Posts by OnTheWayOut

30

Kingdom Hall loans Cancelled? Lurkers...please read

by ToesUp in

jw
friends

i hope that writing this, there will be some lurkers that i can shake.. if you have not listened to mays tv broadcast, please do.

it may wake some up.. note @ around 21-22 minutes into the broadcast lett brings up the the kingdom halls/assembly hall loans have been cancelled and the congregation can now send in what they can afford.

wow...how many banks would do that?.

OnTheWayOut

This is just further dangerous cult-mind control where they say left is right and up is down.

The members are publishers despite the fact that they just distribute what a publishing company makes.
The leaders are the "slave" despite them not serving the members, but having the members serve them.
The loans are forgiven despite the obligation to pay at least the same amount for a longer term.

And now, members are told that if your congregation falls short on the monthly obligation, all is forgiven. But the elders are told "Shame on you and make it up as soon as possible."

11

is it more likely to be the men or women who leave first?

by sowhatnow in

jw
friends

i was just pondering the other day, is it more likely that a man will leave a religion, or a woman?

is there a way to know if the men on the site outnumber the women or vice versa as to who found out ttat first and left.. im going to suggest men.

basically because men in general, do not like to be told what to do.

OnTheWayOut

I see tons of women on this forum and at meetups. I don't know.

I will go with men only because women marry a JW and are afraid to leave. But prior to marriage or after divorce, I imagine it's 50/50. Perhaps a bit more women after divorce as the men may either gain position or quickly find a "new" wife among JW's (or even both) and the women may lose status and/or not be able to find another JW husband.

12

JWs are the only ones going door to door and restoring God's name.

by TTWSYF in

the bible says so much about so many things.

is there an organization that does everything the bible says?

OnTheWayOut

Not even Jehovah's Witnesses do everything the Bible says. THEY emphasize going door-to-door. The Bible doesn't say that is the mark of God's followers. It says that the group back then included that, plus if you read some thoughts on that emphasis alone, like Ray Franz's books, you will find that the Christians back then may have been meeting "in private homes" instead of going "door-to-door." The Bible indicates that Christians should preach the good news, and I see street corner shouters with their microphones or signs doing it more closely to the way it was done in the first century. But shouting the word on television or radio fulfills that requirement also.

Some will say that the requirements for Christians are streamlined because Jesus freed them from "the law." Well then, many do the following:

1. Read and Study your Bible - Psalm 119:11, 105

2. Have a daily prayer life - 1 Thessalonians 5:17

3. Attend a good Bible believing church - Hebrews 10:24-25

4. Give money to the Lord's work - 2 Corinthians 8:11-12; Deuteronomy 16:17

5. Give yourself to some phase of the Lord's work - Romans 12:1

6. Refuse to partake in the old sins which God has delivered you from - Romans 12:2

7. Get to know Christ because too many Christians know about Him but they do not know Him intimately - Matthew 11:28-30

That seems to be all that really is left for Christians as to requirements. There is plenty more about putting away anger and desire and lying and obscene talk and much more, but there is no firm standard as to how one would measure another person on those things, so each person would have to determine how he has lived up to all that. And the Bible leaves enough room for individuality, so that each person may decide which church to attend and how much money to give.

I don't see it as that simple, but I am just one person with his thoughts. It also seems to me that each person must look to see if the church he attends has pastors that qualify according to the Bible at 1Timothy 3:1-13, 2Timothy 2:1-13, Titus 1:5-9, Acts 6:1-6, and despite being released from the Law, scriptures like Exodus 18:21-22 still apply for the pastors.

But then you must decide how to really know if the pastors qualify or if the scriptures credited to Paul are authentic or added by the church later. I bail out at Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 15:14: If Christ had not been raised, your faith is futile..... but you may not allow that to be your guide if you want to be a Biblical Christian.

If you want to remain a Biblical Christian, then you would subscribe to the notion that all people are sinners, and that all people fall short in their worship as Romans 3:23 states. You have to forgive and make allowances and recognize that no group nor any individual lives up to the high standards of the Bible.

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

OnTheWayOut

How is it any more ridiculous than, something made people out of dust and kills them for eating fruit. Gets pissed off at snakes and takes away their legs, floods the whole world and sends his son on a kamikaze mission to calm himself down, and then expect us to kiss his murderous ass?

Yeah, the thing is- even if you want to believe in a god who started it all, arriving at the total crap of the Bible with the Garden and the flood and the exodus and the guy nailed to a cross, is such a huge leap. You can't justify the second one just because you insist on the first one.

The universe did NOT have a creation event, it always existed. The
Big Bang was always there and this started the universe.
Time, without it nothing must have always existed, it can not have a
beginning because either would create a moment in time. Without
time it would be meaningless to ask its existence and that of the universe.
When the universe was created it was simply there all the time, existing
in the same way as nothing, as it always has.

Yes, but that is a little advanced for the likes of Perry because it isn't written in the Bible.

130

Atheist Miracles

by Perry in

jw
friends

i reworded a variation of a common critique of atheists to my own liking.

no, i do not hate atheists, i love them!

they keep me from getting bored.

OnTheWayOut

I love you, Perry. Truly. And I always see you jumping in here and then not responding very much to valid counterpoints. And it has become crystal clear to me that you are truly hoping that some of us atheists can talk some sense into you, can shake you hard enough to snap you out of your Jesus beliefs.

I guess you just can't walk away on your own. In many ways, you are stuck in your own dangerous mind-control beliefs. I don't know what religious group is feeding your mind. I think it is mostly coming from your own mind and I doubt you are in a dangerous group like Westboro Baptists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDdiCYTK160

28

Are J.W's obsesed with their statis??

by karter in

jw
friends

i went to a j.w funeral and saw some people i used to hang out with many years ago and they all seemed to want to tell me if they or any member of their family were elders,m.s's,pioneers ect.. karter..

OnTheWayOut

I moved 1000 miles to relocate and had to make my final move 6 months after the first one to where I finally settled. My new congregation had the letter of introduction and the body of elders knew I was an elder 6 months prior. Status meant nothing to me, so I generally never went around saying "Hey, I was an elder."

So this Sunday speaker, who didn't know anyone in the congregation, comes down from the platform after the final prayer and starts his round of handshakes. I was sitting near the front and he gets to me and I say the typical hello with my name. He goes right to "Are you one of the elders?" "No." "Are you a servant?" "Um, no." No big deal to me, and if he asked, I would have explained how I moved recently, but it came off as if that was so important to him. He goes on, "Well, brother. You work on that and I am sure you can reach out blah blah blah....Can you point me to one of the elders?" I pointed and he was gone.

It's everything to many pioneers and elders and others. It's sickening.

19

Did Ray Franz ever address his thoughts on atheism?

by JWINQUESTION in

does anybody know if ray franz ever addressed his thoughts on atheism?

from what i've read, he was a diligent reader of the bible.

if anybody has any info and sources about this, it is highly appreciated.

OnTheWayOut

I haven't found any thoughts on atheism nor recall reading any from Ray Franz. But Ray was not trying to establish a following. He wrote a couple books that had his thoughts that needed to get out. It would seem he remained very Christian. But he didn't preach anything when he left. He turned his energy toward his crisis of conscience and did an excellent job.

On a similar vein, Ray Franz helped many people start down a new path, which consisted of thinking and examining the Watchtower for themselves. While I won't directly say that Ray caused people to lose faith in Watchtower and come to the conclusion that religion or even belief in God was not necessary, Ray was an important part of many people's spiritual journey that took them to atheism or somewhere else.

34

A Taxi Driver Gave Me 4 Magazines This Morning

by Tempest in a Teacup in

jw
friends

as we had reached my destination, i paid him and was getting down when he handed me something.

then i saw it was the wt and awake.

i just had the time to say: "oh, okay, thank you!

OnTheWayOut

I would negative witness to him.
"Why are you giving me these?"
[Something to read, I'm on a mission from God, whatever]
"Well, you could have preached to me on the way. Give me my tip back (if already in his hand). If you are just counting time and weren't ready to actually discuss your subject with me, you don't get a tip for your field service."

8

Legally can WT forcibly remove money from KH bank accounts with out the signees permission

by joe134cd in

i just wondered if the wtbts could legally remove the money from the congregation accounts with out the signees permission.

are the bank accounts deemed society property with the change of realestate ownership into the societies name.

legally could they get away with it if the situation arose , and if not how could they manipulate the situation so they could.

OnTheWayOut

Once something like Menlo Park or Bonham, TX (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/197640/real-story-on-why-watchtower-society-lost-kingdom-hall-bonham-texas?page=1) happens, Watchtower changes some things. Those were so rare anyway. Most all of the members of a particular group are going to stay with Watchtower and override some "crazy independent elders."

I hope some radical things can happen that prove that wrong. I really do. Some scandal in high places maybe.

But "they" appoint the leaders locally and organizationally. It would be hard to get a majority of the elders to do something against them most anywhere. It is possible that it is brewing right now, though. There may have been some holdout congregation that kept it's money from Watchtower and haven't been found out yet. But keep in mind that Watchtower sends the C.O. who goes over the books and money is the most important one to cover. They can't hide it, so that congregation, if it exists, is defying openly or embezzling. It would be fun to see it.

8

Legally can WT forcibly remove money from KH bank accounts with out the signees permission

by joe134cd in

i just wondered if the wtbts could legally remove the money from the congregation accounts with out the signees permission.

are the bank accounts deemed society property with the change of realestate ownership into the societies name.

legally could they get away with it if the situation arose , and if not how could they manipulate the situation so they could.

OnTheWayOut

Under most arrangements established before they wanted ALL the money, NO. They could not just take the money legally. But it's one big trusting family. It's for the trusted leaders to do the best with it. Plus, the local kiss-asses could be removed or demoted if they don't go along, then some new kiss-ass would send the money.