Posts by OnTheWayOut

20

Is the Earth really that great?

by DATA-DOG in

i enjoy watching nature documentaries; david attenborough being my favorite host and narrator.

that being said, i’ve come to the conclusion that contrary to xianity’s teaching, the earth is not “perfectly placed/designed for life.” .

when you actually observe the world at large, without blinders, it’s a wonder that life even exists.

OnTheWayOut

Science does not yet know if Earth is extremely unique or just another planet in the Green Zone, a condition of habitability for a planet based on mostly whether liquid water could be found there, but taking other factors into consideration.

Even when a planet is habitable, life had to start there (or be transplanted there). And its a long set of circumstances that leads from primordial soup to oceans and forests and the like. You need the spark of life to develop according to the available conditions.

Earth benefits from its large moon and medium star and its axis and time of rotation and all kinds of other factors.

Time will tell, but most likely not in our lifetimes, if life is so resilient as to succeed in completely different environments or if there are other planets similar enough where the spark took off. With so many stars in just our galaxy and so many galaxies, I'm betting on a bit of both (resilience of life and other earth-like plsnets) making us not so unique.

28

I don't get why some point to the no tolerance for gays and subjugation of women as a JW thing.

by blownaway in

some churches have taken the step to allow gays, women instructing men ect.

but its not a jw thing.

its a bible thing.

OnTheWayOut

Xanthippe: Many Christians, and I'm not one of them btw being an atheist, try to accept the Bible as the work of imperfect men guided by God.

They're not fundamentalists so don't believe every word literally. They try to bring Christianity up to date with compassion. It's not the way I wanted to go but I can see where they're coming from.

While I might feel that the Bible doesn't allow for such a view of itself, because it declares itself "God's Word," that does seem like a natural evolution of Christian belief.

Eastern relgion has a history of gods and godesses and beliefs and rituals, and has evovled to people feeling free to reject and accept what parts they want. Many are diwn to accepting wisdom and ritual or meditation alone, but have dismissed the supernatural aspect. So I guess Christians might do the same.

But the Bible is just so loaded with ammunition for various hatreds and for the belittling of women. When groups still have to debate how far to accept 'the word,' better to scrap it in my opinion.

32

Apostate - what does the word mean to you?

by Tallon in

over a period of time i got to thinking - what does the word 'apostate' mean to me.

having given it some thought, this is my view;.

the org has given the word its own definition and basically use it to demonise people and consider them pariahs.. however, the jw meaning of 'apostate' is a mere word and only has power if recognised as such.

OnTheWayOut

To Watchtower, an apostate abandons their so-called "true worship" and shares their thoughts on how and why they've abandoned it.

The dictionary definition is close: One who abandons a religious or political belief or principle.

The difference is that there is no judgement in the real definition.

I embrace the label. I did indeed abandon the religion. It's not as dramatic as homosexuals embracing the negative intentions of the word "queer" and calling it positive, but it would be similar.

48

Healing & Rebuilding Your Life - Feedback Wanted

by jp1692 in

i have been invited to speak at an international cultic studies association workshop this fall.

i could use your help in focusing on my presentation subject.. these workshops are for former members of any cult or other high-control, authoritarian group, not just jehovah's witnesses.

last year, i spoke at one of their larger conferences in europe.

OnTheWayOut

I think many need to hear that it may be important to seek professional help, that if they do not do this for whatever their reason, at least follow up on self-help via reading books and perhaps finding other former members to vent with.

6

The Samuel Herd story may 8 wt mag

by waton in

i talked to this simple man once in florida, where racial tension linger.

i can see why a sympathetic worker with a proven record as pioneer would end up in the top ranks, the hope being, that his effectiveness would rub off on the enterprise.

it shows that whoever runs wt does not count on the governing body to really run the enterprise.

OnTheWayOut

I don't have any details other than my opinion on this, but Ted Jaracz loaded the GB with "yes-men" to do his bidding over the years when he had enough pull. So with his passing and the passing of many others, the whole thing is loaded with incapable men, relying on someone else to direct them.

7

Evangelicals and Unbelievers

by Boredposter in

i have been noticing a distinct difference in reaction to those who leave christianity among evangelicals and jehovah's witnesses.

when i left jwism there wasn't much effort to correct me.

i know this is not a surprise to any of you.

OnTheWayOut

While "Christianity" is a broad term, most of it is still not at all like the dangerous mind control that Jehovah's Witnesses are. So of course the way they react would be different.

54

Explain why you are happy if you believe there is no afterlife vs when you joined JW's

by Bad_Wolf in

one thing that has intrigued me are so many who have left, who are wholly convinced everything in existence is merely by chance now, also claim they wouldn't want to live forever, and perfectly fine if this is the only life.

now, i would understand that if you were raised into the religion.

i was raised into it.

OnTheWayOut

I joined JW's as an adult with childhood exposure to it. So I bought into the "everlasting-life" thing for awhile.

Opening post says: "The reality you are embracing now is the worst case scenario of when you were in it, eternal death. But if you joined it of your own accord and not raised in it, why did you want eternal life then and now say you would never want it?"

One huge problem with your statement is that the reality of our futures does not depend on what we believe. It is what it actually is. I bought into their promise but then realized it isn't true. So regardless of what another person thinks I am "embracing," it has little to do with what will actually happen. I learned not only that the Watchtower's promises are lies, but that people have been using the Bible to promote lies since the Bible was written.

You can say I don't know what the future after death is. For an absolute certainty, I cannot prove that I do know it. But we live and we die, we exist no more. If that is wrong, then some megalomaniac demanding my licking his boots during this life to grant me part of that afterlife while he is practicing his high level neglect of mankind, it's just not worth it to me.

42

Liberal vs. Democrat in the U.S.A.

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

it seems that many believe that a liberal in the usa must be a democrat, pretty much following the party core teachings and some even think it means approving the party history of, during the 19th century, supporting or tolerated slavery and opposing civil rights reforms after the civil war.

some even insist that a liberal loves anything and everything obama did..

balderdash!!.

OnTheWayOut

Great post, Searril. Great thoughts.

42

Liberal vs. Democrat in the U.S.A.

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

it seems that many believe that a liberal in the usa must be a democrat, pretty much following the party core teachings and some even think it means approving the party history of, during the 19th century, supporting or tolerated slavery and opposing civil rights reforms after the civil war.

some even insist that a liberal loves anything and everything obama did..

balderdash!!.

OnTheWayOut

Too many points then counterpoints in this thread for me to address them all.

One main thing I was trying to say was that we are all free of the Watchtower library telling us what our belief is on each issue. Many of us are further free from some preachers interpreting the Bible for us to tell us how to feel about various peoples and acts they call sins.

Really- no matter how much you hate Hilary or Donald or gun control or taxing everyone to pay for programs, we need civility. I don't hate conservative posters or simply bash whatever they say. Oh, I've poked the bear here and there and expect it in return on issues of politics and religion.

The unwritten rule in general internet debate is that the first person to bring Hitler into the debate generally lost that debate (although he doesn't think so).

In ExJW issues, a similar thing would be comparing one's adversary to Watchtower leadership. I did that on purpose to stroke people here to respond. It wasn't necessary.

I don't wish any ill-will here. I am not attempting to anger people. Just wanted people to know that there are varying points of view.

42

Liberal vs. Democrat in the U.S.A.

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

it seems that many believe that a liberal in the usa must be a democrat, pretty much following the party core teachings and some even think it means approving the party history of, during the 19th century, supporting or tolerated slavery and opposing civil rights reforms after the civil war.

some even insist that a liberal loves anything and everything obama did..

balderdash!!.

OnTheWayOut

Simon, I hate the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. They divide the US and polarize people. Each party is so loaded with a rich history of some types of bigotry and prejudices. I am often a fiscal conservative and believe in responsible gun ownership. (But to be fair to my liberal side, I believe in gun permits and required training and strict enforcement of gun laws upon criminals.) I think that spending so much effort attacking the politics of those that disagree on these things fits right into their agendas. Both the Democrats and the Republicans steal us blind because we are arguing over far right and left issues and don't remove the policies that make them richer in office.

I am a liberal in the sense that government can be used to solve many problems. I am not going to debate them one-by-one, but I feel the need for an Environmental Protection Agency, a Food and Drug Administration and other protective agencies- granted, they need to be adjusted as any bureaucracy departments would need be.

But the greed of the wealthy would overrun the little guys without governmental protections. Without governmental protections, homosexuals would mostly all be hanged as they used to hang African Americans. People would work under unsafe conditions and get laid off when they got hurt because of those same conditions.

I believe in socialist policies on schools and healthcare and an equalizing in both areas.

I get that such things have to be paid for and that might mean that people do with less. I am not opposed to people paying with their own dime for extra education and healthcare above and beyond a reasonable standard for all. I believe every American should get the benefits that Congress votes for itself. I doubt we would all be able to get what they get now, so they would probably get less and have to pay more of their own for more.

To be fair to those that say such things will make people lazy, I believe that all should be working. If you receive government benefits as far as housing and food subsidies go, the government will find suitable work for you. If you don't like it, you are welcome to go out on your own.

Socialism has not worked in the world because true socialism has not existed. In current socialisms, some people are more "equal" than others.

Mainly, I am a liberal because I believe that laws and budgets should put people first. But I don't support abolishing the death penalty and I do believe that Affirmative Action should be phased out in the workplace and replaced with leveling the playing field at the school level.