Yes, sad really.
And who'd have guessed it'd be her?
I would have put a load of money on the old Quenn-mum being next.
Sadly, that can't be that far off either.
Duncan.
Duncan
JoinedPosts by Duncan
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23
Princess Margaret Has Died
by Englishman inat 8.30 gmt today, buckingham palace announced that the queen's younger sister, princess margaret had died as the result of a fourth stroke.. englishman.. truth exists;only falsehood has to be invented.
-georges braque
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9
Memories of Hillary - Part I
by Duncan inupfront disclaimer: .
i know its entitled memories of hillary, but an awful lot of this post is, in fact, all about me and our hero doesnt actually get much of a look-in in this part.
but i need to tell the story right, and it starts with me.
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Duncan
Upfront disclaimer:
I know it’s entitled “Memories of Hillary”, but an awful lot of this post is, in fact, all about me – and our hero doesn’t actually get much of a look-in in this part. But I need to tell the story right, and it starts with me. Besides - it’s only fair. Hillary took up tons of room talking about himself on the thread supposed to be about me. :-)
********Late last year I received an e-mail – via a famous UK schoolfriends-reunion website – from someone who had attended the same school as me. The interesting thing about this was that, at school, I had never known him. We only became friends after I had left. It was Hillary_Step, with whom I hadn’t spoken in almost twenty years.
I first became aware of Hillary during the course of that first summer that I pioneered. It was a glorious, long hot summer that year, and I was just coming to terms with the enormity of the change I had wrought in my life, leaving school the way I did.
Some background, then…
Unlike Hillary I had never been “ a lone wolf... who makes friends with difficulty”, my natural inclinations always led me to being one-of-the-lads, a real gang member. In any social group I’ve ever been part of, I tended to be one of the jokers, “the funny one”, even if I say so myself. I guess it comes from wanting to fit in, a desire for approval. You can see where this might cause a problem to a fine young Witness - “But, to be pop – u - lar, nev - er do toil!” and all that.
In fact, I was, I think, a fairly popular member of class, not an obviously dysfunctional, nerdy, wierdo misfit, like so many down the hall. In truth, I think I was probably a pretty good advert for the movement
And I was seriously into The Truth. I mean, I really really believed it all – the whole thing - with a passion, and was entirely unembarrassed about telling schoolfriends all about it. You might recall in a recent post how I remarked about how annoyed I got upon overhearing my mother tell someone that “Duncan still believes it’s the truth, but is too wrapped up in the World these days…” – well, of course, you do hear Witnesses say the exact opposite thing too, after you’ve left them: “Oh, I don’t believe that Duncan ever REALLY had the truth in him” – and, if anything, that makes me even madder. I KNOW what I felt back then.
I should never have left school when I did.
I’m not talking about what a waste it was, about how I missed out on an education and a good job – I took care of that stuff later on, and I did subsequently okay, work-wise.
I mean, if the Watchtower had actually got any sense, they’d had left people like me where they were – a tolerably-high achieving student, popular and well-regarded – influential, even. I hosted class debates on Faith, the Bible, Evolution, and so on (the teachers obviously thought I was pretty good value at that kind of thing); I started a bible study with a close friend, James, and brought him along to the meetings. There was even something called “Scripture Union” – a school society for Bible-reading - I accepted their invitation one evening, and I went along and put them straight, too.
At school, despite being a Witness, I really fitted in. And, while I was at school, I was a pretty good Witness.
But, of course, at every turn I was encouraged down the hall to leave, to pioneer. The End was so close! And not only this – I actually got so I was longing to leave – I just couldn’t wait. How come?
Looking back now, I guess I was pretty stressed-out with the effort of being a Witness (I put in good hours, and was used a lot on the platform, TMS parts, and all those school-witnessing experiences) on top of the work needed to keep up grades in a pretty high-achieving competitive grammar school.
I have a son now, similar age to me back then, who is also at grammar school. A much better student than I ever was too, diligent and hard working, he won the school prize last year for top-achieving boy in the year. The reason I mention him here is to state that I know just how much support and help it takes from parents to keep a lad like him performing at that level - encouragement, taking an interest, help with homework, research, help with presentations and so on and so on.
Back then, for me, I had not only an absence of support, but positive discouragement. Apart from the fact that none of my family had any conception of the demands placed upon a grammar school student (all the other siblings having attended the local-estate secondary school), when I ever did get out some books to study at home, my mum would be around with “ Oh, Duncan – studying the wisdom of men! You know it’s all foolishness in the eyes of Jehovah! Do something else – read up for the bookstudy!” It sounds nuts, I know, but I’m sure there are others here who have had similar experiences.
I just re-read that last paragraph, and I’m sorry if it sounds like I’m simply going for sympathy here – “Oh, Duncan, poor you!” I’m only trying to explain my circumstances at the time, and why I was so looking for an escape from the treadmill of constant schoolwork on top of witness-work. Also, the schoolwork did seem genuinely pointless.
I saw pioneering as not just “an important Life-saving Work in this Time of the End” but also as a release into a more spiritual life, a higher plane, a christian , tranquil stress-free way of life.
So, I left school, earliest legal age I could. Outraged all my teachers, and peers. Endured endless sessions with various concerned teachers, and the Headmaster, all regarded by me as “persecution” for my faith, and all retold down the hall on a Tuesday night as faith-strengthening experiences. At this point, I had no idea who Hillary_Step was, the knowledge he had of my situation or the interest he took in it. He had yet to show up down the hall.
So, now I was a Pioneer! In Jehovah’s full time service!
And, of course, now getting closely involved with Jehovah’s Organisation, that’s when my faith all started going wrong.
And this is when Hillary starts coming in and starts to be important in my life.
Hillary, I promise, in the next post, you’ll have a larger part.
Duncan.
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Duncan - Part III - Into Thin Hair
by hillary_step inthe 70s passed by in a haze of bad fashions and flaccid watchtower excess.
i tried hard to be bright-boy, thinking somehow that i was pleasing the inhabitants of heaven by doing so, and was rapidly pushed up jacobs corporate ladder, somehow without ever having to put my foot on a rung.
regular pioneer, ms, infant elder, special pioneer, temporary co, special branch assignments, they dropped on me with a rapidity that took away my senses.
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Duncan
We have traveled far on our respective roads, but our hearts have never taken us too far from each other
Indeed.
Here’s to you, Hillary!
I thought I knew you before, but I didn’t know the half. May the days ahead grant you the fulfilment and tranquillity that the empty-promise WT always failed to.
I don’t know when we’ll be able to meet again, separated as we are by oceans and continents, but, whenever it is, I’ll relish the prospect.
Take care, Hillary.
Your friend, Duncan
(Indisputably still younger, and formally demanding a manual recount on the prettiness thing.)
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UK peeps Vote William Young !!!!
by BritBoy inhey uk posters and lurkers.... please vote will this saturday... not only does he carry (part of) my name (oooh that will get the dubs lurking excited..."ooh ooh one step closer to outing britboy -pun intended-), and gorgeous, but he has the real pop idol talent!
gareth is just another flash in the pan westlife wannabe!!
ta all.
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Duncan
I was a Darius man, myself and sorry to see him go. Still, he's probably assured of a decent-ish pop career now anyway.
As for the two that are left, I think Will has got the talent, but Gareth'll probably win just because of the stammer-thing. It just makes him so cute, the public love him for it.
Duncan.
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Memories of Duncan - Part 2 - The Tables Turn
by hillary_step innot long after a fifteen year old duncan had outraged his teachers and surprised his peers by leaving behind a promising academic career to regular pioneer and wash windows, a telegraph pole wearing green pants knocked at my door.
as i was expecting a visit from the local constabulary, for reasons noted below; the pole was a pleasant surprise.
the pole was a actually a jw, the plainest and longest man i had ever seen, with a mighty grin capable of felling empires and, i was to discover, also the possessor of a formidable intellect.
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Duncan
Hillary
Great stuff, really enjoying this, I’m looking back and seeing events completely through another set of eyes.
“Telegraph Pole and Mustache Man” made me laugh, excellent descriptions!
it was obvious that the Pole was deeply impressed with the example of Duncan…beaming with pride…
I found this particularly interesting because I always felt I had a slightly difficult relationship with him, and would never had guessed that he took any “pride” in anything I ever did – I’ll explain more in my forthcoming “Memories of Hillary” post.But I’ll wait until you’re done with part III.
I can’t wait to see how this all turns out.
Best regards
Duncan.
Ps:
I’m not quite sure the kind of friend I was to Duncan…
Never worry about that. Perhaps I’ll put a bit in about that also in my post.
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11
Role Play among the Dubs
by Duncan indear all, .
this is my 100th post, and i decided to repost something i originally did as a post on h2o a couple of years ago.
it was a reply to somebody, and buried miles-deep in the thread, so hopefully it wont have been read by too many already.
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Duncan
LDH,
they don't even listen to what you're saying because they're trying to remember what catch-phrase comes next!
isn't THAT the truth?I have CERTAINLY had whole conversations with other Witnesses (not close, real friends - I mean others in the cong. with whom you have to keep up the image, elders and older sisters and stuff) that have been nothing but cut-and-paste comments said a million times before.
The "next catch-phrase" is it, exactly.
Lauralisa,
I myself have no personal experience of the post-75-rationalisation doublethink of the Witnesses (I was gone after about 78/79), but I can just imagine how it went. Thanks for an interesting post.
H - the Monty python reference I caught, but 3 doctors? Give me a clue, here.
Marylin - Hi again! That's right, it was you.
All these great, witty, perceptive people here, were all spouting that crap for years
Actually, I'm still a pretty dab hand at spouting crap! I had to deliver a stirring address to the assembled troops at our Company Kick-off 2002 last week - still - at least I'm getting paid for it, these days.Regards to all
Duncan.
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Memories of Duncan - Part 1
by hillary_step init was a surprise and delight for me to find duncan posting to this board.. our relationship goes back further than either of us would care to admit, right back to the days that were.. we both attended one of the most respected schools in our english town.
a school which produced reams of achievers like a combine-harvester of the soul.
it sowed the embryonic seeds of a major uk politician, world class musicians, in the classics and out, and a particularly amusing mimic who went on to write comedy scripts for some of the uks most popular shows.. i was not a jw at the time.
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Duncan
Hillary
I'm still up (it's 1 a.m. here) and still reading/posting.
I just re-read your post and saw the bit about the maroon leather brief case. I had completely forgotton about it, but I WAS rather famous (locally) for that. I really, REALLY loved that bookbag - despite the unkind comments of one or two of the other pioneers ("looks like a shopping bag!" "my mum's got one like that!" etc. etc.)
I don't even remember what happened to it in the end, but it was my constant companion for my 4 years of pioneering.
Memories!
Duncan.
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New Study All Over Again?
by Francois ini'll be moving soon to a new city about 300 miles from here.
i'm so tempted to wait, just like a spider, on the jws to come by with their current offer and get all "interested" in what they say.
then get myself a study.
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Duncan
Francois,
I think it'd be BRILLIANT - if you could actually pull it off.
I mean, the huge investment in time and energy, months of work!
It WOULD make a brilliant story, though.
And just think how the tale might get told and retold. Pretty soon the Dubs would be in a state where - even if they caught a live one and were progressing them nicely to full dubdom - they wouldn't know whether to quite believe in them or not ("suppose he's another apostate plant?")
What a hoot!
Duncan.
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Role Play among the Dubs
by Duncan indear all, .
this is my 100th post, and i decided to repost something i originally did as a post on h2o a couple of years ago.
it was a reply to somebody, and buried miles-deep in the thread, so hopefully it wont have been read by too many already.
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Duncan
Dear all,
This is my 100th post, and I decided to repost something I originally did as a post on H2O a couple of years ago. It was a reply to somebody, and buried miles-deep in the thread, so hopefully it won’t have been read by too many already. Anyway…
ROLE PLAY among the DubsI think that this is actually quite an under-researched/commentated-upon area in the whole JayDub psychology: the importance of Role-Play.
I'm quite convinced that the vast majority of normal witnesses (not the nutcase fanatics, I'm talking about the average Rank & file decent people), these people actually KNOW, on one level of their intelligence, that the whole thing is a deception, but are terrified of that knowledge, hide it to/from themselves, and kind of play along in well-worn patterns of behaviour that make them feel more comfortable.
They say things to each other almost in a ritualistic way:
· about how "upbuilding" the recent assembly was,
· about how marvellous the latest magazines are,
· about what “joy” they get from field service…and so on. All the time knowing - but denying to themselves - that these things aren't actually literally true. It is all role play.
As an example of what I’m talking about, I actually heard my mother say to another JW sister, Rosemary, recently (I was in the house, and she thought I was out of earshot; they were talking about me)
"Oh, Duncan. Yes, he fell away years ago. Of course - HE KNOWS IT'S THE TRUTH, but he’s so tied up with the world now, that he just won't do anything about it"
Now I KNOW that she can't actually believe this, I have been out for 20 years, and have had, over that time many, many conversations with her about "the Truth" and what's wrong with it. She knows what I am about. She KNOWS that I don’t – not for a minute – “know it’s the truth.”
Yet here she was, saying this. Why?
My take on it is this: that, for that moment, when she was in that role-play with Rosemary, she actually believed it, just for that moment. The comforting role-play was sufficient to blank-out her actual conscious knowledge of the situation. It was important that she was with a friend when she said it, she would never have uttered any such thing if she had known I was listening, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t say it simply to score points with Rosemary. It was all an elaborate, behaviour-reinforcing, belief-strengthening role-play.
I suppose I was surprised for a moment but, then again, only for a moment, because I full-well remember saying exactly that kind of thing about the fallen-by-the-wayside exJW's I knew when I was in and faithful. It is just the thing that you say in that situation. ( You can hardly say to the other witness "oh, Duncan, yes - he saw through the whole thing years ago and got out!" You simply have to take the he-knows-it's-the-truth line.)
It's all role play, like so much else they do. All the door-knocking, public speaking, making a spectacle of yourself at work because you take some nutty "stand" over birthdays, Christmas, goodness knows what else - the whole Witness life is one long extended role-play. All designed to shore up the witness way of life and belief. And it’s completely automatic. It kicks in when you try to talk to them about why you left – they automatically go into the defending-the-Truth role.
That’s why it’s so hard getting them out, I guess. How can you find a way to say to them – “look, stop this play-acting and just be yourself and listen for yourself for a moment!” It’s like they have the perfect defence.
I guess you have to wait until they’re ready .
Duncan.
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Part 5: The Beginning of the End
by Amazing inpart 5: the beginning of the end .
note: from this point forward begins not only my final journey out of the jws, but even more bizarre and twisted turns in the road.
i hope you all find this interesting, because to me it only gets more intriguing and weird for the 3 12 years following january 1992... moment of decision: i can point back to the mountain top visit with god, or maybe today i might call it a visit with my higher power, whomever she/he/it might be.
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Duncan
Amazing
Really enjoying this.
Insightful, and very engaging. Excellent.
Duncan