Posts by pbr

5

blood tranfusions and minors in the uk?

by pbr in

i have been told by a reliable source that minors under the age of 16 cannot refuse life or death treatment within the uk, and that this has been the law since the mid/late 90's.

however i have been under the impression that if a minor can give a judge the impression that he/she fully understands the implications, then refusel of life saving treatment could indeed be granted to a minor.. can anyone shed some light on this?

perferably with documented proof of the law.. thanks in advance.

pbr

thanks Gary

I was told that the Gillick law could only be used for minor decitions such as contraception etc... as in the original case. However I was informed that where life and death decitions were to be made then a minor could NOT refuse life saving treatment, that the courts would ALWAYS over rule in the interests of the child.

I think this is misleading as I think that a judge WOULD listen to a minor and even grant a refusel if said child could demonstate that they understood fully the possible consequences i.e death......does that sound about right to you?

This is a scarey thought as it gives people a false sense of security, that the courts will definately intervene and prevent a child from dying. apart from the case last year of the 14 year old living with his aunt (scott ? can't remember his full name) there doesn't seem to be any cases I can find in the uk. when I brought this case up at a recent seminare I was told that it wouldn't happen in the uk and if it did it might have been before the 1990's I can't help but wonder if this information is wrong.but I can't say any more without some documented evidence to back up what at present is just my theory....any thoughts?

thanks again everyone thats posted

pbr

5

blood tranfusions and minors in the uk?

by pbr in

i have been told by a reliable source that minors under the age of 16 cannot refuse life or death treatment within the uk, and that this has been the law since the mid/late 90's.

however i have been under the impression that if a minor can give a judge the impression that he/she fully understands the implications, then refusel of life saving treatment could indeed be granted to a minor.. can anyone shed some light on this?

perferably with documented proof of the law.. thanks in advance.

pbr

Thanks for the replies guys.

I was thinking along the lines ....if minor and parents were jw's and the minor needed blood could the court still override the minor? could the minor request a refusel and that refusel be granted under the age of 16? or is it cut and dryed that a minor under the age of 16 would not have a viable say?

The answer to this question has a possibility to spill over and effect my work and I need to know where the law definately stands in this arear. I also have concerns that the information I have been told has another layer to it that needs to be explored more fully because A If minors have the right of apeal and are sometimes granted refusel on the grounds that they fully understand what the consequense might be, then this needs to be understood for training purposes. and B. what is being taught at the moment is not current and correct and therefore that brings into question other arears maybe?

thanks guys info is very much appreciated.

pbr

5

blood tranfusions and minors in the uk?

by pbr in

i have been told by a reliable source that minors under the age of 16 cannot refuse life or death treatment within the uk, and that this has been the law since the mid/late 90's.

however i have been under the impression that if a minor can give a judge the impression that he/she fully understands the implications, then refusel of life saving treatment could indeed be granted to a minor.. can anyone shed some light on this?

perferably with documented proof of the law.. thanks in advance.

pbr

Hi all

I have been told by a reliable source that minors under the age of 16 cannot refuse life or death treatment within the uk, and that this has been the law since the mid/late 90's.

However I have been under the impression that if a minor can give a judge the impression that he/she fully understands the implications, then refusel of life saving treatment could indeed be granted to a minor.

can anyone shed some light on this? perferably with documented proof of the law.

thanks in advance

pbr

20

Satan overkill

by Switch in

i remember in my teen years thinking about the constant warnings of satan "transforming himself into an angel of light" and wondering how in the world did i stand a chance against a demon?!

a demon thats had thousands of years to suss things out and trick people in various different ways without them even knowing.

he led angels to rebellion.

pbr

The WBTS like to create a fear of the outside world.

What better way to do that than by making the R&F paranoid about even the most innocent things and people in life?

Creating a mind set of fear of christians means that all the WT's lies stays safe and well hidden, because no one will be open to 'making sure of all things' because they are so fearful of outside influences.....you gotta hand it to them...there good!!!

104

Why do I feel like I'm losing my wife to this website?

by sarabi in

jw
friends

i'm a jw in good standing and she is too.

she has had a lot of questions.

now, i feel like there is a division between us.

pbr

Hi

It sounds as though you are a very kind and caring husband with a thoughtful heart. It is understandable that you would feel somewhat rejected when your wife visits this site. Unfortunately though, not everyone thinks as you do and as a result people have been hurt so very very badly. Let me try to explain: The society have a pyramid structure with those at the top filtering 'truths' down to those that desire to be faithful to Jehovah.

It is so very easy to trust that they (at the top) have God's blessing, and therefore carry out instruction faithfully. However Jesus taught us to keep checking to see if these things are so, and so we have a duty to 'make sure of all things'. This is where things get very difficult because there is no room for questioning the society. there have been many articles about independent thinking, which seems to go in the opposit direction to what Jesus said we should do.

So, what do honest hearted ones do? Well, some do as you have suggested, speak with the Elders and are told to correct their thinking, not to question Gods organization or wait on Jehovah. Other's perhaps fear ( does that have a place in god's approved people, whom Jesus said should 'make sure of all things'?) that they will be judged harshly for asking questions, about Silent Lambs for example. So they do personal research.

Sadly what they uncover is that the society have not mearly made mistakes (we all make them) but more importantly they 'cover them over' often silencing those that would tell the truth.where does one heal from this kind of knowledge that tears at the heart? This site provides a healing balm for a wounded spirit.

When any religion tells a person how to behave, what information they can view, what to think and what emotions they should have, 'it' ( the religion) begins to control you. especially when this is coupled with manipulation and fear ....for example: articles very often have this reasoning....'honest hearted ones would agree' ....(manipulation), and the fear of loosing your stand with Jehovah,loosing your loved ones through shunning or being brutely killed at Armagedon.

I suppose what I'm asking is ...does no questioning, manipulation and fear have a place within God's true organization?

Please don't be too hard on your wife it sounds like she wanted to spare you from the turmoil that comes with knowing the Truth about the 'truth'.Perhaps trying to protect herself too from judgment, and fear of the possible consequenses. Ultimately though, those that come here do so because they are honest hearted ones and do not blindly follow suit. Some are angry, some frustrated, and some are just profoundly sad.

take good care of each other.

X

32

You got to love these emails going around JW land.

by whereami in

jw
friends

friends,.

a co in the w...... congregation said that the reason so many of our brothers are dis-fellowshipped isn't because of wrong doing, it's because the new system isn't a reality.

read this all the way thru, it is truly a dose of what is yet to come.

pbr

Hi

Thought I would add a little onto the first paragraph in an attempt to make it more realistic.....after all it is supposed to be REAL life eh?

'One day of the Real Life'

Nowadays I like getting up with the sun and starting my day while it's
fresh and new. No more hitting that snooze button until the very last
minute and dreading the workday ahead of me! I feel better and better
every day, and I can't help but notice I look better too. I have
several jobs, and today I am privileged to be doing my very favorite
task! Besides studying with newly resurrected ones, I have been
granted the privilege of using my home as a sort of New System Bed and
Breakfast. While the Resurrection Center was being constructed, I had a
house full, 2 couples and two single sisters who lived here with me
temporarily. Now that that work is over, families who live too far away
from the Resurrection Center come and stay with me, sometimes just a few
nights, often a week while their newly resurrected loved ones acclimate
to this wonderful new world. This house has seen so much joy! Although the newly resurrected ones sometime complain that there is a putrid smell to the new house however, I explain that it is just the rotting corpses of the previous owners. We keep them in the basement until the brothers can dispose of their bodies. There has been so much to clear away and I admit (although not overtly) that it was a shock to find a young couple dead along with their two small twin daughters. I claimed this house straight away after Armageddon it was just so very beautiful. I ran down the hill and flew through the front door, only to be stopped in my tracks by the smell and scene that faced me. I think the worse part was how the bodies were huddled together with the father over the top of his family in a futile attempt to protect them. I cried and cried for days after that but brother noheart said that I had a bad attitude. He said I should be grateful that Jehovah had seen fit to wipe them out and that I should change my attitude pronto! He implied that if I didn’t then the elders might have to see to it that I should face the same fate. ( I was secretly surprised that I had felt sadness and that I was feeling a little afraid, but I put it down to not being fully perfect yet) I immediately dried my tears and thanked him for his loving counsel….everyone in the new world is so very kind for taking the time out to speak with me and correct my thinking.

Anyone else want to inject a little reality!?

34

What is my problem......

by loosie in

i just got back from a church talent show that my cousin was in.

but when i hear songs such as " open the eyes of my heart lord" , " i can only imagine" or "jesus take the wheel" why does it make me want to run for the hills?

i hard the hardest time enjoying the song and ignoring the words.

pbr

Hi

Well, I think it could be to do with the way in which you have experienced being in a high control group (cult). For example: Cult's often impinge on our sense of self, demanding that we eat, act, dress etc... a certain way. However, the most damaging area is when they take control over our thinking ability, this is by far the most cruel and demeaning violation of our individuality.

We all have our own sense of self...we often say things like; 'I'm not feeling myself today or 'it's not like me to...' High control groups dismiss our unique self, belittling the way we think and feel by demanding that we all become like the borg. This in turn has a very deep and wounding affect on us either consciously or unconsciously because it fails to validate our own worth.Unconditional love and support is a fundermental requirement in human growth because through it, it allows us the strenghth to love ourselves.

when you hear lyrics such as ' Jesus take the wheel' there is a suggestion that you are to sacrifice a part of your self? Maybe your experience of sacrificing a part of who you are was a very painful one....because you were not treated kindly but rather you were disregarded. perhaps when you hear words to songs like these there is deep unconscious stiring of past hurts?

The organization in affects says ' come to me, I am the way the truth and the light... and then plunges you into total darkness! it also says Come to me all you who are toiling and loaded down and you will find refreshments for your souls.....and then makes your burden 10x's the weight!

No wonder your soul flinches when you hear anything to do with surendering any part of who you are!

take good care of yourself...

69

Be Fair = Witnesses are NOT a cult!! What about Christians or democracy?

by Witness 007 in

jw
friends

people like to throw around the cult word when describing the watchtower society.

but look at the definition of "cult" and you will see it applies to any system of thought concieved by an individual or group to control others.

are christians a jesus cult...yes.

pbr

I agree with most of the replies here. JW's most certainly are a cult! Cults have a pyramid structure where there are those at the top who dictate to those below... how to think act etc... which the Governing body do. There is no honerable way of leaving. If you do leave something bad will hapen to you..i.e the birds will peck out your eyes and those of your children at the big A! They control; behaviour, information,thoughts and emotions BITE which is Steve Hassen's ( a leading cult specialist) criteria for a cult/ high control groups.

If you want to leave religions that are not high control cults there is no question as to your sincerity. You are free to leave because your relationship is with god. with the JW's your relationship is not with god but with the organization!

29

We don't celebrate holidays because ........

by RubaDub in

i just can't stomach the time wasted in meetings and in the literature about the jw stand on holidays.. we try to explain why we don't celebrate christmas, mothers day, halloween, thanksgiving day, etc, etc, etc.. yet in reality, other than the memorial and anniversaries, we don't celebrate anything, regardless of the origins of the holiday.

if a new holiday was created encouraging people to be nice to each other, we still wouldn't celebrate it ... it would be worldly!!!.

all the time and energy put into determining the origins of certains days is just a waste of time.

pbr

The reason that witnesses don't celebrate holidays is in order to keep them seperate. This is what cults do to isolate themselves from society in general. It also serves to keep the individual person from having a sense of themselves i.e. we all have that sense of who we are for example: when we say things like 'i'm not feeling myself today' or it's not like me to...' cult's break down that sense of self, distroys the individual spirit if you like.

One of the typical understanding of cults is that they segregate themselves from society and a rational/ critical thought proceses. most people consider cults therefore to live in communes, however J W's are just sophisticated in their approach.

any how that's my take on it

p.s. yal all have to over look spelling .....I'm dyslexic!

171

Have you changed your mind about ABORTION?

by nicolaou in

i'm not after a discussion on the rights or wrongs on abortion, what i'm asking is whether or not your views have evolved over time.. perhaps leaving the watchtower was enough to allow your true feelings on abortion to find expression.

maybe abortion is one of those subjects where you still find yourself in agreement with your old jw self.

did becoming a mother change your perspective in any way or solidify your views?.

pbr

I feel that involvment in a cult makes a person very black and white in their thinking ( involment in high control groups can be (imho) attractive because we don't have to ponder on emotive dilemas)

Thinking in a 'this is good' and 'this is bad' kind of way gives a right and wrong approach to life. I believe now that there is so much more to dilemas such as abortion that each case should be viewed as individual cases with compassion, empathy and without judgment. Life experience has taught me that it is not just those that 'don't want' their babies that abort ( and there could be a lot of turmoil around why that might be so) but also those parents that desperately want, love and cherish their baby could decide to end a pregnancy because they fear that their child would ultimitally suffer if they were to continued until term. (as in the cases where a child is incompatable with life outside the womb) some times it's not a case of living or dying but rather how a child will die that becomes the ultimate dicision.