Pardon me for asking.
If you don't want to say what happened, go take a long walk on a short pier.
my wife is pleasant and easy to get along with.
she is also helpful to many.
lately, however, there is a jw sister who some are curious about has befreinded my wife.
Pardon me for asking.
If you don't want to say what happened, go take a long walk on a short pier.
i want you to see how fake people are who pretend their open-minded, dr. erhman try's to reason with someone whose mind is totally made up.
the topic is whether there was a man named jesus and paul, the infidel atheist get's owned because he shows his true colors!.
1. when would you tell this fool he stupid or willfully ignoring the facts?.
Notice that he starts with "I've written an entire book on what he [Jesus] said and did, ....(laughter) and for him to say and do anything, he had to exist."
So Bart starts from a biased point of view with some credibility to lose. That's similar to priests and JW's not being willing to entertain the idea that they could be wrong in their world view because they are invested in it.
He then dismisses anyone who writes a book suggesting that Jesus doesn't exist as not a serious scholar, but just someone who wants to make money writing a sensationalist story. Doesn't that sound familiar too?
There are good debaters and Bart is one of them. This host is not bad, but is not up at all on the subject, he is just a guy who hears what people say. If a financial expert disagrees with Steve Harvey about the financial stability of the dollar and an expert on botany disagrees with Ellen Degeneres about how to water cactuses, does that prove that the experts are correct? NO, it proves that they know much more about the subject than the talk show hosts they talk with.
Evidence for Jesus outside of the doctrinal writings is very slim. He may or may not have existed. It is highly possible that he is a composite of others.
Bart admits he has no personal investment in "Paul." That seems to indicate that he admits to his personal investment in Jesus. On the subject of Paul, it is highly more established that he did exist and wrote some of what is credited to him. But reading what experts are sure of, Paul's Jesus is a very mythical figure and Paul does not help to establish a real person in a real timeline. Even if Paul's existence is established, using anything he did or wrote to help establish Jesus would be like using the writings of the miraculous events surrounding Siddhartha Gautama to prove these things happened in the establishing of the Buddha.
so, many of y'all know bits and pieces of my story of waking up, but i thought it might be nice to have it all in one place.. i was baptized at 11, auxiliary pioneered every summer, regular pioneer at 17, ministerial servant by 19, then went to bethel for a year.. i always had minor doubts from time to time, but nothing serious.
always dismissed doubts and decided to "just have faith.".
after leaving bethel, i was never really firing on all cylinders "spiritually speaking.
Thanks for your story. As far as 607BCE goes, Watchtower concocted a theory and 607 is necessary for their theory to work. I know people could say their theory is wrong, but they pile on to their theory to say that "the Bible indicates" that so many things that are part of their theory are givens. They further belittle any evidence that Watchtower's theory is wrong with quick dismissals, yet they never look at their own theory with a thought of dismissing it. Their way of asserting things makes the average member walk away saying "The Bible must be true" instead of "Watchtower must be true."
JWfacts is awesome. I am glad Tony steered you to real research.
my wife is pleasant and easy to get along with.
she is also helpful to many.
lately, however, there is a jw sister who some are curious about has befreinded my wife.
Well......
You got our attention.
What did you do?
Really, we would appreciate knowing what happened.
if crisis of conscience is one of the top watchtower doctrine killers, what is the coc of theism?.
i'd like to read a book, or other material that does the best job logically arguing for atheism.. i've not read any darwin, however it is my assumption that his focus is primarily on evolution, is this correct?
if you were to recommend one book or a few pieces of reading material, which do the best job of defending atheism, what would they be?.
Don't take this the wrong way. There's not a single book that just wins people over to atheism. JW's might believe that Satan inspires some books. It's a path of (for lack of a better term) enlightenment as one observes the comparison between belief and skepticism. For me, being soured by the God I thought I knew was the biggest help toward enlightenment. The Bible is the best book to read to learn about God and how such a maniacal overlord just cannot exist. But some others that help:
"The God Delusion" http://www.amazon.com/The-God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618918248
Also by Dawkins: "The Magic of Reality: How We Know What's Really True" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1451675046/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687562&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0618918248&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HV1Z9YQ97KJ1KSRYGD6
Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Spell-Religion-Natural-Phenomenon/dp/0143038338/ref=pd_sim_14_16?ie=UTF8&refRID=0HV1Z9YQ97KJ1KSRYGD6
Really, a great place to start is to follow the links at the bottom of each page of those links for "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" and enjoy your own path of enlightenment and choose what you want to read.
my wife is pleasant and easy to get along with.
she is also helpful to many.
lately, however, there is a jw sister who some are curious about has befreinded my wife.
You start with your title, "What do you think I should do?" You make a strange statement: "...looks like a Lesbian, sounds like a Lesbian, and lately is starting to feel like a Lesbian."
Then, some give a serious answer in the same kind of tone, and you blast them:
Ignorance: When a fly walks on your shoulders, do you just leave it there and make it feel like home?
James: We are not worried about catching anything, and we are not prudish. We don't want a reason to worry about it.
I know you are seriously asking for help, but YOU DID ASK and you started out with the goofy tone about lesbians, so lighten up.
And seriously, the suggestion to cock block her by sitting in the second seat from the end where your wife will sit on the end is a very good one.
it has been 2 and a half years since my departure from the religion.
i was told by my parents from the start that i would never speak to them until i returned to jehovah dog.
a few months later they told people they hoped i died before the end came, then all of this culminating in them telling my inactive / fading sister that they don't consider me a child anymore and they have given me up to satan.
Not that I would answer, but if I did...I would say "Don't worry. Your Jehovah has definitely removed any motherly love you claimed you had."
I give allowance for family being in a dangerous mind control cult. But some are too far wrapped up in it. My condolences on the loss of family to Watchtower.
ok, lets assume that god created everything as is, with no evolution involved.
this is what jw's teach based on a singular vague verse in genesis.
made according to their types.
Yes, "Creation" alone demonstrates the lack of a loving creator.
I tend to mention birth defects and disease among children, but creation attacking a puppy is also proof enough.
It doesn't prove there is no god, but amply proves that if there was a god, he's a real ball-buster.
over the years, i have seen a change in heart with the country i grew up in and the general view of what they perceive as how everyone should view things in relation to morality.
a strictly religious country for centuries now forever changed within a short number of years.
i have also seen the viewpoint on this site gradually change in many ways.
I fully believe that Gods word was inspired and that his moral standards are for our (mankind's) benefit....absolutely. Wake up people
Wake up yourself.
The Bible says that women are property and should be silent in church and obey their husbands. The Bible says it’s okay to beat your slaves as long as you don’t kill them. The Bible says to kill your children if they talk back to you. The Bible orders you to kill witches.
At no point in the Bible is there a coherent, systematic break down of morality. The 10 Commandments is the closest it gets, and even those (on a whole) do more damage than good, and the rest of the commandments following those 10 are maniacal and contradict other commandments elsewhere in the Bible.
Using the Bible as a moral code will leave you confused, self-loathing, illogical and fanatical.
so i am walking down the street in a spanish neighborhood and two men, obviously jw's, are standing between houses writing furiously on their tiny slips.
i am nearly a block away approaching and they just kept writing the whole time i walked up.
i finally arrive to pass them and they are still both writing.