Posts by Earnest

13

Judge Rutherfords brother was very naughty.....

by sparky1 in

i found this article online when i was researching information on another post and i am only posting it as an historical item of interest.

it is not intended to slam the judge.. .

i apologize if this has been posted and discussed before..

California passes bill lessening penalty for pedophiles having sex with willing kids.

by mickbobcat in

i was wondering about this.

if california or other far left groups in charge would push for making pedophiles quote normal unquote.

so it passed but has yet to be signed by newsom.

No, Finkelstein. That's what I'm trying to show. A 20 year old who seduces a child under 14 "is guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, six or eight years." (Penal Section 288) The court may also impose an additional fine not exceeding $10,000..

In addition, he will be required to register as a sex offender for life.

70

California passes bill lessening penalty for pedophiles having sex with willing kids.

by mickbobcat in

i was wondering about this.

if california or other far left groups in charge would push for making pedophiles quote normal unquote.

so it passed but has yet to be signed by newsom.

Earnest

So this Bill does not apply to any child victim under the age of 14.

That's exactly what the Bill says. The Bill says that the provision not to register as a sex offender applies to section 286 (b), section 287 (b) and section 289 (h) (i) except as provided in section 288 (read the sections).

Section 288 is the section that deals with sexual abuse of children under the age of 14, which means sexual crimes against minors under the age of 14 are excepted from this provision..

Simon : Here's an idea: stop carrying water for pedos.

Frankly I have no interest in American politics, but sometimes blatant misrepresentation gets under my skin and so I have my say. Is it really necessary to be insulting when your posting rules do not allow that of others?

70

California passes bill lessening penalty for pedophiles having sex with willing kids.

by mickbobcat in

i was wondering about this.

if california or other far left groups in charge would push for making pedophiles quote normal unquote.

so it passed but has yet to be signed by newsom.

Earnest

Simon : The bill does not mention "15-17 year olds", it says "minor" and "within 10 years", so would be applicable to an 18 year old and an 8 year old child.

Crimes of sexual conduct with a minor under the age of 14 are prosecuted under the Penal Code § 288 as a “lewd and lascivious act with a minor.” Sex offender registration is mandatory even if the conduct was "consensual".

So this Bill does not apply to any child victim under the age of 14.

At the moment sex offender registration is also mandatory for crimes of sexual conduct other than sexual intercourse (sodomy, oral copulation or sexual penetration) with a minor 14 years or older, even if the conduct was consensual and the minor was within ten years of the offender.

However, If the minor is 14 years or older and there is consensual sexual intercourse with an adult (older than 17) then the prosecution is for unlawful sexual intercourse under Penal Code § 261.5 and sex offender registration is not mandatory if the minor is within ten years of the offender. but it remains for the judge to evaluate.

The purpose of the Bill in question is to treat those who have some sort of consensual sex (other than intercourse) with a minor, 14 years or older, in the same way as those who have intercourse with a minor are treated, as far as sex offender registration is concerned. Nothing more nor less.

Please note I should have qualified minors affected by this Bill as 14 to 17-years-old, rather than 15 to 17. I had in mind it was older than 14 but it is 14 and older.

70

California passes bill lessening penalty for pedophiles having sex with willing kids.

by mickbobcat in

i was wondering about this.

if california or other far left groups in charge would push for making pedophiles quote normal unquote.

so it passed but has yet to be signed by newsom.

Earnest

Simon : I can't think of a scenario where they should not be put on the sex offenders registry.

That is why the evaluation is done by a judge who has the necessary education and experience. More to the point is whether you can think of a scenario where an adult (someone older than 17) has consensual vaginal intercourse with a 15 to 17-year-old should not be put on the sex offenders registry.

If you can think of such a scenario then how do you justify the distinction? If you cannot think of such a scenario then you lack the legal knowledge and experience because the law already requires such an evaluation.

12

Dutch JW publish open letter protesting accusations of mishandling child abuse and government inquiry

by Anders Andersen in

today watchtower netherlands published an open letter in a national newspaper, lamenting the accusations about them not handling child abuse issues very well.. they protest a scientific report made by utrecht university (by request of the government).. they protest almost everything our minister of justice has said about them.. they place themselves in the role of victims of unfair treatment, discrimination.. they point their finger a other religions (foremost the catholic church) because they are much worse.. they refer to jw being persecuted in wwii, as if that were relevant to the issue at hand.. all in all, they (probably) spent about 25k to 30k euro to publish their bullshit in a national newspaper.. not a single trace of any self-awareness, let alone even a hint of an apology.

quite the contrary.. they suck.. the minister of justice tweeted "this is exactly the problem: they spend money on lawsuits and expensive ads instead of improving help for victims #fail".. see the translation of the jw letter here: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/ilair1/open_dutch_letter_a_little_better_english.

Earnest

mickbobcat : California seems to be allowing pedophiles as legitimate.

Please see my response to the thread you started. Always check your sources, they probably have an agenda.

70

California passes bill lessening penalty for pedophiles having sex with willing kids.

by mickbobcat in

i was wondering about this.

if california or other far left groups in charge would push for making pedophiles quote normal unquote.

so it passed but has yet to be signed by newsom.

Earnest

Read the bill before jumping on the bus.

SB 145 has nothing to do with normalising or decriminalising pedophilia. It would not change the illegality of intercourse or the potential sentence for having sex with an underage person. Instead, the bill would give judges the ability to evaluate whether an adult accused of oral or anal sex, who is within ten years of a 15 to 17-year-old, be required to register as a sex offender, which judges already evaluate in similar cases involving vaginal intercourse.

12

Dutch JW publish open letter protesting accusations of mishandling child abuse and government inquiry

by Anders Andersen in

today watchtower netherlands published an open letter in a national newspaper, lamenting the accusations about them not handling child abuse issues very well.. they protest a scientific report made by utrecht university (by request of the government).. they protest almost everything our minister of justice has said about them.. they place themselves in the role of victims of unfair treatment, discrimination.. they point their finger a other religions (foremost the catholic church) because they are much worse.. they refer to jw being persecuted in wwii, as if that were relevant to the issue at hand.. all in all, they (probably) spent about 25k to 30k euro to publish their bullshit in a national newspaper.. not a single trace of any self-awareness, let alone even a hint of an apology.

quite the contrary.. they suck.. the minister of justice tweeted "this is exactly the problem: they spend money on lawsuits and expensive ads instead of improving help for victims #fail".. see the translation of the jw letter here: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/ilair1/open_dutch_letter_a_little_better_english.

Earnest

There is a better translation of the JW letter into English here.

One must wonder what on earth did the Minister for Legal Protection write to the House of Representatives in order for the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Holland to take out a full-page ad in response.

Fortunately, we know. The letter, in Dutch, is available here.

My translation with a smattering of Dutch and the help of Google follows. If you quote from my translation you should first verify it with the original.

To the President of the House of Representatives
of the States General
Box 20018
2500 EA THE HAGUE

Date 27 August 2020
Topic Response to Signs of Sexual Abuse [within the] Jehovah's Witnesses community

Sexual abuse is a serious crime. The crime has an enormous impact on the victims which can have consequences for years, if not lifelong. The impact will be even greater if the perpetrator can continue freely and the victim does not receive care or support. The likelihood of this is significant if the crime occurs within a relatively closed community, where problems of this nature are kept secret and "self-resolved".

In early 2017, the first signs of sexual abuse were made public within the community of Jehovah's Witnesses. Not only was there sexual abuse of minors, but this abuse was kept quiet by [the elders] within the community and so did not become known to the police. I then informed the [Branch Committee] of Jehovah's Witnesses of their responsibility and insisted that they set up an independent investigation. Disappointedly the [Branch Committee] refused. Subsequently, I proposed a motion to the House to implement an investigation which was carried out by Utrecht University. I provided the results of this investigation to the House of Representatives on 23 January 2020. [Parliamentary papers II 2019/20, 348 43, no. 39]. In addition, in response to a motion of the House, I have carried out research into broadening the obligations of the declaration. I sent this investigation to the House on 21 November 2019 [Parliamentary papers II 2019/20, 292 79, no. 553].

Based on the research into the willingness to report sexual abuse within the community of Jehovah's Witnesses, it has become clear that there are reasons to assume that filing a report is made more difficult by the closed nature of the community. In addition, the problems in handling reports of sexual abuse are also related to the closed culture of Jehovah's Witnesses. This worrying conclusion prompted me to make one last engagement with the [Branch Committee] of the Jehovah's Witnesses community, as I have already informed the House [Parliamentary papers II 2019/20, 348 43, no. 39]. That conversation took place on February 14th. I informed the [Branch Committee] that action is needed and that that action, as in other faith communities such as the Catholic Church, must come from the responsible (church) authorities themselves. Specifically, I have asked the [Branch Committee] to set up an internal hotline which victims can easily find and report and be supported on the way to find professional help.

The board reacted negatively to this in a letter dated 5 March. It found the recommendation for a hotline premature, coming from what in their eyes is false and slanderous research. For the full response of the Jehovah's Witnesses I refer you to the appendix. Instead of taking action the [Branch Committee] chose to challenge the investigation in the civil court. The judge found their challenge unsuccessful, and also on appeal [On August 4, 2020, the court of appeal considered, among other things, that the claim that a correction of the investigation should be sent to your Chamber is not allowed by the constitution]. I think it is incomprehensible that the [Branch Committee] adopts this attitude and it makes it clear to me that they do not see or want to see the seriousness of the situation. The [Branch Committee] leaves vulnerable victims out in the cold. In addition, it makes the path to justice and official aid agencies more difficult for victims of sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witness community. I don't like this. I expect every board of an organization, including the community of Jehovah's Witnesses, to do everything in their power to combat sexual abuse and support victims. I must therefore conclude that it is now up to me to take further action.

First of all, I would like to repeat my appeal to all victims and others who have knowledge of sexual abuse to report it to the police. Both the police and the Public Prosecution Service take cases of sexual abuse extremely seriously. My earlier call has resulted in the Public Prosecution handling 13 cases so far where members or ex-members of the Jehovah's Witnesses are involved. This has resulted in 2 convictions to date.

The actions that I will describe below are aimed to follow the researchers' recommendations. This is the recommendation to Jehovah's Witnesses to establish an internal hotline and the recommendations of the researchers to the government (inform relevant parties, institute follow-up investigation and introduce legal regulations). All these actions aim to contribute to better protection of the members within the community of Jehovah's Witnesses from sexual abuse by breaking through the closed culture.

Creating a low-threshold facility where victims can easily report and receive support
The [Branch Committee] of Jehovah's Witnesses is unwilling to set up an internal hotline to ensure that victims of sexual abuse within the faith community can easily access expert help and are guided in choosing an agency outside the faith community. This was one of the recommendations that the researchers made to Jehovah's Witnesses. Therefore I'm going to ensure that victims of sexual abuse in closed communities can access emotional, legal and practical support. For this I will strengthen the hotline "Break the Silence" of Victim Support Netherlands. This hotline was set up after the report on the Samsom Committee on abuse in youth care. I have asked Victim Support Netherlands to expand the reporting center with specific expertise on closed communities. The Reclaimed Voices Foundation, with whom I recently spoke, will also play a role in expanding the support structure for victims of sexual abuse within closed communities. I'm going to provide the Reclaimed Voices Foundation with financial resources for their activities to support victims of sexual abuse within the community.

Informing relevant parties and thereby increasing the vigilance of authorities to be able to offer victims protection
I think it is important that other parties are also alert to signals of sexual abuse within the community of Jehovah's Witnesses. That is why I am going to actively review the results and bring it to the attention of the GGD [Public Health Service] and the police, as recommended by the researchers. I have also informed the Ministry of Education, Culture and Science about the recommendation that schools can also play a role in strengthening the position of children and adolescents from the community of Jehovah's Witnesses. They in turn will bring this to the attention of the Inspectorate of Education and the School & Safety Foundation [The School & Safety Foundation supports schools in promoting a safe climate in their social environment. They do this by providing current information and expert advice through the website, training courses, conferences and a helpdesk].

Follow-up research
The research provides an initial picture of the mechanisms that play a role in the willingness to report and the handling of reports within a closed community. However, the investigation could not establish the truth and it is unknown how representative and topical the picture is. The researchers therefore indicate that accurate quantitative follow-up research is important, however difficult this is. The WODC will investigate or follow-up research recommended by the researchers as possible and feasible. In any case, I want to ask the WODC to repeat the current research next year to get a picture that is as current as possible of the situation within the community.

Legally enshrining the moral duty and responsibility of directors within private organizations to report sexual abuse
Ideally, I would have liked to see Jehovah's Witnesses [Branch Committee] ensure that sexual abuse is reported to the appropriate authorities. A movement is, after all, most effective working from the inside. As the [Branch Committee] refuses to take action
I want to impose reporting from the outside if possible. For this I want to introduce a new legal regulation. This scheme serves the social responsibility of boards of private organizations in the event of sexual abuse. It will be a legal requirement and institutional responsibility for directors to report knowledge of sexual abuse. Failure to comply with this reporting obligation will be a crime. This would tie in the findings from the investigation with the extension of the declaration obligation. Some complex issues, however, still raise a barrier before I submit a statutory regulation to the House. The definition of "private organizations" among other things, and the question when reporting must be done, or in what form reporting is required. It is also important that it is clear to whom the report must be made and to what form of sexual abuse the reporting obligation applies. Different sectors and organizations in our society apply standards (whether or not mandatory) to combat the sexual abuse of minors; how does this new arrangement relate to this? And finally, the financial and organizational consequences of such a proposal must be considered. I aim to inform the House about this by the end of 2020. The commitment made during the VAO Zeden of 6 June 2018 is relevant in this context. The members Van der Staaij and Buitenweg have submitted a motion in that debate requesting to investigate whether general guidelines can be formulated for organizations working with (suspicions of) sexual violence in which it is explicit what may be expected of them to meet their moral obligations. I then promised to research the expediency of drawing up such a guideline. In the appendix attached to this letter you will find the inventory that was produced as part of that study. This shows that in every sector attention is paid to the problem of sexual violence and that various rules and instruments are used to combat sexual violence. I maintain that the legal duty to report that extends beyond such a guideline, especially in view of the general and non-binding character of a directive. That is why I do not consider a directive to be added value on top of a duty to report.

Victims of sexual abuse in the Netherlands have, regardless of the community to which they belong, the same right to help, care and justice. This shouldn't be any different for members within the community of Jehovah's Witnesses just because the administration itself is so reprehensible. This therefore requires action from the government for boards of this kind to legally compel organizations to report sexual abuse where necessary.

The Minister for Legal Protection,

Sander Dekker

In this letter there are two appendices. The first is the full response of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Holland to recommendations in their letter of March 5 here. The second appendix is an inventory of how organizations prevent and report sexual abuse which can be accessed here. Both are in Dutch.

64

William Miller

by lepavoux in

" this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

!.

Earnest

Annie : Barbour already knew of the 1873 date. It was common in the literature, which Barbour well knew.

Annie, I am greatly indebted to you, your mum, and especially to Bruce Schulz for the enormous amount of research provided on Barbour and others who influenced Russell. But Barbour says he reached the 1873 date while at sea, prior to consulting Horae. I previously quoted what he wrote in Evidences for the Coming of the Lord in 1873; or the Midnight Cry, pp.32,33:

The midnight cry, or coming of the Lord in 1873, began on the sea... In our explanation [of the 1,290 days in Daniel 12] in 1843, why did we begin the thousand years thirty years before the abomination was set up? Here is our mistake; and it is one of thirty years. The days end in '73, not '43. All this came in a moment. From that hour, says the brother [i.e. Barbour], the whole truth of our position was made clear.

Now Barbour reached London at the end of this voyage in 1860 and he wrote Evidences for the Coming of the Lord in 1873, Or Midnight Cry in 1870. So he had ten years when he may well have read much or all of the literature to which you refer. But if he reached the 1873 date on board ship, as he says he did, then he did it without the benefit of Elliott, Bowen, et al. The only person he credits by name is Miller. He says in Evidences for the Coming of the Lord in 1873, Or Midnight Cry, pp.33,34

I do not say 1873 had not been mentioned prior to that. Bro. Miller stated soon after 1843 had past, "that he could see no light this side of 1873"; and others may have said as much, or more, at that early day. But as a persistent cry, so far as at present known to the writer [i.e. Barbour], it began as above stated, early in the midnight hour..

What difference does it make? None. But it is not correct to say that Barbour/Russell was not influenced by Miller and the Second Adventists.

64

William Miller

by lepavoux in

" this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

!.

Earnest

Annie : Barbour tells us that he got his chronology from a table drawn up by Christopher Bowen to fit the work of E. B. Elliott. Both of these men were Anglican Clergy, never Adventists.

You are, of course, correct in what you have said above but Barbour actually derived the 1873 date before reading Elliott's Horae Apocalypticae. He recounts in Evidences for the Coming of the Lord in 1873; or the Midnight Cry, 2nd ed. (Rochester, 1871), pp.32,33:

The midnight cry, or coming of the Lord in 1873, began on the sea...The vessel left Australia with an advent brother on board [i.e. Barbour], who had lost his religion, and been for many years in total darkness. To wile away the monotony of a long sea voyage, the English chaplain proposed a systematic reading of the prophecies, to which the brother readily assented; for, having been a Millerite in former years, he knew right well there were arguments it would puzzle the chaplain to answer, even though the time had passed.
When they came to the 12th of Daniel, the brother saw what he had never seen before, though he had read it a hundred times. "From the time the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." In our explanation of this in 1843, why did we begin the thousand years thirty years before the abomination was set up? Here is our mistake; and it is one of thirty years. The days end in '73, not '43. All this came in a moment. From that hour, says the brother, the whole truth of our position was made clear.
On arriving in London, he went to the library of the British Museum, and among many other extensive works on the prophecies, found Elliott's Horae Apocalypticae, which at that time, 1860, was a standard work; advocating 1866 as the time for the coming of the Lord. There the chronology was found as now given in these pages, with some slight additional proof.

So, I think it would be correct to say, as far as Barbour was concerned, that he initially derived 1873 as the year of Christ's coming from the prophetic periods that Miller had used in his calculations, and this was subsequently confirmed by Elliott's chronology which ended 6,000 years in 1873.

Many others pointed to 1873 but Barbour reached the date simply by reading Daniel together with his background knowledge as a Millerite of the prophetic periods. When nothing happened in 1873, Barbour also independently proposed 1874 as the target year in an article entitled The 1873 Time in the Advent Christian Times of November 11, 1873.

It should also be noted that although Elliott suggested 1914 as a possible date for the end of the Gentile Times, he reckoned the 2,520 years from Nebuchadnezzar's accession year, which he dated to 606 B.C.E. However, Barbour reckoned the 2,520 years from the desolation of Jerusalem in Nebuchadnezzar's 18th regnal year, which he dated to 606 B.C.E. and so calculated 1914 by a different chronology. As far as I know it was only Barbour who had dated Nebuchadnezzar's 18th regnal year as 606 B.C.E. at that time.