Posts by dungbeetle

either way, i'll endeavor to get to the point.. just a quick background for your readers: my wife jill and i left the jw's in 1998 with our 2 teenage children after 17 years of involvement.

dungbeetle

I likely would have been thrilled and excited and gloating years ago myself...its a cult mind thing I guess.

And the good times keep on rollin'...At the public talk this past sunday the speaker took a jab at NYC by saying...that's a result of false religion.

And at the service/school meeting they said "We go preaching door to door and refuse blood because this way it proves we love Jehovhah" (That one I walked out of)

And at the bookstudy this week, the conducter reads a scripture in 2 peter something or other, and says "See...only people serving jehovah will be preserved alive at Armegeddon. That's a lot of people that are going to die."

I refuse to believe that God will kill Seigfreid and Roy...

Love to you and yours Randy

...edieted for speelling
dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

2

Watchtower Study Sept 3-9

by dungbeetle in

"i well know know, o jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong.

it does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.

" (jeremiah 10:23) jeremiah's insightful observation applies to us today with added force.

dungbeetle

You taught me well Hippi...

Kisses..

dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

35

American Witnesses face difficult time over flag

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

reports are coming from the united states that small flags and flag badges are being distributed at schools and other public places.. many are refusing to take a flag and this is causing resentment and hurt feelings.

not wishing to offend, witnesses are asking their elders what they should do.. cheers,.

ozzie.

dungbeetle

I've been getting flack from my neighbors over my refusal to fly a flag or recite the national anthem and I don't know what all. Of course, my neighbors give me flack if my grass is too tall.

I tell them simply that I am a minister, that I am of service to all people, that I help people who are suffering. And that if you tell me that someone is being harmed by my not flying a flag, then I will fly one in keeping with the scripture Phillipians 4:8...Whatsoever things are good...etc.

Haven't had a serious problem yet. I also did a very crude drawing of planet earth and stuck it in my window (don't have a flag just yet).

In a lot of cases it's the presentation that makes the difference.

Toodles...

dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

2

Watchtower Study Sept 3-9

by dungbeetle in

"i well know know, o jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong.

it does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.

" (jeremiah 10:23) jeremiah's insightful observation applies to us today with added force.

dungbeetle

"Can You Distinguish Both Right and Wrong?"

"Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord" Ephesians 5:10

"I well know know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." (Jeremiah 10:23) Jeremiah's insightful observation applies to us today with added force. Why? It is because we are living in "critical times hard to deal with,: as the Bible foretold. (2 Timothy 3:1) Every day, we are confrontd with perplexing situations that require that we make decisions. Large or small, these decisions can have a profound effect on our welfare--physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

2 Many choices we make in our daily life may be considered routine or trivial. Each day, for example, we go through the process of choosing the clothes we wear, the food we eat, the people we see, and so on. We make these choices almost automatically, with little thought. But are such matters really trivial? For dedicated Christians, it is a matter of deep concern that the choices we make in our attire and appearance, in our eating and drinking, and in our speech and conduct always reflect our role as servants of the Most High, Jehovah God. We are reminded of the apostle Paul's words: "Whether you are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God's glory."--1 Corinthians 10:31; Colossians 4:6; 1 Timothy 2:9,10.

3 Then thre are choices that are of even more serious concern. The decision to marry or to remain single, for example, surely has a profound and lasting effect on one’s life. To be sure, choosing the right person to marry, to be one’s lifelong partner, is no small matter* (Proverbs 18:22) Additionally, our choice in friends and associates, in education, in employment, and in entertainment and recreation plays an influential, even decisive, role in our spirituality—hence, in our eternal welfare.—Romans 13:13,14; Ephesians 5:3,4

4 Faced with all of this, it is certainly desirable for us to have the ability to distuinguish between what is right and what is wrong or between what appears to be right and what is really right. "There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward," warns the Bible. (Proverbs 14:12) Thus, we might ask: 'How can we develop the ability to distuinguish between right and wrong? Where can we turn in order to find the needed guidance in our decision making? What have people, past and present, done in this regard, and what has been the outcome?'

"The Philosophy and Empty Deception" of the World.

5 The first-century Christians lived in a world dominated by Greco-Roman values and ideals. On the one hand, there were the comforts and luxuries of the Roman way of life, regarded by many as something to be envied. On the other hand, the intellectual circle of the day was abuzz not only with the philosophical ideas of Plato and Aristotle but also with those of the newer schools, such as the Epicureans and the Stoics. When the apostle Paul came to Athens on his second missionary tour, he was confronted by Epicurean and Stoic philosophers who felt that they were superior to "this chatterer," Paul.--Acts 17:18.

6 It is not hard, therefore, to understand why some among the early Christians were drawn to the pretentious ways and life-styles of the people around them. (2 Timothy 4:10) Those who were part and parcel of the system seemed to enjoy many benefits and advantages, and the choices they made appeared to be sound. The world seemed to have something valuable to offer that the dedicated Christian way of life did not. However, the apostle paul warned: "Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to Christ." (Colossians 2:8) Why did Paul say that?

7 Paul sounded that warning because he sensed a real danger lurking behind the thinking of those attracted by the world. His use of the term "philosophy and empty deception" is especially significant. The word "philosophy" literally means "the love and pursuit of wisdom." That in itself may be beneficial. In fact, the Bible, particularly in the book of proverbs, encourages the pursuit of the right kind of knowlege and wisdom. (proverbs 1: 1-7; 3:13-18) Paul, however, coupled "philosophy" with "empty deception." In other words, Paul viewed the wisdom that the world had to offer as empty and deceptive. Like an inflated balloon, it had the appearance of solidity, but there was no substance to it. It would certainly be futile, even disastrous, to base one's choice of right and wrong on something as insubstantial as "the philosophy and empty deception" of the world.

Those Saying That "Good is Bad and Bad is Good"

8 Things are not very different today. In practically every field of human endeavor, there are experts galore. marriage and family counselors, columnists, self-styled therapists, astrologers, psychics, and others are ready to offer advice--for a fee. But what kind of advice is being offered? Often, Bible standards on morality are put aside to make room for the so-called new morality. For example, in speaking about the government's refusal to register "same-sex marriages," an editorial in Canada's mainstream newspaper The Globe and Mail declares: "In the year 2000, it is grotesque that a loving and committed couple should be denied their fondest wish because they happen to be of the same sex." The trend today is to be tolerant, not judgemental. Everything is considered relative; there is no longer any absolute in right and wrong.--Psalm 10:3,4.

9 Others look to the socially and financially successful--the rich and famous--as models in their decision making. Although the rich and famous are considered respectable in today's society, they often pay only lip service to virtues like honesty and trust. In the pursuit of power and profit, many feel no qualms about cutting corners and trampling on moral principals. To achieve fame and popularity, some casually discard established values and standards in preference to behavior that is bizarre and shocking. The result is a profit-motivated, permissive society in which the motto is "Anything goes." Is it any wonder that people are confused and lost when it comes to right and wrong?--Luke 6:39.

10 The tragic consequences of bad decisions made on the basis of faulty guidance are all around us--broken marriages and families, drug and alcohol abuse, violent youth gangs, promiscuity, sexually transmitted diseases, to name but a few. Really, how can we expect things to be otherwise when people abandon all standards or points of reference when it comes to right and wrong? (Romans 1:28-32)It is just as the prophet Isaiah declared: "Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those wise in their own eyes and discreet in front of their own faces!"--Isaiah 5:20,21.

11 The fact that God called to account those ancient Jews who became "wise in their own eyes" makes it all the more important for us to avoid relying on ourselves in determining right and wrong. Many people today subsribe to the notion of "just listen to your heart," or "do what you feel is right." Is such an approach sound? Not acording to the Bible, which plainly says: "The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desparate. Who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9) Would you rely on a treacherous and desparate person to guide you in your decision making? Hardly. If anything, you would probably do just the opposite of what such a person tells you. That is why the Bible reminds us: "He that is trusting in his own heart is stupid, but he that is walking in wisdom is the one that will escape."--Proverbs 3:5-7; 28:26.

12 Since we should rely neither on the wisdom of the world nor on ourselves when it comes to right and wrong, what should we do? Note this clear and unambiguous counsel from the apostle Paul: "Quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over, that you may prove to yourselves the will of God."(Romans 12:2) Why do we need to prove to ourselves the will of God? In the Bible, Jehovah gives a straight-forward but powerful reason, saying: "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:9) Thus, rather than relying on so-called common sense or good feelings, we are admonished: "Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord."--Ephesians 5:10.

13 Jesus Christ emphasized this need when he said: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowlege of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3) The expression "taking in knowlege" has a far deeper meaning than simply "knowing." According to Vine's Expository Dictionary, it "indicates a relation between the person knowing and the object known; in this respect, what is known is of value or importance to the one who knows, and hence the establishment of the relationship." To have a relationship with someone means more than just knowing who that person is or what his name is. It also involves knowing the likes and dislikes of that person, knowing his values, his standards--and honoring them.--1 John 2:3; 4:8.

14 How, then, can we acquire the ability to distinguish between right and wrong? Paul's words to the first-century Hebrew Christians provides the answer. He wrote: "Everyone that partakes of milk is unacquainted with the words of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong." Here Paul contrasted "milk," which he described in the preceeding verse as "the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God," with "solid food," which belongs to "mature people," who "have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong."--Hebrews 5:12-14.

15 This means that, first of all, we must work hard to gain an accurate undrstanding of God’s standards as contained in his Word, the Bible. We are not looking for a list of do’s and don’ts to tell us what we may or may not do. The Bible is not such a book. Rather, Paul explained: “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16,17) To benefit from that teaching, reproving, and disciplining, we must put our mind and thinking abilities to use. This takes effort, but the result--being “fully competent, completely equipped for every good work”--is well worth it.—Proverbs 2:3-6.

16 Then, as Paul indicated, mature people “have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong.” Here we come to the crux of the matter. The expression “have their perceptive powers trained” literally means “the sense organs having been trained (like a gymnast).” (Kingdom Interlinear Transaltion) a seasoned gymnast on a chosen apparatus, such as rings or a balance beam, can perform split-second maneuvers that seem to defy gravity or other natural laws. He has full control of his body members at all times, and he senses almost instinctively what moves he must make so that he complete his routine successfully. All of this is the result of rigorous training and incessant practice.

17 We too must be rained like a gymnast, spiritually speaking, if we want to be sure that the decisions and choices we make are always sound. We must at all times have full control of our senses and body members. (Matthew 5:29, 30; Colossians 3:5-10) For example, do you discipline your eyes not to look at immoral material or your ears not to listen to degrading music or speech? It is true that such unwholesome material is all around us. However, it is still up to us whether we let it take root in our heart and mind. We can imitate the psalmist who said: “I shall not set foot in front of my eyes any good-for-nothing thing. The doing of those who fall away I have hated; it does not cling to me…As for anyone speaking falsehoods, he will not be firmly established in front of my eyes.”—Psalm 101:3,7.

Train Your Perceptive powers Through Use

18 Bear in mind that it is “through use” that we can have our perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong. In other words, every time we are faced with a decision, we should learn to use our mental powers to discern what bible principles are involved, and how they can be applied. Develop the habit of doing research in Bible publications provided through “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45) We can, of course, seek the help of mature Christians. Nonetheless, the personal effort we put forth to study God’s Word, coupled with prayer to Jehovah for his guidance and spirit, will pay rich dividends in the long run.—Ephesians 3:14-19.

19 As we progressively train our perceptive powers, the objective is that “we should no longer be babes, tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error.” (Ephesians 4:14) Rather, based on our knowledge and understanding of what is acceptable to God, we can make wise decisions, big and small, that are beneficial to us, upbuilding to our fellow worshippers, and above all pleasing to our heavenly Father. (Proverbs 27:11) What a blessing and protection that is in these critical times!

* In a list of over 40 of the most stressful experiences in people’s life, compiled by Drs. Thomas Holmes and Richard Rahe, death of a spouse, divorce, and separation occupy the top three spots. Getting married ranks seventh.

1 In what way can life today be perplexing, and why?
2 What choices may be considered trivial, yet how do dedicated Christians view such?
3 What choices are of genuinly serious concern?
4 (a) What ability would be most desirable? (b) What questions need to be considered?
5 What kind of world did the early Christians live in?
6 (a) What were some of the early Christians tempted to do? (b) What warning did paul sound?
7 What does the wisdom of the world really amount to?
8 (a) To whom do people turn for advice? (b) What kind of advice is dispensed?
9 What do people considered respectable in society often do?]
10 How have Isaiah’s words about good and bad proved true?
11 Why is it unsound thinking to rely on oneself when determining right and wrong?
12 Why do we need to prove to ourselves the “will of God”?
13 How do Jesus’ words recorded at John 17:3 emphasize the need to know what is acceptable to God?
14 What did Paul say is the chief distinction between spiritual babes and mature people?
15 Why is hard work needed to gain an accurate knowledge of God?
16 What does it mean to have one’s perceptive powers trained?
17 In what sense should we be like a gymnast?
18 What is sugested by the expression “through use” in Paul’s explanation about training one’s perceptive powers?

Can You Ecplain?

What ability is needed to make sound decisions?

Why is it unwise to look to prominent people or to rely on our own feelings when deciding right and wrong?

Why should we be sure of what is acceptable to God when making decisions, and how can we do so?

What does it mean ‘to have our perceptive powers trained’?

dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

36

Watchtower Exploitation Begins!

by metatron in

jw
friends

over the weekend, various publishers/congregations were.

instructed to go out in service for a "special work".. some congregations received letters from circuit overseers.

emphasizing immediate use of old awake magazines with articles.

dungbeetle

Yeah you JW's just DO that...

jehovah's witnesses have been practicing psychological terrorism for close on to 122 years...JW's had BETTER go door to door with a 'message of hope and comfort'...WT owes the world a debt that can never be repaid as far as I'm concerned.

jehovah' witnesses have been responsible for the deaths of more people than the Branch Davidians and People's Temple...JW's had BETTER go door to door with a 'message of hope and comfort'. It's the least you can do ...finally!!

I've noticed that the jehovah's witnesses that come on this board and try to apologize for themselves have totally stopped using facts and figures and anything tangible to support their position.

Think about this...why can't jehovah's witnesses go to the doors today and offer the books and magazines that have been scheduled for this week and month? Because they aren't appropriate, that's why!!! This Sunday Watchtower study basically tells people not to study the bible on their own...that only through assemblies,conventions, and the literature can a person possibly find salvation (and hence resurrection). JW's had BETTER go door to door with a 'message of hope and comfort'...and don't use the current literature!!!!

dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

11

What My JW Family Members say....is this typical?

by dins in

jw
friends

i went to see my grandmother today, who has been a jw pioneer for going on 60 years and is still pioneering.

this is what she told me.. she said that they had their one-day assembly yesterday and that attendance was high.

she said that there was someone there from bethel in ny, who told everyone his experience of the attack on tuesday.

dungbeetle

Sing praises to Jehovah...Song # 213

We must act together as one, Independence, wisely we shun
Harmony and oneness of mind, Bring peace of rarest kind.

Unity brings blessings. This we'll surely find.
If with talents we are endowed, There's no reason e'er to be proud.

Unity we cherish, For it is so good.
Unity rewards us so well--

Sung to the tune of 'Vomitus Maximus'

If a large group of people can stand at the end of a bridge and WATCH
the shocked and injured stagger across, how can we expect any better behavior from those who didn't even actually SEE it.

Don't worry...what goes around comes around. There are those of us who will make sure of it.

dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

29

Anyone up on witness dogma?

by FrightMare in

jw
friends

anyone here know if witnesses are allowed to serve in the military?

i know they're not allowed to fight in war, but are they allowed to be chefs for soldiers, for example.. when cornelius became christian, the bible doesn't say that he left his military career.. furthermore, matthew 5:41: "if someone in authority impresses you for a mile, go with him two miles.".

any help would be appreciated, thanks.

dungbeetle

For all the lurkers...

WT 96 5/1

15 What, though, if the Christian lives in a land where exemption is not granted to ministers of religion? Then he will have to make a personal decision following his Bible-trained conscience. (Galatians 6:5) While taking the authority of Caesar into account, he will weigh carefully what he owes to Jehovah. (Psalm 36:9; 116:12-14; Acts 17:28) The Christian will remember that the mark of a true Christian is love for all his fellow believers, even those who live in other lands or those belonging to other tribes. (John 13:34, 35; 1 Peter 2:17) Further, he will not forget the Scriptural principles found in texts such as Isaiah 2:2-4; Matthew 26:52; Romans 12:18; 14:19; 2 Corinthians 10:4; and Hebrews 12:14.

Civilian Service

16 However, there are lands where the State, while not allowing exemption for ministers of religion, nevertheless acknowledges that some individuals may object to military service. Many of these lands make provision for such conscientious individuals not to be forced into military service. In some places a required civilian service, such as useful work in the community, is regarded as nonmilitary national service. Could a dedicated Christian undertake such service? Here again, a dedicated, baptized Christian would have to make his own decision on the basis of his Bible-trained conscience.

17 It seems that compulsory service was practiced in Bible times. One history book states: "In addition to the taxes and dues exacted from the inhabitants of Judea, there was also a corvée [unpaid labor exacted by public authorities]. This was an ancient institution in the East, which the Hellenistic and Roman authorities continued to maintain. . . . The New Testament, too, cites examples of corvée in Judea, showing how widespread it was. In accordance with this custom, the soldiers pressed Simon of Cyrene into carrying Jesus' cross [torture stake] (Matthew 5:41; 27:32; Mark 15:21; Luke 23:26)."

18 Similarly, citizens in some countries today are required by the State or by local authorities to participate in various forms of community service. Sometimes this is for a specific task, such as digging wells or building roads; sometimes it is on a regular basis, such as weekly participation in cleaning up roads, schools, or hospitals. Where such civilian service is for the good of the community and is not connected with false religion or is not in some other way objectionable to the consciences of Jehovah's Witnesses, they have often complied. (1 Peter 2:13-15) This has usually resulted in an excellent witness and has sometimes silenced those who falsely accuse the Witnesses of being antigovernment.-Compare Matthew 10:18.

19 What, though, if the State requires a Christian for a period of time to perform civilian service that is a part of national service under a civilian administration? Here again, Christians must make their own decision based on an informed conscience. "We shall all stand before the judgment seat of God." (Romans 14:10) Christians faced with a requirement of Caesar should prayerfully study the matter and meditate on it. It may also be wise to talk the matter over with mature Christians in the congregation. After this a personal decision must be made.-Proverbs 2:1-5; Philippians 4:5.

20 While engaged in such research, Christians would consider a number of Bible principles. Paul said that we must "be obedient to governments and authorities as rulers, . . . be ready for every good work . . . be reasonable, exhibiting all mildness toward all men." (Titus 3:1, 2) At the same time, Christians would do well to examine the proposed civilian work. If they accept it, will they be able to maintain Christian neutrality? (Micah 4:3, 5; John 17:16) Would it involve them with some false religion? (Revelation 18:4, 20, 21) Would performing it prevent or unreasonably limit them from fulfilling their Christian responsibilities? (Matthew 24:14; Hebrews 10:24, 25) On the other hand, would they be able to continue to make spiritual progress, perhaps even sharing in the full-time ministry while performing the required service?-Hebrews 6:11, 12.

21 What if the Christian's honest answers to such questions lead him to conclude that the national civilian service is a "good work" that he can perform in obedience to the authorities? That is his decision before Jehovah. Appointed elders and others should fully respect the conscience of the brother and continue to regard him as a Christian in good standing. If, however, a Christian feels that he cannot perform this civilian service, his position should also be respected. He too remains in good standing and should receive loving support.-1 Corinthians 10:29; 2 Corinthians 1:24; 1 Peter 3:16.

22 As Christians we will not cease to render "to him who calls for honor, such honor." (Romans 13:7) We will respect good order and seek to be peaceful, law-abiding citizens. (Psalm 34:14) We may even pray "concerning kings and all those who are in high station" when these men are called upon to make decisions that affect our Christian life and work. As a result of our paying back Caesar's things to Caesar, we hope that "we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with full godly devotion and seriousness." (1 Timothy 2:1, 2) Above all, we will continue to preach the good news of the Kingdom as mankind's only hope, conscientiously paying back God's things to God.

dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

29

Anyone up on witness dogma?

by FrightMare in

jw
friends

anyone here know if witnesses are allowed to serve in the military?

i know they're not allowed to fight in war, but are they allowed to be chefs for soldiers, for example.. when cornelius became christian, the bible doesn't say that he left his military career.. furthermore, matthew 5:41: "if someone in authority impresses you for a mile, go with him two miles.".

any help would be appreciated, thanks.

dungbeetle

WTS Deception on Alternative Military Service

Until 1996 the Watchtower Society's official policy was that a young JW man who volunteered for alternative military service, rather than being imprisoned or letting a court sentence him to some kind of alternative civilian service, had violated Christian neutrality and therefore was either to be disfellowshipped or declared to have voluntarily disassociated himself from the JW organization. Beginning in 1978, the Governing Body voted on changing this policy a number of times, and generally had a simple majority who voted for change, but because the GB had a policy that all changes needed a 2/3 majority, and that was never reached until 1996, the policy remained.

AlanF

In 1996, it appears that Jehovah changed his mind, and so via divine direction instructed the Governing Body to change its policy. In the May 1, 1996 Watchtower (pp. 18-20) the Society declared that it was now a matter of conscience if a young man opted for alternative military service, and elders should now respect that conscience by not disfellowshipping or disassociating him.

For the older position see 1991 Yearbook pp. 166-167, 1982 Yearbook pp. 226-227; The Watchtower 9/1/86 p. 20; Awake! 12/8/74 pp. 22-25, 9/22/66 pp. 21-23.

The relevant statements from these references are quoted below:

From the May 1, 1996 Watchtower, pp. 18-20:

dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

33

Witnesses instructed not to harbor private ideas

by cyberguy in

jw
friends

today's watchtower lesson instructs witnesses not to think for themselves when it comes to bible understanding:.

augest 1, 2001, p. 14, par.

first, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned.

dungbeetle

<"since we're now officially not allowed to do that for ourselves.>"

Have you been in the ocean, on an island, in a cave behind a waterfall Little Toe? We haven't been able to 'think for ourselves' since Russell's day.

If you need citations, be happy to provide them.

dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.