Posts by OnTheWayOut

32

I think the WT believed their own "growth" statements - Financial Trouble Thoughts

by thedepressedsoul in

we've all read, heard and have seen in the videos where jw's and their leaders talk about the "huge" growth that is taking place.

they've talked about how many kh they needed, branches etc... .

our co last visit he mentioned how quickly the organization is speeding up and the huge growth they are seeing.

OnTheWayOut

I totally agree with Morpheus. I also think that upper connected people (not necessary GB) are swinging funds to their family or buddies in land purchases, construction supplies, legal transactions, etc. on all this.

Money needs to be locked up in properties instead of liquid for reasons of lawsuits. But the new style for Kingdom Halls allows volunteers to pay for and build them and they will be easier to sell than the previous styles.

So let's review: WTS takes all the money, they look like they are spending it back into the membership, the membership continues to pay into the slush fund, buildings are ready to sell for at least no loss and probably a profit should the slush fund ever dry up in a particular area.

=======================================================

Edited to add:
Maybe they have even copied close enough, a style of small business that is popular enough to sell. Heck, maybe they even are in cahoots with some people ready to put small businesses in the exact same locations should buildings come available. Like HHGregg stores moved into closed Circuit City buildings.

86

Updated Chronological Timeline of the Great Tribulation -- after the New Light from July Watchtower

by FusionTheism in

the july 15, 2015 study watchtower article entitled "your deliverance is getting near", along with the jw broadcasting video entitled "gerrit losch: fortified by "the prophetic word," and chapter 21 of the god's kingdom rules!

book presented a large amount of new light or clarified understanding of the events of the great tribulation.. here i am presenting it in chronological order -- this is the governing body's updated chronological order of events for the time right before the great tribulation through armageddon:.

the final sealing of the anointed occurs just prior to the outbreak of the tribulation.

OnTheWayOut

The Final Sealing of the Anointed occurs just prior to the outbreak of the Tribulation. This Final Sealing is when the true Anointed on earth become "once saved, always saved." From this point on they cannot lose their salvation. In addition, the Anointed somehow know in their hearts when this Final Sealing takes place, therefore, they will know that the outbreak of the Tribulation is imminent.

This is just silly. By the time this takes place, 143,900 or more of these jokers should already be dead and in heaven, so what's to seal? It sounds more like a golden parachute for the cult leaders. "If anything we did comes into question, say we were already 'sealed' and shouldn't be questioned about it."

Now begins a short time of calm during the Great Tribulation. This period may last weeks, months, or perhaps even 4 years. Jehovah's Witnesses begin preaching the "Judgment Message" instead of the"Kingdom Good News." People who were formerly in Christendom or the other religious groups lie and hide the fact that they were ever religious. They claim they've always been atheists.

This sounds like a time factor for the leaders to pack their bags and transfer funds to their offshore accounts if the organization is falling apart.

22

The 1919 issue

by confused in

i am not a regular visitor to this site, every now and then then i get twisted up about something i come back lol.

i am sure this has been discussed many times so a link to another thread would be great or if someone has the patience to explain again please?

i have read the july 15 2013 wt many times but i simply don't understand the significance of 1919 from the bible.

OnTheWayOut

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1919-derived.php

This far out from bothering with their silly stuff, my head spins when I try to make sense of the general doctrine. From jwfacts, I sort of remember that 3.5 years (from Rev. 11:2,3) would pass from some point in 1914 where the temple was trampled for "42 months" and that meant that Christendom was sure it had defeated Watchtower. They fudge that 42 months to end it in June of 1918 when the Watchtower Board of Directors were arrested. But some time after this 42 months (apparently 9 months with no explanation of why it was that time period), Watchtower's Board of Directors was released from prison and that release indicates that Jesus chose these men as his faithful and discreet slave.

Regardless of how anyone tries to understand this, it is a play on 1914. They chose that year for Jesus invisible arrival (after changing it from 1874) and the things that Rutherford did some short years later had to be made to fit with their predictions. Rather than admit they were wrong, they piled on to their doctrine with even more specific details of how actual events were prophesied in Revelation.

Since there is so much fudging in that explanation, they apparently returned to it in 2013 and "simplified" it and seemed to ignore the fudging to simply say that, instead of 1918, Jesus started inspecting "and cleansing" the temple in 1914 to get us to 1919- HOW? I DON'T KNOW!

I think they actually expect people not to do the math so that they don't realize that starting at any point in 1914 and adding 3.5 years will never get you to any point in 1919. They were probably wrong and got letters pointing that out, so in the Nov. 15, 2014 WT, they added the 3.5 days (again, totally ambiguous length) back to the chart with the 3.5 years in order to arrive in 1919. Here's that explanation:

"How long did this inspection and cleansing take place. It extended from 1914 to the early part of 1919. This period of time includes both the 1,260 days (42 months) and the symbolic three and a half days referred to in Revelation chapter 11."Watchtower 2014 Nov 15 p.30

Trying to understand deeper than that is just a waste of my time. I will guess that all the specifics about the slave being arrested and vindicated was too much for people to remember and sounded weird, so they came out with a simple explanation that actually made no sense. Here's my paraphrase: Y'all know Jesus came in 1914 and chose the Watchtower as his spokespeople. Well, even though they were his chosen people, Jesus had to clean it up for a few years and then he appointed the Slave in 1919. Our doctrine is so steeped in these dates that we can't abandon them, so just learn to accept them.

10

"Watchtowers growth strains budgets"

by zebulon in

i live in orange county new york.

i posted once before a few weeks ago.

i am losing my family because of this org.

OnTheWayOut

Sorry to read your troubles, Zebulon.

It appears that, any short-term advantage to selling to Watchtower, winds up costing much more money for the local government. Granted, some of this property sat vacant, but once they gobble up hotels and apartment complexes and properties that were vacant, but would have eventually been filled with something, towns lose a tremendous tax base.

It's sad that a tax-exempt organization like Watchtower is not actually a non-profit religion that contributes to the local community in any measurable way except for selling the land then a slight boost in the local economy for tourists and traveling JW's.

29

"So you are an atheist. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i worked a different shift.

i knew the people i worked with, but not as well as i could have.. anyway, religion comes up.

one guy mentions in front of another that i wrote a book about my religious experience.

OnTheWayOut

Vidiot: Sometimes you just can't contain the crazy.

It's weird because he doesn't see it that way at all.

Mrs. Flip, yeah. I don't think it's a matter of knowing me. I think the problem is internal for this guy. But again, fine person to work with. I would just be careful about loaning him money to go into a business (or, for the ladies, marrying him).
DJS, I have hit like every now and again, but honestly do not notice the tally for any posters.
HMTM, thanks for your calm thought.

44

The JW religion has just cost me my marriage & my family life

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

after leaving the organisation 10 years ago i fought with everything i had to stay in my marriage and with my three children.

after a tumultuous number of years trying to maintain a happy family life while living in a divided home, it's finally over.

the religion is single handedly responsible for destroying my marriage and my family.

OnTheWayOut

I feel for you. So sorry to read this.

26

Watchtower Society now PROMOTES using Social Media / Networks?

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

have you seen this?.

http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/teenagers/whiteboard-animations/social-network-smart/#?insight.

OnTheWayOut

"If your parents allow you to have an account......"

WOW!!! That is radically different. I guess it's like this: More than 50% of adults and more than 96% of young ones don't listen to us anyway, so let's just pretend it was okay all along to be on social networks.

Also it sounds like a PSA, most of it is legit, sprinkled with jwism or scripture here and there, but mostly common sense about social networks.

Precisely.

34

No More Money!

by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

jw
friends

as of this june (i've already given my may contributions which are substantial) i am no longer giving money to support useless building projects that serve no good purpose.

i am no longer giving money at conventions or assemblies.

i am no longer giving money toward the circuit overseers upkeep.

OnTheWayOut

I just wanted to throw in my personal congratulations on deciding not to support them anymore.

Good for you.

24

Suggestions for Governing Body 2.0

by FusionTheism in

i realize many people on here are very angry at the watchtower society and/or governing body for various reasons, many of which are likely justified, at least to some extent.

i also can totally understand the cynicism and pessimism i see from certain ones regarding the leaders of the society.. i think one thing that's often forgotten or overlooked, however, is the fact that members of the governing body who've been "in the truth" for 30, 40, 50, 60 years, probably truly believe in this organization.

in my opinion, it's more likely that they believe what they teach instead of being liars who are intentionally deceiving everyone.

OnTheWayOut

In my opinion, it's more likely that they believe what they teach instead of being liars who are intentionally deceiving everyone.

I agree with everything Magnum says on page 2.

I imagine that GB 1.0 was closer to what you describe in the opening post- victims of their own teachings. But since then, the GB has been all about making money and keeping the corporation solvent.

A well-intentioned honest GB would abandon the blood doctrine no matter the cost. They would address pedophile victims no matter the cost. Even the Catholic Church, granted they were forced, had done better on that. (No, I won't defend the RCC- just saying that WTS is not doing the right thing.)

The reasons for GB 2.0 saying anything close to "We were wrong" (and you would have to show me the quote that actually says that before I believe it) is that they want to change directions. They see the future for this massive printing corporation and they see the likes of the LDS and Scientology. LDS has a larger membership and seems more stable with it's donations. Scientology has a tiny membership but is property rich and the leadership live like kings from the donations. GB 2.0 is going to become something else, something they have been learning from other cults. The membership of the GB are embracing the spotlight on jw. tv and enjoying the attention. They are probably building better quarters for themselves and passing more money to their inner-circle friends and family from construction projects.

They also deserve credit for telling people to focus more on Jesus and the main points of His parables instead of getting lost worrying about details. I also like that they tell Witnesses that pretty much anything written before 2000 may be incorrect.

Watch out for the hammer to drop. Whatever new information they have coming, it won't fit with the old. It probably won't fit with the scriptures. It's going to be so radical, similar to the way "overlapping generation" was so radical, that they are just preparing their members for it. All they know is that the old ways are not working for retention and donations, so here comes something completely different.

No credit will go to them for anything seemingly honest or less burdensome. It's all a smokescreen.

29

"So you are an atheist. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i worked a different shift.

i knew the people i worked with, but not as well as i could have.. anyway, religion comes up.

one guy mentions in front of another that i wrote a book about my religious experience.

OnTheWayOut

TTATTelder, it was quite entertaining, not just for me but for others who were listening. The others knew that Ignorance's knowledge of religion and morals would be torn to shreds.

nicolaou, yes. But I wouldn't want him thinking he was right about atheists killing for advantage.

galaxie, me too. Me too.

smiddy, but we agreed that Adam and Eve didn't exist. Just a story. I know, I know- a new can of worms to open.

Onager, yes. I am not lumping in all of one group in a certain way. Actually, Ignorance is a nice guy. While I don't think he would just murder someone, his answers reveal his own morality in sharp contrast with any "rules" from the Bible. But he's a nice guy other than that he probably cheats on his wife and taxes and justifies taking things that don't belong to him.

nicolaou, Witness my Fury: thanks for sharing, but too much information. We don't need to know about your dick.

DJS, maybe you are right. I won't pass judgement that atheists are MORE likely to do the right thing because it is the right thing. But they are highly likely to do the right thing.

Page 2:

Morpheus, he's a good worker. Probably good at figuring out how to accomplish something. Just not good at thinking things through on a higher plane.

OneEyedJoe, I have to agree about the expectation that one will be forgiven. As long as you believe and bow down, Sky Daddy will forgive.

confuzzlediam, it is exactly like what you describe. Thanks for sharing. I don't think I made Ignorance think too much when we were done.

Flipper, I have read of you being the most patient person there is....well, next to me. There was no ill-intent to his questions. That probably helped. He just wanted to understand, but I was helping him see that he doesn't even understand any of what he already thinks he understands.

Viviane, I know. He didn't know the first thing about his Bible.

John Aquila, your picture says it all. I felt like that was what it was like.