Posts by OnTheWayOut

22

Not very zealous as before

by anointed1 in

what i sense from the conversations of my family members and relatives who are jws is that at least some jws are not as zealous before with regard to the major subjects such as “sanctification of god’s name,” “vindication of his sovereignty” etc.

they begin to feel that such subjects are imaginary issues.. this is a good sign.

it shows people are worried about their own day-to-day worries.

OnTheWayOut

Despite my firm and confirmed disbelief, I will sort of echo what Perry said and state that the general message from the New Testament is that Jesus came to save sinners- save them from God the Father.

The various ways that people believe that can be argued about.

But I only mention that because Jehovah's Witnesses are tired getting into arguments about that. They have morphed into "Jehovah loves us, Jesus loves us. Christianity is wrong. The end is near." The average JW today really doesn't have a better understanding than that. Sure, older ones have recollections of Freddy Franz writings and teachings from Revelation and they retain that stuff enough to "just know" that Watchtower is (or at least WAS) right.

Being a JW is about being "right" while everyone else is "wrong." So your average JW today just knows that patriotism, holidays, sex outside of marriage, getting drunk, celebrity 'worship, all that stuff of the world is just wrong. They don't even bother to understand what is "right." They just know Watchtower is right.

It's pretty easy to get members to believe so much is wrong about "the world" and by the time they get lost in doctrines, they just go along because Watchtower was right about morality and the world.

40

What finally helped you to peek behind the curtain

by UnshackleTheChains in

i'm interested in finding out what it was that finally enabled you to open your eyes to the real truth of watchtower.

what started me thinking, was the societys very own book...' 'revelation..it's grand climax at hand'.

i found that book farcicle.

OnTheWayOut

It's a long story. Basically, "generation" always bothered me. But I didn't peek behind the curtain.

Double standards finally got to me. A friend was involved in looking at pornography and masturbation and was disfellowshipped. I knew that they generally said that elders involved could say it happened only a few times and they stopped, then they can even remain elders and nobody is the wiser.

On top of that, I was asked to go down to Hurricane Katrina Relief (months after the storm) and then the Regional Building Committee (RBC) cancelled me at the last minute, saying they had "no more room on the bus unless I was a plumber, electrician, or carpenter." They would not let me drive down and join saying "We don't do it that way, all things according to order and procedure." Then later, I find out that the same bus held the wife of the RBC chairman and his little kids, and they did no plumbing, electrical work, carpentry. They had a huge picnic on the last day instead of doing more work that day. So much bullshit. I was going to break my back and help people.

So finally, I said that research for JW talks made me pretty much an expert at "googling" everything- even without Google before it existed. So I said I would google "Jehovah's Witnesses" and figure out what's wrong and take a look at every single link no matter how I feel about it. That was the beginning of the end for me.

9

A little stock-taking on the JW org. 2017

by Half banana in

the governing body of jws claim without any justification that they alone are holders of a sacred key to divine knowledge and that their history indicates appointment by the almighty creator with the job of giving the world of their privileged information, especially on the time of the biblical “last days.” .

ok they use bible illustrations to explain this with the idea that the “master” has “domestics” who are fed by them but this is always a matter in contention.

they think the illustration is important but can never get a handle on who is who and when it is.

OnTheWayOut

Watchtower establishes that their version of applying the Bible, particularly Revelation, is a fact. Those facts prove to the flock that Watchtower was appointed by God Almighty.

The calendar continues to force Watchtower to dissect their version of applying the Bible until nothing is left of their original version that established their facts and demonstrated their appointment.

So they stick with the thinnest of connections to their original version by references to 1914 and the undeniable fact that World War I broke out that year. Despite the fact that Watchtower never said this was what would happen in 1914, they have managed to keep that going.

Their tie to their original version has stretched and is now just a thread. That "generation" has passed away and the new light about "overlapping" just isn't holding people. Doomsday cults need a doomsday in sight. Before they lose all their members, I see them coming out with a new Doomsday calendar that will place Armageddon far enough into the future that all the current GB members will be dead or ancient by the time it arrives.

I think they have seriously considered 2034 (120 years since 1914 just like 120 years declared to Noah before the flood) but have not been able to do that all at once, gauging reaction to changes they bring about. They may need to buy a little more time and connect the 120 years to something past 1914. We will see.

10

This Is Why We Call It the Borg, And Why You Can Still Find Your Voice

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

one voice can be stronger than a thousand voices.

your mind is independent now.

with its own unique identity.

OnTheWayOut

Any newbies, BORG originally meant "Brooklyn ORGanization" and was used because it fit so well in that Jehovah's Witnesses assimilate people and say that you can never leave, and leaving is so traumatic.

I don't hear the reference so much anymore. So many younger ex-JW's are online that might not have really seen Star Trek episodes with the Borg. And I don't know if we will keep the reference so strongly with Watchtower leaving Brooklyn. It still fits so well, otherwise.

I have found so many excellent "Star Trek" references for various stages of my road out of the BORG. This one will be added to my mental library.

41

Witnesses really hate it when you appear to leave.

by schnell in

i have a certain customer, whom we will call sally.

i know sally only by face and only through work.

i am a truck driver on a local dedicated route, and i often deliver to her work.

OnTheWayOut

To be fair, I really hate it when they appear to "STAY" but I don't wear that look on my face.

55

Why so few XJWs online?

by StephaneLaliberte in

not too long ago, i posted a topic where i pointed out that there are about 1 million xjws alive right now.

that number only represented the disfellowshipped ones... didn't account for those who had become publishers and left or anyone else who got hurt by that group by proxy.

so, why are there so few of them online?

OnTheWayOut

So, why are there so few of them online?

I beg to differ. Yes, there are "so few of them online" if you just compare them to those not online.
I haven't really looked in quite awhile, but there are many many many more ex-Mormons and they barely made a presence online compared to ex-JW's.

It would seem that, compared to just about any religious group, ex-JW's are the largest group of former members. (That is not a researched FACT, just an observance by me.)

I think there are a higher percentage within the JW's that were as JWDaughter said: "We were schmucks and/or took it all way too seriously." Taking it so seriously made us need to find solidarity. Or even if some among our group didn't take it so seriously, we left behind loved ones that do take it so seriously, and we seek solidarity from others that understand.

39

Trinity...cross...Does it matter?

by NikL in

jw
friends

i've been thinking about this for a while.. did jesus diee on a cross?

does it really matter?

it doesn't change anything that i can see.. is god a trinity?

OnTheWayOut

What do you think?

We haven't even established that a man, let alone "god incarnate" existed at all. And if he did, whether a story about his death and "crucifixion," written long long after his existence was anything close to true. Even if such a man existed and died in such a way, did he have "commands" for us, and should we actually obey such commands? Why?

I think even saying "we will never have the complete picture of spiritual things as long as we are physical beings" indicates that you are a person enjoying the mythical beliefs that faith delivers about living past death. When people enjoy such mythical beliefs, details like what cave, what shroud, what commands, what wooden post, yadda yadda all become very important. But for those that don't believe in Santa Claus, we don't need to know if Rudolf will be needed this year.

23

The goal in all this 1918/1919 change?

by careful in

as some have recently posted here, there does seem to be a shift going on in their self-interpretation(s) of what happened in 1918 and 1919. if we can look past all the details that emphasize the poor thinking and poor wording (or contradictions/just plain craziness/insignificance) of their message, something bigger seems to be afoot.

they appear to be attempting to redefine the meanings for some "prophetic" scriptures in light of themselves.

1. they are trying to somehow fill the void they have themselves created from their rejecting freddie franz's (ff) type–anti-type postulations.

OnTheWayOut

All changes are calendar and/or money driven.

Cult members need to be calendar driven in order to stay in cult mode- worried about impending DOOMSDAY.

40

What if Fred Franz had never existed?

by Magnum in

what if fred franz had never existed?.

those of you who weren’t around in the days when he was the oracle of jwdom or who at least aren’t familiar with the deeper publications he was responsible for probably won’t be able to comprehend the significance of the question.

i believe he influenced jwdom greatly, and the whole feel of jwdom would have been different without him.. during the 60’s, 70’s, & 80’s (not sure about 50’s), he was considered to be almost superhuman by some (a lot?

OnTheWayOut

I typed a long answer about this, but deleted it. It didn't happen, so my speculations are just that.

It seems all these cults need a crazy oracle at one point. Mormons had Joseph Smith, but not really any good ones after that. Scientology had L. Ron Hubbard, but not really any good ones after that. Watchtower had C.T. Russell, then tried to extend their crazy oracle by replacing him with Freddy and his crazy predictions.

So they probably would have found someone else with similar crazy talk.

But then, yeah- no Ray Franz on the GB, no CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE. Who's to say what the nephew of the different oracle would have been like in aiding or hurting the cause?

43

2520-607 = 1913

by schnell in

jw
friends

i love math, i love calendars, and somehow, this always gets me.. 2520 - 607 = 1913. not 1914.. 2520 - 606 = 1914. from what i understand, russell realized this.

he had previously used 606 bc, of course, but then he switched it to 607 bc.

i know there was something about no zero year, so it actually should be less one, correct?.

OnTheWayOut

From Year 607 BCE to 1 CE is 607 years
From Year 1 CE to 1914 CE is 1913 years
-----------------

Together adds up to 2520 years

That's their simplified math. But really, work back from whatever date you want and you can come up with whatever Bible math rule you want to create a cult date of significance. Look at 1975. All fuzzy math from the Bible and cult people applying it anyway that suits them. I find it hard to believe they forgot at one point that there was no year ZERO. It's almost like they don't really have "spirit-direction" and are just making shit up.