Posts by Earnest

21

Need help...Resurrection JW beliefs from the 50'6 and 60's.

by Snoozy in

was talking with a gal that is most likely going back to the religion after 20 or 30 years.

we got into a discussion about having babies after "armageddon ".

she was talking about being normal ( she is practically bedridden but only in her 50's.

Earnest

In a Question from Readers in the Watchtower of 15 August 2014 it says :

For years, our publications have said that Jesus’ words about the resurrection and getting married likely refer to the earthly resurrection and that those resurrected to life in the new world will evidently not marry. [e.g. The Watchtower, June 1, 1987] (Matt. 22:29, 30; Mark 12:24, 25; Luke 20:34-36) While we cannot be dogmatic, is it possible that Jesus’ words refer to the heavenly resurrection? Let us examine what Jesus said.

It then discusses several questions which that raises, including :

Third, if Jesus’ words about the resurrection and getting married apply to the heavenly resurrection, does this mean that those who come back in the earthly resurrection will be able to marry? God’s Word does not give a direct answer to that specific question. If Jesus was, in fact, talking about the heavenly resurrection, then his words do not shed any light on whether resurrected ones on earth will be able to marry in the new world.

16

2700 years ago Jews ate pigs

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

from haaretz newspaper:.

what does a pig skeleton discovered in jerusalem say about first temple era jews?.

the argument here is that sanctions on eating pork were only introduced in the 2nd temple era.. so what does that tell you bout biblical accuracy.. .

Earnest

An abstract of the article written by the archaeologists responsible for this discovery in Near Eastern Archaeology says :

Recent studies that reviewed data on pig frequencies in correlation to the subphases of the Iron Age have shown that while frequencies of pork consumption fluctuated in the Northern Kingdom, it remained constantly low in Judah throughout the Iron Age. In Jerusalem, the capital of Judah, low frequencies or absence of pigs (0–2 percent of livestock) were found in all excavated sites.

Whenever the Bible was actually written, we know that although the First Temple-period Israelites believed in the God of the Bible, they also worshipped other deities and liberally made figurines and other graven images, ostensibly banned by the Second Commandment. If they worshipped other deities then eating the odd pork sausage now and again is no evidence that the law against doing so didn't yet exist.

37

Love the don't use a gun for self defence by Gary Bro

by mickbobcat in

i just watched that stupid talk by gary while e bro on not using a gun for self defense but it went deeper.

i was that you don't defend yourself against violence.

well ain't that great from an asshat living in a gated and guarded compound.

Earnest

It does not surprise me that you are better versed in Watchtower theology than I am, TD, but as I do not have access to the private letters you mention I cannot really comment on them. But it does seem clear to me that Jesus was specifically saying that their having swords was a fulfillment of prophecy. After all, you wouldn't identify someone having a money bag as lawless, or someone having a food pouch, but you may well identify someone having a sword as being lawless. Especially if he was resisting arrest or cutting off ears.

Your reasons that it is implausible that Jesus was talking about the immediate situation rather than a more general preparedness are all good (if I have understood you correctly), but his disciples thought he was talking about that moment because they said "Lord, look, here are two swords". And his reply "It is enough" also refers to their immediate situation. I dunno. What Jesus says doesn't always make sense to me. But in this case it does show how his disciples understood him regardless of the assumptions it leaves in its wake.

37

Love the don't use a gun for self defence by Gary Bro

by mickbobcat in

i just watched that stupid talk by gary while e bro on not using a gun for self defense but it went deeper.

i was that you don't defend yourself against violence.

well ain't that great from an asshat living in a gated and guarded compound.

Earnest

TD : What is the JW explanation of Luke 22:36 these days?

Luke 22:35-38 says :

He also said to them: “When I sent you out without a money bag and a food pouch and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said: “No!” Then he said to them: “But now let the one who has a money bag take it, likewise a food pouch, and let the one who has no sword sell his outer garment and buy one. For I tell you that what is written must be accomplished in me, namely, ‘He was counted with lawless ones.’ [Isaiah 53:12] For this is being fulfilled concerning me.” Then they said: “Lord, look! here are two swords.” He said to them: “It is enough.”

In the first instance, then, it was fulfilling prophecy. But when Jesus says "It is enough", what is it enough for? Eleven verses later it says :

When those around him saw what was going to happen, they said: “Lord, should we strike with the sword?” One of them even struck the slave of the high priest, taking off his right ear. But in reply Jesus said: “That is enough.” And he touched the ear and healed him.

The account in John 18:10,11 says :

Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the slave of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. The name of the slave was Malchus. Jesus, however, said to Peter: “Put the sword into its sheath. Should I not drink the cup that the Father has given me?”

The account in Matthew 26:51,52 says :

But look! one of those with Jesus reached out his hand and drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest, taking off his ear. Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take up the sword will perish by the sword."

The explanation in the Watchtower is that Jesus told them to have a sword when they went to the Garden of Gethsemane to demonstrate that he could have resorted to weapons for self-defense if he condoned it, but didn't.

17

Then there was light.

by Earnest in

jw
friends

the universe came into being 13.8 billion years ago in the big bang.

after an initial flash, it went through a period known as the cosmic dark ages.

according to a new study, probing cosmic dawn, 250 to 350 million years after the big bang the first stars emerged bringing light to the cosmos.

Earnest

Sea Breeze : Your post assumes a Big Bang as a starting point.

It's true there are other theories as to how the material universe began. But they have to explain why the universe is expanding as shown by the red shift. When an object moves away from us, the light is shifted to the red end of the spectrum, as its wavelengths get longer. If an object moves closer, the light moves to the blue end of the spectrum, as its wavelengths get shorter. The evidence is that everything is moving away i.e. the universe is expanding. That must have had a starting point and the most widely accepted explanation in the scientific community is that of the Big Bang.

36

Converted Greek Philosopher Explains Christianity in 125 AD

by Sea Breeze in

i ran across a pretty early treatise.

we were all taught that "real" christianity was lost to history and was only restored once russell and then rutherford restored it so that the wt could be appointed as god's "mouthpiece".

but, aristides wrote to the emperor hadrian and gave a pretty good synopsis of core christian belief in 125 ad.

Earnest

A comparison of The Apology of Aristides in Syriac, Greek and Armenian helps clarify how the interpolation "God came down from heaven" in the Syriac came about.

Syriac : The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man.

Greek : Now the Christians trace their origin from the Lord Jesus Christ. And He is acknowledged by the Holy Spirit to be the son of the most high God, who came down from heaven for the salvation of men. And being born of a pure virgin, unbegotten and immaculate, He assumed flesh and revealed himself among men that He might recall them to Himself from their wandering after many gods.

Armenian : But the Christians are race-reckoned from the Lord Jesus Christ. He is Son of God on high, Who was manifested by the Holy Spirit : from heaven having come down ; and from a Hebrew virgin having been born : having taken his flesh from the virgin, and having been manifested by the nature of this humanity [as] the Son of God.

When you have different text traditions of a passage it is not too difficult to identify where there have been changes. If the texts on which the Greek and Armenian versions are based originally had "God came down from heaven" there is no reason they would have changed that as it supported their trinitarian theology.

14

Kingdom Hall in Barrington, Illinois

by Expanded-Mind in

jw
friends

i often drive past a kingdom hall in barrington, illinois, where, when i was still a witness, i had visited a few times.

it wasn't too far from the hall i attended and we got to know people from this congregation.. i recently passed it by and it appeared there was a new sign in place.

yesterday i decided to pull into the parking lot on my way home, and it appears that the hall has been sold and is now occupied by seventh day adventists (i did a check online when i got home).

Earnest

truth_b_known : I also find it ironic that the Seventh Day Adventists are now using the old Kingdom Hall. Aren't they one of the splinter groups of the International Bible Students after the hostile takeover of the Watchtower by Rutherford?

No. The Seventh Day Adventists were never part of the IBSA, Bible Students or Jehovah's Witnesses. They were a splinter group from the Second Adventists, also known as the Millerites, and share some beliefs and eschatological speculation of the Witnesses.

17

Then there was light.

by Earnest in

jw
friends

the universe came into being 13.8 billion years ago in the big bang.

after an initial flash, it went through a period known as the cosmic dark ages.

according to a new study, probing cosmic dawn, 250 to 350 million years after the big bang the first stars emerged bringing light to the cosmos.

Earnest

WokenfromJWcult : What was existing 13.9 billion years ago?

Or, to rephrase that, what was there before light?

The same Bible verse says And God said: 'Let there be light.' Then there was light.

So, before light (roughly 13.8 billion years ago) there was God. As waton pointed out, energy is indestructible. It can be converted to matter, or matter can be converted to energy. But why did it happen when it happened? Personally I find the premise that God got the ball rolling to be the most reasonable. There are other ideas. Lawrence Krauss wrote a book on why there is something rather than nothing in his book - a universe from nothing - but I did not find it convincing. If there was not nothing there must have been something.

156

Remembering Rutherford

by Sea Breeze in

he seems to me to be the angriest and most ill-tempered of all the wt presidents, especially after his stint in prison and failed prophecies.. “regarding his misguided statements as to what we could expect in 1925, he [rutherford] once confessed to us at bethel, “i made an ass of myself.”” watchtower 1984 oct 1 p.24.

rutherford died at beth sarim on january 8, 1942, at the age of 72.

[220] cause of death was...carcinoma of the rectum..."[21] .

Earnest

TD : Fred Franz declared in a 1940's court case that Jehovah was the editor of The Watchtower when in truth old Freddie was really the editor.

There was a whole thread on this nineteen years ago, linked here. Still worth reading for context of the statement.

12

Money for sell of KHs

by asp59 in

has anybody seen a chart or documents abouth money they supposedly spending in africa building halls?

as there selling millions worth of halls around the world.

they claim it's for africa.

Earnest

In the 2019 service year there were 809 newly built Kingdom Halls and 1,190 renovations. Building work was suspended in March 2020 when restrictions due to covid-19 were implemented.