Posts by OnTheWayOut

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

I have no idea what you are saying, and I explained the difference. The likes of Perry are stuck in a similar situation to those of our former past- rigid thinking of how they must be correct and that is some path to salvation. Many who have escaped that thinking are willing to learn and, just as they had to adjust to Watchtower not having the truth, they are adapting as they discover more along their journey.

If you want to take this to some other level of debate about "what's the difference" and I don't know where you are going or what level we are talking about, I can't contribute to your lines here.

All I can say is that Perry wants to not "continuously weave concepts and beliefs into [his] identity" but wants to only find things that agree with his rigid concepts and beliefs that he has already woven. And I hope that there is still a Perry that wants us to break those rigid concepts.

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

OnTheWayOut

OTWO, this was well said IMHO.

Even though I am not one of his fellow Christians, I love Perry and want to help him wake up.

Would you not agree that like Perry, all of us are continuously weaving concepts and beliefs into our identity right this moment?

Sure. But I hoped I covered the thought that many of us strive to be open and flexible as to our identity being related to our beliefs.

Can we clearly see how we allow our minds to create a seemingly “real” identity out of abstract thoughts, concepts, beliefs and occurrences? And if so, what sees this? What must remain outside the story to see the story? What are we really?

That's for each one to answer. I think therefore I am. Am I a bag of liquid and solids- yes. But who I am is tied to those abstract thoughts.

19

Crap Shoot

by John Aquila in

what would have happen if i was not home when jehovahs witnesses knocked on my door?.

there was a group of us living in a small trailer in the mid 60s when and old pioneer brother knocked on our door and placed all kinds of books and magazines with us.

all of us took it seriously and studied and started attending the kingdom hall.

OnTheWayOut

And here's one for you. If my JW wife ever does leave the religion, she wouldn't want to hear how I wish I never.... She'll say that we never would have met and I never would have gotten her out of the JW's.

So "What if..." can get a person in trouble if they dwell on it too much.

19

Crap Shoot

by John Aquila in

what would have happen if i was not home when jehovahs witnesses knocked on my door?.

there was a group of us living in a small trailer in the mid 60s when and old pioneer brother knocked on our door and placed all kinds of books and magazines with us.

all of us took it seriously and studied and started attending the kingdom hall.

OnTheWayOut

Yours is a common theme of science fiction time travel- change the past and do you muck everything up or make it better? If someone kills Adolf Hitler's father before he meets Adolf Hitler's mother, then what?
Some believe that things even out. There was a Japanese factor to World War 2 and perhaps Germany would have found it's way to the axis side no matter whether Hitler took them there or not.

Perhaps, if you didn't answer that door that day, you would have been found another day.

Others (myself included) subscribe to radically different outcomes were it possible to change things. Although it is just philosophy and not mathematics, many serious scientists suggest that traveling back in time would not allow any change. They state that were someone to interfere with the past, then in all possibilities, they ALWAYS DID INTERFERE WITH THE PAST and nothing ever changed. They believe that any ability to tinker with time would eventually have been discovered and all of time would be unstable because of it and it would unravel to the point where none of our universe could exist anymore.

I know that's not really where you are going. But I feel it is important to consider that "What if...." is not really something we can dwell on for any serious progress. It is just a curiosity and nothing more.

146

Why I remain one of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Brother Jeramy in

allow me to begin with a clarification: when i say i am one of jehovah's witnesses, i don't mean that i am an advocate of the watchtower society or a devotee of some of its more controversial false teachings.

i mean that i am a christian, a disciple of jesus christ dedicated to jehovah god, and who remains in union with my brothers and sisters who make up the family of faith that globally refers to itself as jehovah's witnesses.

some totally understand the distinction between the family of brothers and sisters and the corporate organization known as the watchtower society (wts).

OnTheWayOut

I won't even bother to argue Christianity and the Bible with you. If you are so sure of your Christianity, you could find a better way to go about it than to stay with Jehovah's Witnesses.

To say that anything related to Watchtower is not all wrong is similar to saying that the torture taking place in Nazi concentration camps was not all wrong because a few valid medical results came out of it. The price was too high.

When it comes to the things you know are wrong, you have to remain silent to your brothers and sisters in order to remain among them.

If you think you are assigned to the territory of Jehovah's Witnesses by God and Jesus, well then.....good luck to you. But I bet your leaving that terrible religion behind would do more to help the brothers and sisters than your covert assignment.

35

Kingdom Hall Money Grab Was for Child Abuse Its Completely Clear

by thedepressedsoul in

if youve followed the news lately there are more and more child abuse cases popping up.

one lawyer said he has over 28 cases in the pipeline that are going to be coming out soon.

on december 1 st a new one just popped up.

OnTheWayOut

Regardless of why they stocked up on the cash, if they blow the money (on lawsuits, settlements, Faberge' eggs) it will run out. The arrangement with the congregations will not sustain itself for decades. While it it true that each congregation should be able to keep sending some money, the amounts will drop as members die off and are not replaced. Congregations will slowly dissolve. Many JW's don't give that much, as they feel they give so much time and effort, and that will continue, no matter the pressure to give more.

63

HELP - A Guide to Fade

by cognitivedizzy in

jw
friends

hey everybody, been here lurking for years now... i tired of all the gb 2.0 shit and need to fade successfullydo we have a guide, i am very tempted to go out with a bang, but i want my wife with me, she aint a strong witness and would happily trust me ... i love her a lot.

status as of now,,, read coc isocf, been through jw facts and am convinced this religion is bs, also a ms now :( damn.

OnTheWayOut

I was going to post the thread that Blondie already posted: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/34518/on-art-fading?page=1&size=20

I want to add that you have to quit as an MS. I haven't read any details, but the easiest way to quit is to move to another congregation, then don't accept the title if asked. The next way is to be too busy to do your MS job and miss meetings, turn in a string of 1-hour months or no-hours if you are really brave. When asked about it, tell them it bothers you that you did so bad and don't see yourself doing better soon with your "depression" or "overwhelming work" or whatever, and you want to resign. DON'T TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER.
What even helps- if you have seen a doctor, any doctor- even one on television, and you take any medication- even vitamins, you can say you have been depressed and have been seeing a doctor and are on medication. You feel it's best to stop being an MS. DON'T TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER.

Then just fade out from meetings.

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

OnTheWayOut

It is much easier for Perry to believe he understands who he is and that he has a purpose, to feel stable because his core belief system is stable. For liberals and progressives this is not really possible because our core beliefs are less rigid and more willing to adapt as new information and understanding presents itself. Which means that we are reshaping our understanding of who we are and how we relate to society, even if in small ways.

The protective walls around Perry's core beliefs are tall and rigid. They are his identity. He believes that salvation is dependent upon being correct on issues of faith. When confronted on a particular belief, he is not only confronted on an idea held to rigidly but he is feeling an attack on the very core of who he understands himself to be. Our questioning him causes him to be jolted about his beliefs just as questioning a Jehovah's Witness does. (I know, I know- I had to go there. Because, Perry, you may have left the dangerous mind-control cult but your thinking process is the same as it ever was.)

13

Will they jump of the building?

by John Aquila in

during the depression people committed suicide because everything they had invested in was gone overnight in an instant.

many people are very fragile creatures.

if by some freaking chance, (like enron, tiger woods, or the morning of august 1945 in hiroshima) the wts gets caught in a humongous scandal, say like links to human sex trafficking, (i can fantasize right) and the government steps in to investigate and finds them guilty and legally shuts them down permanently, will there be tons of suicides?

OnTheWayOut

It will burn out slowly, not suddenly be discovered in the midst of a crime like Enron. If something comes to shut it down suddenly, it will get a loyal underground following.

If I am wrong, and it is suddenly "not there" due to scandal or government, there will possibly be many suicides.

I think with the instant communications network, we can help them. Df'ed/DA'ed/Faded ones will be ready to help those that need to face reality.

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

OnTheWayOut

The answer is always "God did it." And he accuses us of escaping one prison to get into another.

Perry, you can find quacks who will say anything as an expert in a courtroom trial and you can find those same types if you search the internet to bolster your absolute refusal to even consider rejecting the young earth (or the life upon it) and the Bible.

Your thoughts, boiled down to the basics, are nothing new. In your mind, you cannot fathom that life got the way it is without a god, and you cannot fathom the universe itself being this way without a god. But the limitations are yours. Science is willing to ask the questions you are afraid to ask, like "Does it need a god? If it does, then who or what made the god? If it doesn't, let's see how that happened." Just because science cannot answer all the questions right now, you default to "God did it" and stop asking.

I know you want us to snap you out of this thinking and that is why you continue to offer junk science to this forum. You know it's junk science, but you just don't have the guts to admit it. You were wrong once and got out of that, and you are just afraid to find out you are wrong again. So many started down that road you are on. I dabbled in "Christianity just might be right" and "Maybe all religion is wrong, but God must be there." But the god of the Bible says to test him, and that is what I did. And he isn't there.