Posts by OnTheWayOut

24

We deserve to die

by elfgoblin in

at the meeting today, we were reading the watchtower and this elder apologetically said to such a degree in regards to romans 5:12 that "we humans are not worthy of any mercy from jehovah.

we shouldn't even have free will because we can't possibly do anything good enough to please jehovah.

we don't even deserve life because of sin.

OnTheWayOut

life is to short:
.....It has always seemed like God set us up to fail.
In all honestly why would God do this to us if he was a God of love. He has the power to stop all the suffering of all people on this planet .....

I have to agree and add.
Wiki says "The Brothers Karamazov is a passionate philosophical novel set in 19th-century Russia, that enters deeply into the ethical debates of God, free will, and morality. "

I agree with the idea from this book that if God is teaching us a lesson or testing us or whatever, the price is too high. When children are born to suffer or to die, the price is too high.

From other philosophies, I have thought about a god creating subjects to kneel and grovel for him, to wail and pray endlessly, to constantly claim "We're not worthy." (Sorry Wayne and Garth.) And then this creator gives his subjects free will and we are told we should not use it.

Strike me dead anytime, God. Interesting reading (shorter and easier than THE BROTHERS KARAMAZOV) would be JOB: A COMEDY OF JUSTICE by Robert Heinlein, or CAPTAIN STORMFIELD'S VISIT TO HEAVEN by Mark Twain.

22

If you had the power ....

by Landy in

...would you choose to ban the jw religion?.

if you wouldn't ban them what, if any, changes would you force upon them?.

OnTheWayOut

Coming right to banning them would feed their persecution complex- their thought that Satan is against them and soon Jehovah will make things right.

If I had more of an idea of what "If you had the power...." means, I would have a better answer.

If I had the power.....
I would reveal (in a highly entertaining way) what Science knows and why ALL religions are a scam.
Religion would consider my broadcasts to be propaganda against them (and they would be right).
Hopefully, people would not want to be part of religion anymore.
I would tax religion.
I would do the benevolent things that some religion tries to accomplish-
I would tax the rich and give to the poor.
I would do everything to aid children to grow up healthy and educated.

78

The handling of child abuse allegations

by Landy in

there's a lot of criticism surrounding the jw's handling of chiild abuse within their ranks with a lot of it being well deserved.

but i'm interested to know how people on here think child abuse allegations should be handled.

there's a few scenarios below, the first couple are easy then it gets a bit more complex.

OnTheWayOut

I am not going to read all the wonderful answers so that I can give a gut reaction answer first.

A huge problem in Watchtower is saying that they are in a spiritual paradise and having minors engage in the recruiting work.

Clearly, a suggestion that minors never go in the recruiting work would not fly through the governing body. But certainly, it should be well stated that there are bad elements all around, even in the congregations (weeds among the wheat). And minors should only work with their relatives, no exceptions, no dropping them off to work with others, not even with the elders (really should be especially not with elders).

Mandatory reporting should be followed. When parents won't go to police, elders should explain that mandatory reporting protects other children. Adults that don't want to face this from their past should know that elders still must report for the safety of others. If local law prohibits elders from revealing (alledged) victim names, then they report w/o the names.

If experts interview victims and perpetrators, congregations can disfellowship based on such interviews or court outcomes. They may legally be bound in many jurisdictions not to announce names. They should at least remind the congregation never to leave their child in the care of other congregatoin members without being sure about them.

I know you are trying to push these examples to the point where there is no proper way to "handle" them. There are often difficult situations, but Watchtower rules make matters worse and even start at a problem.

Victims should never have to face the perpetrator under the direction of elders. Any such action with authorities is only done with social experts.

20

"I'm Perfect, You're Doomed" . Tales from a Jehovah's Witness Upbringing

by stuckinarut2 in

hey all,.

we have purchased a bunch of great books recently, and one of them is from author kyria abrahams called "i'm perfect, you're doomed".

i'm only 5 chapters in at this stage, but i just have to share that this is a great read!.

OnTheWayOut

"I'M PERFECT, YOU'RE DOOMED" inspired me to write my own story. Similar method of mocking what I believed, completely different story. I loved it.

Ray Franz and Carl Jonsson covered doctrine so well. Steve Hassan covered general cult stuff so well. But to round out a library, an ex-JW really needs to laugh at his own former beliefs. Kyria helped me do that.

22

Not very zealous as before

by anointed1 in

what i sense from the conversations of my family members and relatives who are jws is that at least some jws are not as zealous before with regard to the major subjects such as “sanctification of god’s name,” “vindication of his sovereignty” etc.

they begin to feel that such subjects are imaginary issues.. this is a good sign.

it shows people are worried about their own day-to-day worries.

OnTheWayOut

Despite my firm and confirmed disbelief, I will sort of echo what Perry said and state that the general message from the New Testament is that Jesus came to save sinners- save them from God the Father.

The various ways that people believe that can be argued about.

But I only mention that because Jehovah's Witnesses are tired getting into arguments about that. They have morphed into "Jehovah loves us, Jesus loves us. Christianity is wrong. The end is near." The average JW today really doesn't have a better understanding than that. Sure, older ones have recollections of Freddy Franz writings and teachings from Revelation and they retain that stuff enough to "just know" that Watchtower is (or at least WAS) right.

Being a JW is about being "right" while everyone else is "wrong." So your average JW today just knows that patriotism, holidays, sex outside of marriage, getting drunk, celebrity 'worship, all that stuff of the world is just wrong. They don't even bother to understand what is "right." They just know Watchtower is right.

It's pretty easy to get members to believe so much is wrong about "the world" and by the time they get lost in doctrines, they just go along because Watchtower was right about morality and the world.

40

What finally helped you to peek behind the curtain

by UnshackleTheChains in

i'm interested in finding out what it was that finally enabled you to open your eyes to the real truth of watchtower.

what started me thinking, was the societys very own book...' 'revelation..it's grand climax at hand'.

i found that book farcicle.

OnTheWayOut

It's a long story. Basically, "generation" always bothered me. But I didn't peek behind the curtain.

Double standards finally got to me. A friend was involved in looking at pornography and masturbation and was disfellowshipped. I knew that they generally said that elders involved could say it happened only a few times and they stopped, then they can even remain elders and nobody is the wiser.

On top of that, I was asked to go down to Hurricane Katrina Relief (months after the storm) and then the Regional Building Committee (RBC) cancelled me at the last minute, saying they had "no more room on the bus unless I was a plumber, electrician, or carpenter." They would not let me drive down and join saying "We don't do it that way, all things according to order and procedure." Then later, I find out that the same bus held the wife of the RBC chairman and his little kids, and they did no plumbing, electrical work, carpentry. They had a huge picnic on the last day instead of doing more work that day. So much bullshit. I was going to break my back and help people.

So finally, I said that research for JW talks made me pretty much an expert at "googling" everything- even without Google before it existed. So I said I would google "Jehovah's Witnesses" and figure out what's wrong and take a look at every single link no matter how I feel about it. That was the beginning of the end for me.

9

A little stock-taking on the JW org. 2017

by Half banana in

the governing body of jws claim without any justification that they alone are holders of a sacred key to divine knowledge and that their history indicates appointment by the almighty creator with the job of giving the world of their privileged information, especially on the time of the biblical “last days.” .

ok they use bible illustrations to explain this with the idea that the “master” has “domestics” who are fed by them but this is always a matter in contention.

they think the illustration is important but can never get a handle on who is who and when it is.

OnTheWayOut

Watchtower establishes that their version of applying the Bible, particularly Revelation, is a fact. Those facts prove to the flock that Watchtower was appointed by God Almighty.

The calendar continues to force Watchtower to dissect their version of applying the Bible until nothing is left of their original version that established their facts and demonstrated their appointment.

So they stick with the thinnest of connections to their original version by references to 1914 and the undeniable fact that World War I broke out that year. Despite the fact that Watchtower never said this was what would happen in 1914, they have managed to keep that going.

Their tie to their original version has stretched and is now just a thread. That "generation" has passed away and the new light about "overlapping" just isn't holding people. Doomsday cults need a doomsday in sight. Before they lose all their members, I see them coming out with a new Doomsday calendar that will place Armageddon far enough into the future that all the current GB members will be dead or ancient by the time it arrives.

I think they have seriously considered 2034 (120 years since 1914 just like 120 years declared to Noah before the flood) but have not been able to do that all at once, gauging reaction to changes they bring about. They may need to buy a little more time and connect the 120 years to something past 1914. We will see.

10

This Is Why We Call It the Borg, And Why You Can Still Find Your Voice

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

one voice can be stronger than a thousand voices.

your mind is independent now.

with its own unique identity.

OnTheWayOut

Any newbies, BORG originally meant "Brooklyn ORGanization" and was used because it fit so well in that Jehovah's Witnesses assimilate people and say that you can never leave, and leaving is so traumatic.

I don't hear the reference so much anymore. So many younger ex-JW's are online that might not have really seen Star Trek episodes with the Borg. And I don't know if we will keep the reference so strongly with Watchtower leaving Brooklyn. It still fits so well, otherwise.

I have found so many excellent "Star Trek" references for various stages of my road out of the BORG. This one will be added to my mental library.

41

Witnesses really hate it when you appear to leave.

by schnell in

i have a certain customer, whom we will call sally.

i know sally only by face and only through work.

i am a truck driver on a local dedicated route, and i often deliver to her work.

OnTheWayOut

To be fair, I really hate it when they appear to "STAY" but I don't wear that look on my face.

55

Why so few XJWs online?

by StephaneLaliberte in

not too long ago, i posted a topic where i pointed out that there are about 1 million xjws alive right now.

that number only represented the disfellowshipped ones... didn't account for those who had become publishers and left or anyone else who got hurt by that group by proxy.

so, why are there so few of them online?

OnTheWayOut

So, why are there so few of them online?

I beg to differ. Yes, there are "so few of them online" if you just compare them to those not online.
I haven't really looked in quite awhile, but there are many many many more ex-Mormons and they barely made a presence online compared to ex-JW's.

It would seem that, compared to just about any religious group, ex-JW's are the largest group of former members. (That is not a researched FACT, just an observance by me.)

I think there are a higher percentage within the JW's that were as JWDaughter said: "We were schmucks and/or took it all way too seriously." Taking it so seriously made us need to find solidarity. Or even if some among our group didn't take it so seriously, we left behind loved ones that do take it so seriously, and we seek solidarity from others that understand.