Posts by dungbeetle

9

Why don't we ALL just shut up and go away!

by Bridgette in

jw
friends

so, why dont we all just shut up and leave the wtbts alone to its work?

this question comes up frequently from those still inside the organization.

i want to address this question from my humble pov.

dungbeetle

Speaking as someone who is still fresh from an 'apostofest'...

Being in or around a cult (27 years for me) is a lot like being in some kind of natural disaster. It's hard to realize how bad it is untill it's long been over. And even during the WTC disaster, we hear the stories of people who got out turning around and helping others; I downloaded an image that I peek at from time to time of a firefighter going UP the stairs of Tower 1 I believe it is.

2 things concern me the most about the Watchtower organization...the body count and the incredible social burden to society. Those children on the face of that infamous Awake magazine were human beings who had their whole lives ahead of them...they possibly may have become doctors and lawyers and social workers....persons we need right now. The work of ex-jw's has made a big difference in blood, alternative service, rape resistance and voting issues.

The other thing that concerns me is the social burden. Many of the children of Jehovah's Witnesses grow up to need a tremendous amount of community resources just to STAY ALIVE...I can give you stories, people I have personally met. Then they need community resources to rebuild their lives and finally to build a new life. If it really is true that the Watchtower is a burden to Society, I believe it should be made to pay somehow.

Such issues unfortunately are a little trickier to navigate than the United Nations issue...but it can be done I believe. But the most important thing is saving lives. That is why instead of running, with new information, to hard-core JW's I think it is a better use of resources to run to the public. Especially the press, and also don't forget the countercult movements. I also think that mental health organizations such as psychology and psychiatry unions should have whatever info we can pass on to them. If it were up to me I would invite psychology students to our apostofests; let them get a good look (for those ex-jw's who are comfortable) at the results of Jehovah's Witnesses.

I ran around on the internet and at websites; toddled around on various boards, in chatrooms, and began email and telephone relationships....but there is ABSOLUTELY NO SUBSTITUTE FOR LIVE FACE TO FACE CONTACT with these incredibly brave souls who will take the time to share their experiences in person. I am forever indebted to these people for opening up to me and its very humbling to hear what they have survived.

For those that need to go on with their lives and cannot look back....all the more power to them. If you got out alive you did everything right. For those that haven't had natural love and kindness for fellow human beings and family still left behind in the Watchtower totally beaten out of them... they are truly heroes to me.

Toodles

Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

133

MAJOR UN/WTS/NGO NEWS - WTS IS GONE

by hawkaw in

as of 11:45 this morning (i had a telphone call this morning with the refernce department person named holly at 212-963-7234), i can tell you that the watchtower has disassociated itself from the united nations dpi!!!!!!.

the dpi is now taking them off the list.

the dpi requested the list removal to be done this morning!!!!!.

dungbeetle

hey all...hawkaw has reached his maximum posts and will post tomorrow. Paul Hoeffel has yet to phone him back.

Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

11

being witnesses

by speffot in

jw
friends

dont get me wrong, i dont mean to sound critical or rude, but how can some of you say you are witnesses but not attend meetings and stuff...or go witnessing?

its what jehovah says to do, so how can u not do what jehovah says, but yet call yourself a jehovahs witness??

?

dungbeetle

hey speffot...

speaking as one of your JW's you are referring to...

Whatever you do...

DO NOT ask...'why are you hurting?'

DO NOT ask...'how can I help?'

DO NOT ask...'what would it take to bring you back?'

DO NOT ask...'why do JW with 10,20,(or 27 in my case ) years get upset and want to leave?'

BUT DO...criticize, judge, namecall and pull the holier-than-thou Bible-thumping God-is-on-my-side-only routine...just like so many OTHER religions.

Why are so many JW's leaving? Because of people like YOU!!! Live forever with someone like you? Where's the cliff I jump off of FIRST!!!

Tonight at my school/service meeting they announced another disfellowshipping. Lucky guy!!!! Years from now he'll be greatful...

Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

10

Interesting point about the WT-UN thing

by comment in

jw
friends

it's easy to document that there have been dozens of derogatory statements about the un in watchtower publications in the years since the society gained ngo status.. we already know that the brothers were not informed about this status.

and in the early 1990's, it would have been considerably harder for the brothers to find out.

why would any of them even think to visit or phone the un and ask, "is the watchtower society in any way associated with your organization?".

dungbeetle

Oh Hippie...you're family. You're different.

Unless you think that's an insult.

Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

5

"True JWs in Romania"(hey norm!)

by sf in

jw
friends

this site has many links to many old wt mags:.

< http://the-true-jw.oltenia.ro/index.html.

also, look at these truly terrifying photos:.

dungbeetle

No flag....where's the flag...OMG!!!

Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

10

Interesting point about the WT-UN thing

by comment in

jw
friends

it's easy to document that there have been dozens of derogatory statements about the un in watchtower publications in the years since the society gained ngo status.. we already know that the brothers were not informed about this status.

and in the early 1990's, it would have been considerably harder for the brothers to find out.

why would any of them even think to visit or phone the un and ask, "is the watchtower society in any way associated with your organization?".

dungbeetle

I've said it before and I'll say it again...the best and the brightest in the JW have long...long....gone.

I don't understand why some people just don't accept that *the ones they love have chosen their religion over their family.* Yes it hurts and yes it isn't fair....but nevertheless that is their choice.

No they don't come right out and say so. They say things like.."well, it's no big deal' or 'well, that's from an apostate source' or 'well,they're just imperfect people'.

*But the truth is, they chose their religion over the people that love them.*

And people that have made this choice don't give a rat's ass about the UN or children dead from denial of blood or young men dead from refusal of alternative service or whole families raped and murdered because of failure to pay a 25 cent tax.

And that is why the WT garners very little accountability from its members for what they do. JW's have what they want already. At least most of them anyway.

And I really really hope I'm wrong.

Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

29

Ex-dubs in Southern Ca.

by jterfehr in

jw
friends

any ex dubs in the so cal area?

i am in the desert near palm springs.

just had two families over last night (ex dubs all) and we had a great time.

dungbeetle

I be in SoCal...ex-jw capital of the world!!!

(((((tdogg)))))

Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

3

Could someone help me research a few things?

by Leander in

jw
friends

i've heard that the society has changed information in their volumes/cd's from what was originally printed.

can someone give me a few examples of this?.

i'm also looking for scriptural information about the disciples and their misunderstanding of jesus teachings.

dungbeetle

Can't help you with research at this moment BUT...

As far as jesus' disciples making mistakes, they had no 2000 year old Bible to study. learn and get guidance from.

And the Governing body's excuse today IS....?

Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

4

The FDS and NO governing body?!?

by cecil in

jw
friends

in the early 1990's (if i remember correct either 1991 or 1992) there were talks at the district conventions entitled "the faithful and discreet slave" and "the faithful and discreet slave (fds) and its governing body (gb)".

it was a series of talks that covered the issue fds through nearly 2000 years of history.

as usual, these talks became articles (study-articles) in the wt 6-8 months after they were held at the conventions.. the talk i remember best was "the fds and its gb".

dungbeetle

For your reading pleasure:

WT 3/1/99

15 What, though, is the relationship today between the anointed priestly class and such older men who, as part of the great crowd, are serving in positions of oversight? Ezekiel's vision suggests that the elders who are members of the great crowd have a supportive and subordinate role, while the anointed take the spiritual lead. How so? Remember, the priests in the vision were given the responsibility to instruct the people in spiritual matters. They were also told to act as judges in legal cases. Additionally, the Levites were assigned to "posts of oversight" in the temple gates. (Ezekiel 44:11, 23, 24) Clearly, the chieftain was to submit to the spiritual services and leadership of the priests. It is fitting, then, that in modern times the anointed have taken the lead in pure worship. For example, the members of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses have been chosen from among them. Such faithful anointed elders have been training the developing chieftain class for decades, preparing prospective members of this class for the day when they will be delegated their full measure of authority in God's new world to come.

And for more....

17 The words "prince" and "chieftain," which have similar meanings in Hebrew, are not used as titles designed to exalt men. Rather, they describe the responsibility these men bear in caring for God's sheep. Jehovah sternly warns: "That is enough of you, O chieftains of Israel! Remove the violence and the despoiling, and do justice and righteousness themselves." (Ezekiel 45:9) It is good for all elders today to take such counsel to heart. (1 Peter 5:2, 3) The flock, in turn, recognizes that Jesus has provided shepherds as "gifts in men." (Ephesians 4:8) Their qualifications are set down in God's inspired Word. (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9) Christians therefore follow the elders' lead.-Hebrews 13:7.

18 In Bible times some chieftains had much authority, others less. Today, elders of the great crowd have widely varying responsibilities. Some serve in one congregation; others serve many congregations as traveling overseers; others serve whole countries as Branch Committee members; others directly assist various committees of the Governing Body. In the new world, Jesus will appoint "princes in all the earth" to take the lead among Jehovah's worshipers on earth. (Psalm 45:16) No doubt he will select many of these from among the faithful elders of today. Because these men are proving themselves now, he will choose to entrust many with even greater privileges in the future when he reveals the role of the chieftain class in the new world.

Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

82

Has the WTS ever made a prediction that came true?

by Leander in

jw
friends

this morning a thought occured to me "has the society ever made a prediction or prophecy that has come true"?.

most of us are familiar with the prophecies or dates the wts has emphasized in the past.

of course all of those predictions never proved to be accurate so the question is, "if this is god's prophetic organization where is the proof"?.

dungbeetle

Would love a comment on this...When the prediction was made...'millions now living would never die' in the twenties, that prediction has actually NOT come true or been false YET>

The estimates according to (and I will link to this after I've had more coffee) US Institiue on Ageing -I think- are that there are still about 2 million people alive in the US (where most of these people are)but they are in their nineties and how much longer can they last.

If I were God I would NOT allow Armegeddon to come untill these people are dead....don't want to break Rutherford's track record.

toodles

Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...