recognize that some have their own reasons to hate Watchtower. The people can be wonderful, but misled. Some are jerks, but that is true everywhere. And I give a little extra consideration that the organization makes them bigger jerks or "well-intentioned" and "overzealous to the point of lunacy" as you put it. It's great that you have your wife awakening with you.

And as far as your loving "Jehovah," that alone won't ruffle the feathers of some. It's only when they preach here and insist we do the same that our feathers get ruffled. I know that's hard to read between the lines, but believers and unbelievers here can have common ground. As you say, "To each his or her own."

Thanks for the poem and for sharing your feelings with others here. That's something that can help- honest sharing of feelings.

8

Why does Bible present God as too imperfect?

by economy in

genesis 1:31 says: god saw all that he had made, and it was very good.

in other words, god rated his works as perfect..

if this is true, why his later works are too imperfect?

OnTheWayOut

Scriptures often present wrong picture of God, hence are not reliable guides to know God. Does this mean God is not interested in us or He doesn't even exist?

You were on the right path there for a bit.
There were different writers of the different stories that became scriptures. The writer of Genesis was even writing about a different God. Then the stories were edited for different reasons.

I think that the point of the edited Genesis was that God is a real S.O.B. and that Adam, Eve, everyone else should kiss his ass or face the consequences. I think that Numbers 15:32 demonstrates that same point, while much written about King David was probably true and demonstrates that "It's good to be king." Kings get away with a lot.

34

Wife is FOR SURE waking up

by cappytan in

jw
friends

well, this is a new development.

she broached the subject of ttatt tonight.

said i was right about the flood.