Posts by Duncan

20

Seven006, Anyone Else Who Feels the same Way.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

some years back, on h20, i would sometimes make posts that were generally ignored by the one person that i really wanted a response from:.

uncle bruce!.

then one day i received an email from the digger dahn under.

Duncan

Hi Mike

I just have this dreadful feeling that I'm going to hear

"WATFORDNIL"

an awful lot this season.

Duncan

depressed hornet class

16

Bethel Lurkers! Let People Go

by metatron in

jw
friends

it should be obvious by now that the society's vindictive policies.

are having a negative effect.

how many angry and disgruntled.

Duncan

Excellent post, Metatron.

I always like the way that you're able to pick up a point, and make a well-rounded argument in less than a dozen paragraphs.

David.

57

hi everyone.. my name is caspian, i am an elder in a congregation in england.. i have been reading this forum for about 12 months, never having the confidence to log in.. however after all the information that has come to light in the recent weeks, i feel that i need to start coming to terms with the crisis that i now feel.. i am a third gen jw, and been an elder for 15 years, my family whom i love dearly are all naive fully committed jw's.. please if any current or ex elders in a similar situation care to make any good advice.

please help.. sincere regards.

cas

Duncan

Welcome along, Caspian.

There's a load of us English-types here. I'm just North of London, myself.

I'm sure that here you'll get the support and right advice you need in order to manage, as far as it's possible, a reduced-trauma exit.

I'll look forward to reading your posts.

Duncan.

10

WTS and Silentlambs

by Duncan in

jw
friends

i started reading ex-jw internet boards like this about 3 or 4 years ago.

at that time, i had been out of the organisation - and perfectly happy - for about twenty years.

and one day during a slow afternoon in the office - i typed "jehovah" into a search engine (something that had never occurred to me before in my many years online prior to that) and wham!

Duncan

Hilary

Thanks for your reply. Very interesting interesting material about Bureaucratic Inhumanity and Eichmann.

Happy Man

i hope we have more compasion peopel as our leaders soon

...as do we all. Maybe this is the issue that will unseat the "wolves" - as Dutchie said:

This time, God willing, might be different

Regards to all,

Duncan

10

WTS and Silentlambs

by Duncan in

jw
friends

i started reading ex-jw internet boards like this about 3 or 4 years ago.

at that time, i had been out of the organisation - and perfectly happy - for about twenty years.

and one day during a slow afternoon in the office - i typed "jehovah" into a search engine (something that had never occurred to me before in my many years online prior to that) and wham!

Duncan

I started reading ex-JW internet boards like this about 3 or 4 years ago. At that time, I had been out of the organisation - and perfectly happy - for about twenty years. And one day during a slow afternoon in the office - I typed " Jehovah" into a search engine (something that had never occurred to me before in my many years online prior to that) and WHAM! a whole world of ex-JW essays, experiences, anecdotes, and sad and funny stories was open to me.

Like many of us here, I became quickly addicted, and reading H2O at first, and then this forum, JWD, became an almost daily habit. Again, like many of us, I fairly soon got to like my favourite posters, and would never miss anything posted by Amazing, Englishman, Lee Elder, AlanF, Farkel and various others too numerous to mention.

I had long been satisfied in my own mind about how empty and void were the hopes and promises held out by the WTS to its victims and how riddled with errors and outright dishonesty were many of their books and magazines. But now I was reading material that validated and amplified the somewhat vague and unformed notions I had about precisely what was wrong with being a Jehovahs Witness.

For example, I knew about the disfellowshipping teaching, and even had a brush with it: at the time of my leaving, I had said some indiscreet things to a couple of shepherding elders about the Society, and was up before a JC on a charge of apostasy. (I wrote a post about it). Miraculously enough, I survived and never was df'd. I was glad about that, not because I cared a fig about the Watchtower or my "standing with Jehovah" but simply because of the effect such a thing would have had on my trusting, believing parents and the social awkwardness that would have arisen in my half-in half-out family with a df'd person among them.

As I said, I was acquainted with the Df policy, and knew how it worked, but it wasn't until I started reading here, and was exposed to some of the truly horrible experiences and dreadful stories told by some here that it really hit home to me how horrific, unchristian and controlling that policy is. Reading that material on the internet really sharpened up my thinking and gave me a better appreciation of how ungodly and pharisaic the Society really is.

I say all this as background. The Internet has been a real education to me about how rotten the Society really is. Before, I kind-of knew that it was a false religion, but I really had no idea about how bad the leadership really were. Three years ago, I might have told someone that the GB was wrong about things , but basically sincere and kindly in intent. Three years of reading this site, and others like it, put paid to that notion.

Which brings me to the point about the Watchtower cover-up on the whole paedophile issue.

I must admit, the first time I read a post by Bill Bowen (Silentlambs) about a year-and-a-half ago, I was somewhat bemused. I thought to myself: " Why is this chap making SUCH a big fuss about this issue? It might be a problem locally in his congregation, but this is never going to trouble Brooklyn. This kind of thing, devastating as it is when it does happen, must be vanishingly rare. He's barking up the wrong tree here, the Watchtower needs opposing alright, but not on a crackpot issue like this! " Twenty years out of it , and I here I was still thinking like a Witness.

Because I had personally never been affected by this issue, and had no experience of it, I was assuming that it simply didn't go on, or not to any great extent. I was not, to my knowledge, ever acquainted with any victims, and was quite prepared to believe it hardly ever happened. But, of course, it's that " to my knowledge" which is the big flaw in that line of reasoning.

This business about taking problems to the Elders and their desire to keep the good name of the congregation beyond reproach means, of course, I may very well have been acquainted with paedophiles and their victims, just never known about it.

It was Bill Bowens insight to see the widespread nature of the problem, and his integrity and drive to get it publicised that has led in a major way to the high profile the issue has now attained. I can clearly see how wrong I was in my first assessment of Bill Bowens post, but it does to illustrate how easily the faithful dubs can fall back into denial in the face of the Panorama and Dateline shows. "" Oh, no! It doesnt go on! Not in my congregation! We'd know about it! Its all wicked apostate lies! " I was halfway towards that thinking myself at first, and Ive been out and adamantly opposed for twenty years!

It seems to me the handling of this issue has been an absolute touchstone, a litmus test for the Watchtower. Faced with this issue, the question being posed to the leadership comes down to: Are you prepared to care for and protect the victims, or more concerned with your reputation and standing in the eyes of men?

And what an answer they have given.

It rather seems that they think they'll be able to weather the storm and wait until the fuss dies down. But, of course, this issue is absolutely not going to go away. It will drain money, time, management attention and resources away from their set goals (printing and selling literature) and will be a millstone round their neck until they publicly recant their position. The two-witness thing is an absurdity that even most faithful dubs will have a lot of trouble swallowing.

Recant they must, and eventually will, even if they dont see it yet. But even after the humblest of apologies to the victims, they will still have been hugely damaged by all this.

Its been half-suggested by various posters on this forum that Ted Jaracz is much more culpable in all of this than simply being the negligent architect of a flawed policy. There are, it seems, unproven allegations that he himself has a molesting history. If that's true, all this publicity will bring some evidence to the surface, for sure. You cant be a paedophile without creating victims, and a smoking gun will appear if there's anything to it.

But even if none of that is true, given that he has, apparently, made many, many enemies at Bethel over his years of tyranny there, what an opportune this would be to mount a coup and unseat him. Think of the benefits to the Society! They could make a clean break with the past policy and blame the whole thing on him. He could take the rap.

Perhaps, as the survival instincts of the Organisation kick in, something like that might actually happen. Who knows?

Anyway, I just wanted to say: Brilliant job Bill Bowen! And everyone else associated with Silentlambs too.

Duncan.

Edited by - Duncan on 24 July 2002 13:9:38

Edited by - Duncan on 25 July 2002 5:10:48

4

Question for the Brits (Monty Python fluff)

by Bendrr in

jw
friends

i've been collecting the complete set of episodes and was watching one the other day and wanted to ask the folks here from the uk a question about it.. it was "royal episode 13".

the sketch at the end was john cleese going to the undertaker's (graham chapman) with his dead mother and graham chapman looks in the bag and says "fred, we've got an eater here, get the oven on".

the audience starts yelling and rushes the set and the program ends.

Duncan

Hello Had Enough,

The sketch was something to do with a chap - John Cleese - going to an undertakers to get his mother buried, and then being persuaded by the Undertaker to eat her instead. That's what the line is all about. Good ole Bad Taste TV.

In the book I quoted from - which I don't have in front of me now - it does go on to say that in the compilation tapes that were released later by the BBC, this particular sketch was edited out, and something else put in its place. It does rather seem to have been an embarrassment to the BBC. Perhaps that'swhy you've never seen it, although, since Bendrr HAS seen it, clearly a version of the tapes exist which does include the sketch.

Duncan.

4

Question for the Brits (Monty Python fluff)

by Bendrr in

jw
friends

i've been collecting the complete set of episodes and was watching one the other day and wanted to ask the folks here from the uk a question about it.. it was "royal episode 13".

the sketch at the end was john cleese going to the undertaker's (graham chapman) with his dead mother and graham chapman looks in the bag and says "fred, we've got an eater here, get the oven on".

the audience starts yelling and rushes the set and the program ends.

Duncan

Hey Bendrr,

Monty Python stuff eh? There's a certain kind of Brit who, while out drinking with his mates, will - after 2 pints - start reciting famous sketches word-perfectly. Sad thing is, most of the mates all join in, too.

Good job I'm not like that. Oh no. Goodness me, no.

Anyway - being the Python anorak I am, here's your answer.

In Roger Wilmuts book "From Fringe to Flying Circus" (Eyre Methuen 1980) on page 213 it says about that sketch:

" ...it is the sheer awfulness of the idea that makes it funny; but it was a bit too much for the BBC. After some negotiation, it was agreed that the sketch could be performed only if the audience were heard to protest against it, and then revolt and climb on the stage to stop it. In the event, the whole exercise looks a trifle forced; for one thing the audience start to shout too soon (and in reality, a shocked audience would react with an embarrassed silence) and, because of fire regulations, only about a quarter of the audience were allowed on stage. This looks rather obvious as it is only one section of the audience which gets up - the rest just sit there laughing. .... The whole incident seems to have been an embarrassment to the BBC"

regards

Duncan

19

It's coming home, Football's coming home !

by Simon in

one - nil to england .

little micheal owen !!

yessssssedited by - simon on 21 june 2002 3:3:17.

Duncan

Well we're out, but I'm more disappointed in the manner we went.

There was simply nothing to cheer for. No attacks, no flashes of brilliance, no near misses, no dodgy offsides or penalty appeals. England had no ideas in the second half.

And the sight of David Beckham running into the box and obviously diving for a penalty was just an embarrassment to the nation.

So...that's it for another 4 years. I'm sure the team'll get a huge reception when they come back, in any event.

Come on you Germans tomorrow!.

Duncan.

46

GET READY TO MEET YOUR GOD!

by You Know in

get ready to meet your god o israel, is no doubt a meaningless phrase to those who have no fear of god.

those who in their presumptuousness imagine that there will not be a day when jehovah settles accounts with his people can only be described as faithless and apostate.

but, for those who fear god the prospect of jehovahs impending judgment both fills one with dread and awe.

Duncan

You Know - edited for a couple of typos. Now it makes sense:

“Get ready to meet your God O Israel,” is no doubt a meaningless phrase to those who have no time for idiotic cult religions. Those who in their rationality discern that there will not be a day when Jehovah settles accounts with his people can only be described as level-headed and well-balanced. Yes, for those who are perfectly sensible the prospect of hearing another wild rant about Jehovah’s impending judgment both fills one with boredom and nausea.

There has never been a period in history when Jehovah God initiated any judgment. So, it would be a fantasy to imagine that the great God Jehovah will intervene in human affairs now to set matters straight. As regards the difficulties within the Watchtower Society, a fact that should not be lost in the avalanche of accusations is that decent people everywhere hold the leaders of these people especially accountable. As Christ said in connection with his faithful slave: Those ones who have arrogantly raised themselves up in charge, they will face the consequences of their actions.

In the case of Israel, Jehovah, their fictitious God, was of course powerless to prevent that nation becoming extremely corrupt and finally decisive action was taken by the Babylonian armies who destroyed Judah. And then, after approximately 1500 years into the Jewish system of things, Jehovah kind of lost his place to Christ, who declared dissolved Jehovah’s relationship with the Jews. At that point Jesus instituted a new religion founded upon the 12 apostles. Since that time an interval of nearly 2,000 years has lapsed during which time the entirely mythical Jehovah has been powerless to prevent anything at all developing up until now when, I, his spokesman, shall issue his final edict upon the Watchtower organization that Christ would be appalled by.

During the last century, approximately, Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society have been busy telling the world that it’s about to end, all of this having nothing to do with the worship of God and the genuine Christian faith; this in preparation for the arrival of the Dateline program tonight and the world’s final judgment upon these disgusting charlatans and their entire system of things. One of the crucial issues has to do with the commonplace observation that JW’s only worship the Watchtower out of ignorance and indoctrination and that they will defect if enough truth and knowledge is brought to bear against them. So, the GB has been powerless to stop NBC in reporting various problems and scandals both within the organization and the individuals who run it, with the most difficult tests manifestly laying directly ahead.

Keeping in mind that in order to satisfy sales growth targets, the GB has thoroughly crushed the spirit and individuality of their poor victims, who were not at all deserving of such punishment, it should, then, not come as a surprise that most observers have foretold the meting out of an excruciatingly painful rebuke upon the GB who have generally made a mess of things and brought reproach upon themselves. So, the way it’s set up to go down, only those who keep their heads in the sand can weather this stern expose and survive with their faith intact. At some point each individual who has any sense will demonstrate that they are not following the GB. That’s why their consciences should implore them with words like these, which seem particularly relevant going forward:

For this is what You Know has said to the house of JWD, ‘Keep reading me, and keep laughing. And do not serve at Bethel, and to Bill Bowens vigil you must not come, and the Dateline show you must not record; because Larouche himself will without fail go into political exile; and as regards Bethel, it will become something unwealthy. Search for sense in any of this nonsense and keep puzzling that we have anyone still operative.…O you who are turning justice into primetime TV, featuring the ones who have cast righteousness to the earth itself.’

In view of the ongoing meltdown among Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the publicizing of corruption within Jehovah’s organization, coupled with all my ominous and preposterous predictions about the world being on the brink of nuclear war, the prophet’s chilling admonition: Get ready to meet your God, O Israel seems particularly ridiculous.

/ You Knorr

226

UK & IRELAND MAP

by ballistic in

jw
friends

i had an idea that i could build a uk map of everyones location which would show you instantly who is in your area from jwd.. (it might be an idea to do a seperate us one aswell but i'll wait and see if this one takes off first, or if anyone from the us wants to volunteer to do that one).

(and australia but you are all in the same backyard anyway - literally!!!).

anyway, all you have to do is post or email me your username and town and i will draw you on the map above which will change gradually to include everyone!.

Duncan

Norr Flunden.

Duncan.