dubla

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Posts by dubla

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  72

  Oops, is that WMD we just Found in Iraq????????

  by Leolaia in

  1. social
  2. current

  http://www.reuters.com/newsarticle.jhtml?type=topnews&storyid=5166415

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  dubla

  xander-

  You'll have to link an article for that one.

  well, i searched for the link, and couldnt find the actual "4 liters" number anywhere except this commentary page from the washington times...maybe i read it locally. there was a fox news article quoting defense department officials as saying there was "2 to 5 liters" in the shell....but i realize providing a link to a fox news article here is tantamount to providing a link to nationalenquirer.com, so i wont bother with that one, lol.

  http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20040521-084242-3106r.htm\

  All the ones I've read said all the discovered shells so far were empty.

  while searching, i didnt find any articles claiming that the artilery shell that exploded in may was "empty"....could you provide a link on that? this cnn article explains how the two chemicals didnt mix properly....and thus why no one was seriously injured. btw, do you know what the lethal dose of sarin is? its .5 milligrams. i would think, even according to the wording of the cnn article, that there was much more than .5 milligrams present...and if it wouldve been mixed properly, it no doubt couldve caused a whole lot of damage.

  http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/25/iraq.main/index.html

  No, actually, they really DIDN'T mark them. Iraq has been buying chemical weapons for a very long time, and the presence of a 'modern', 'professional' military in the country is a relatively modern thing. They knew they were buying chemical weapons, but had no method of identifying them other than "that pile over there is the chemical weapons".

  i think you might be confused about what the recent find was. the binary shell was an experimental type, not "bought" by iraq, but actually created by saddams regime. heres a u.n. document showing that iraq declared ALL (that means 100%) of these 30 shells (i think either 14 or 16 were binary) were accounted for/destroyed.

  http://www.un.org/Depts/unscom/s99-94.htm

  heres a clip on the subject from the cnn article above(bold/italic mine):

  In 1990, Iraq admitted to the United Nations that it had built some sarin gas artillery shells -- prototypes that it insisted had all been destroyed during testing.

  When the shell was found near the Baghdad Airport, U.S. Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the artillery round was of an old style that Saddam Hussein's regime had declared it no longer possessed after the Persian Gulf War.

  now, once again, either saddam specifically lied about the shells, or he misplaced them with the marmalade....which is more plausible, really? and if he truly didnt know where he put them, why specifically declare them destroyed?

  aa
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  145

  Invitation To Americans To Find Fault With The British..

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  i thought we ought to even things up a little... go for it!.

  no obscenities please.

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  dubla

  abaddon-
  

  I don't think that you commented on this thread previously, so maybe with you it is indifference. Although you're not indifferent enough to not read the thread, so...

  yeah, i was definitely curious.......and to be honest, when i first saw the title i thought to myself "i bet there won't really be any "bashing" or real "fault finding" on here...probably just a bunch of jokes", which is exactly what i found......reason being, we americans (in general) just dont get the same kick out of it.

  i think the majority of americans on the board could care less to point out the problems with the british legal system, for example, which was where my "indifference" comment came from. sure, we might read the discussions and chime in from time to time (in reality, there are very few discussions about the british to begin with), but when it comes down to it, we just arent as obsessed with the flaws of others.....we have enough problems here to worry about without spending our energy worrying and complaining about the shortcomings of every other country. i understand its a bit of a pastime for the british......(eman claims it may be due to increased travel).......so maybe its just a cultural thing.
  

  Yes. Vote and lobby.

  these are obvious choices, but they only get one individual so far. my state, for example, hasnt voted "democrat" since 1960 (i believe).....not saying that my vote doesnt count, but in reality it would take a monumental change of heart in the area to go along with my kerry vote to change the outcome......if i were to vote kerry of course.

  and where did ANY English person in this thread claim 'we are the greatest' dubla?

  i never said they did....what i said was there are sweeping generalizations and implications of "we are better" on this forum. if youd really like me to collect a sample list, i can do that. let me know...itll be a bit of a time consuming project, but i am willing.

  If you don't like that, maybe you should stop living in a superpower. Head south, I hear Mexico's lovely...

  there was a time in my life i actually considered that.....the weather is beautiful, and the worries are few.

  aa
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  72

  Oops, is that WMD we just Found in Iraq????????

  by Leolaia in

  1. social
  2. current

  http://www.reuters.com/newsarticle.jhtml?type=topnews&storyid=5166415

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  dubla

  simon-

  obviously neither administration has made a big deal about any of the findings....it doesnt look like they are going to jump all over one or a dozen shells and declare them the smoking gun. i was merely replying to your comment that there was only "one" shell....obviously there are over a dozen turning up now, so it stands to reason that there will be more. how many more will be found? who knows? how many are hidden? if there were 12 unaccounted for, do you think there may have been more? how many will have to be found before you have to quit brushing them off as meaningless? its all opinion i guess.....even one proves saddam didnt declare what he had (or even scarier, didnt know what he had done with them all....misplaced them with the marmalade)...obviously theres already a lot more than one.

  aa
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  72

  Oops, is that WMD we just Found in Iraq????????

  by Leolaia in

  1. social
  2. current

  http://www.reuters.com/newsarticle.jhtml?type=topnews&storyid=5166415

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  dubla

  Not to confuse ya with more details, but these weapons were NEVER reported as was required...

  exactly.

  aa
• 
  72

  Oops, is that WMD we just Found in Iraq????????

  by Leolaia in

  1. social
  2. current

  http://www.reuters.com/newsarticle.jhtml?type=topnews&storyid=5166415

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  dubla

  xander-

  Does anyone REALLY think Saddam was going to have every single artillery round or missile in his entire inventory tested to see if it was carrying chemical weapons?

  why would saddam have to have them tested? are you saying they bought random shells from other countries without knowing the contents? didnt iraq fill the shells to begin with? so....they just didnt mark them all, kind of like a surprise package for later?

  Although, it does appear Iraq actually managed to destroy or use up its "stockpiles" - all that is left are random shells here and there that are EMPTY ANYWAY.
  

  Sure, they contained Sarin at ONE point. They don't now - so it must have been destroyed some time in the past. 'Trace amounts of' anything in an artillery round is a good indicator that while it might have at one time been filled with it, it isn't now.

  the first one found had 4 liters of sarin in it......hardly "trace amounts". do your homework before you rant.

  And it blows up near US troops....and a couple people are treated for minor exposure? Is it not pretty obvious the shell was EMPTY?

  it wasnt empty, it just wasnt detonated properly. the sarin was a binary mixture, meaning two inert chemicals have to mix when the shell is fired.....it just wasnt effective as a roadside bomb. again, do your homework please.

  All we are finding now are empty shells that, golly, look like they had their contents destroyed!

  nope, definitely not destroyed...the contents are there, now its just a matter of hoping no one over there knows what to do with the remaining shells......it doesnt appear they have a clue, thankfully.

  aa
• 
  72

  Oops, is that WMD we just Found in Iraq????????

  by Leolaia in

  1. social
  2. current

  http://www.reuters.com/newsarticle.jhtml?type=topnews&storyid=5166415

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  dubla

  corvin-

  An elder came barging into my house to use my pc and opened my desk drawer to look for a pencil and found one single cigarrette I had overlooked getting rid of. I did not even know it was there and had no intention of smoking it. I was df'd based on that single long forgotten smokey-treat . . . Damning evidence that I was a smoker?

  what if the elder had found one cigarette in your drawer, one in your jacket pocket, and twelve more in a pack hidden under your couch pillows? would that be more damning? how many cigarettes would he have to find before he could consider it "evidence" that you were hiding your habit?

  aa
• 
  72

  Oops, is that WMD we just Found in Iraq????????

  by Leolaia in

  1. social
  2. current

  http://www.reuters.com/newsarticle.jhtml?type=topnews&storyid=5166415

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  dubla

  This is *one* shell.

  apparently there are at least a dozen more turning up now......but im SURE this is the last of it. after all, iraq is a pretty small country with very few hiding places.

  link courtesy of coldred:

  http://www.boston.com/dailynews/183/world/Warheads_containing_nerve_agen:.shtml

  aa
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  145

  Invitation To Americans To Find Fault With The British..

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i thought we ought to even things up a little... go for it!.

  no obscenities please.

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  dubla

  eman-
  

  Dubla,

  No offence intended. I remember someone saying here that only 17% of Americans held passports, now I'm reading one of Michael Moore's books and he says it's 5%.

  i dont know the accurate statstics on passports in the u.s., but it would make sense logistically that the u.k. percentage would be much, much higher. traveling from country to country here isnt as easy or inexpensive as just hopping on a train. the fact is, we can travel quite extensively (read: an entire lifetime) without leaving the country, which isnt necessarily true of you. i can get in my car today and drive south for 6 hours, and never even leave my state. throw in the fact that the countries we can travel to by land dont require a passport, and i would definitely guess the percentage of passport owners would be quite a bit lower than yours. now, to compare the percentage of british who travel overseas to the percentage of americans who travel overseas would be a bit more difficult......im sure there are no accurate statistics on that.

  bottom line on the travel issue anyhow, is that you claimed the reason your countrymen have such an obsession with the shortcomings of others is due to your increased travel.......and back to my response, i hope that no matter how much i travel in my lifetime, i never get obsessed with such fruitless endeavors.......so as far as the "who travels more" issue, no offense taken at all.

  aa
• 
  145

  Invitation To Americans To Find Fault With The British..

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i thought we ought to even things up a little... go for it!.

  no obscenities please.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  dubla

  six-
  

  Face the criticism, own it, and where it is accurate, fix it.

  where would that be exactly? most of the criticism is leveled on our politicians (obviously not us personally)....so what can one do to "fix it", other than vote? write to our senators?

  as far as other "criticisms" go, i was talking of emans criticism of "american unwillingness" to travel. you see, thats a gross generalization, not a helpful criticism.....to "fix it", i suppose i could travel abroad, which i have already done, and will continue to do so. how else should i "own it" as you say? your logic seems to be off base here.

  aa
• 
  145

  Invitation To Americans To Find Fault With The British..

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i thought we ought to even things up a little... go for it!.

  no obscenities please.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  dubla

  six-

  your comment:

  As an American, I personally can see no harm, and much gain, in knowing how America is viewed by people from other countries.

  is much different than the idea s.p. and i were discussing, which s.p. repeated here, and worded it very nicely:

  Constant criticism mixed in with over-generalization just doesn't work well.

  theres certainly nothing wrong with knowing what others think of america....its the constant "we are better than you" that gets sickening.

  simon-

  I think if anyone tries to ram "we are better" or "we are the greatest" down people's throats it:
  

  a) makes peolpe want to gag

  thats exactly what i was saying! sounds like you are getting it now.

  aa