Posts by Earnest

10

Help needed - Did the GB receive Covid money?

by iwasblind in

this is not a political post regarding the vax jab, (let's not go there) but i personally know many who were disturbed by the gb pushing it in the update #7. .

it is odd as they never really get involved and always do the stupid "conscious" thing whenever they don't want to take responsibility.. then i saw this article - https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/08/03/898753550/religious-groups-received-6-10-billion-in-covid-19-relief-funds-hope-for-more?t=1632597803079&fbclid=iwar0ly8k1fb3cdgknmmxs9aruz-wtex6sir9_uz2uxofkae4iyk7sm5r1ndu&t=1632598929611.

there is a report with itemized churches and the amounts they were given.

Earnest

The "more complete" list that Anony Mous provided above only includes companies who received loans over $150,000 at the moment. It does suggest that it will include loans under $150,000 in the future.

The companies listed at the moment include two with the word "Watchtower", namely Watchtower Security, Inc and Watchtower LLC.

Watchtower Security, Inc is a managed video surveillance company specializing in meeting the specific security needs for the multi-family housing industry. Watchtower LLC is part of the Computer Systems Design and Related Services Industry.

Nothing to see here relating to the Watchtower Society or its affiliates at the moment. When the list includes loans under $150,000 then it may be worth looking at again.

17

Does anyone have a copy of the Jan 1st 1989 Watchtower I can buy

by mickbobcat in

i want to buy a copy not a copy of one but the actual copy of a 1989 jan 1st watchtower.

let me know i would like to have one to show someone i am talking to about it.

.

Earnest

A digital copy of the English magazine can be seen here. It is the entire January 1, 1989, issue of both the original Watchtower magazine and the bound volume.

10

Help needed - Did the GB receive Covid money?

by iwasblind in

this is not a political post regarding the vax jab, (let's not go there) but i personally know many who were disturbed by the gb pushing it in the update #7. .

it is odd as they never really get involved and always do the stupid "conscious" thing whenever they don't want to take responsibility.. then i saw this article - https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/08/03/898753550/religious-groups-received-6-10-billion-in-covid-19-relief-funds-hope-for-more?t=1632597803079&fbclid=iwar0ly8k1fb3cdgknmmxs9aruz-wtex6sir9_uz2uxofkae4iyk7sm5r1ndu&t=1632598929611.

there is a report with itemized churches and the amounts they were given.

Earnest

The report shows that the Catholic Church was quite proactive in taking advantage of the Paycheck Protection Program. The report says :

Churches of all denominations and other religious nonprofits were quick to take advantage of the Paycheck Protection Program, which provided forgivable loans under the CARES Act in March. The U.S. Catholic Church alone received at least $1.4 billion in funding and possibly as much as $3.5 billion under the program, according to an analysis by the Associated Press, using data provided by the Small Business Administration (SBA).

It doesn't seem that the Watchtower Society or affiliates were major beneficiaries. However, the government's data didn't name recipients of loans under $150,000 so until a complete list of beneficiaries is provided it is impossible to say whether the Watchtower Society benefited from this at all.

15

What Do They Have in Common?: Covington/ Muhammed Ali / Disfellowship policy

by Terry in

covington / muhammed ali / disfellowship (what do they have in common?

)“hayden c. covington, one of the most influential figures in the history of first amendment law.

beyond the numerous first amendment cases he argued or co-argued in the supreme court, he also prevailed on behalf of the witnesses in over “100 decisions handed down by various state supreme courts, and .

Earnest

EdenOne,

The article "Use Theocratic War Strategy" in the 1957 Watchtower (5/1 pp. 285-286) refers to the 1956 Watchtower (2/1 pp. 76-90) in the footnotes.

The 1956 Watchtower contains the study article "Cautious as Serpents Among Wolves" which spends fifty paragraphs discussing how we are to be cautious as serpents with many Bible examples. It uses the expression "war strategy" five times, and the word "strategy" fourteen times (including "war strategy") in the article. This was a positive endorsement of what has become known as theocratic strategy or warfare.

54

Allegheny Pyramid Desecrated

by RolRod in

sometime within the last 2 weeks, someone took a sledgehammer to the pyramid monument in allegheny.

they stole the topstone, smashed the cross and crown emblem and removed the seal.. personally i'm surprised it lasted this long untouched.

although through the years russell's grave has been vandalized, it was always repaired by the bible students..

Earnest

Slidin Fast, Russell's grave with head stone is still near to the site where the pyramid was, as can be seen in this video.

here.

99

onacruise - Craig Mills 1952-2011

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

i was given the link to a bit of information regarding on old poster/moderator of this forum.

i was not sure of the validity of the information so have been trying to find out if it is true.. earlier today craig's estranged wife, kate, (bikerchic) confirmed that craig died at his home on aug 10, 2011.. i am sure that many people here remember craig's time here and how he went out of his way to offer support to posters, even calling them, to give whatever help he could as they adjusted to their post-jw lives.. i know many people here will grieve his loss.. --------------.

ps i tried posting this earlier but the computer i was working with would not allow the posts.

Earnest

In that case I'll try again. There have been many on this site who have influenced me through the years but most have remained behind the internet wall. Craig went out of his way and added the human touch by phoning and talking about things for hours. He also shared a lot of his personal life, including his marriage, on JWD. I know that there are many others who have passed and who should also be remembered, but each year I try to remind the board of this scholar, saint and sinner all roled into one who we had in our midst and lost too soon.

25

Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says - BBC News

by ballistic in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270.

this item just featured on the bbc lunchtime news today as the headline story and the piece included a reporter who singled out jehovah's witnesses for discussion from the 30 organisations covered by the report.

the news item then went on to feature an extensive interview ex elder and ex jehovah's witness writer lloyd evans..

Earnest

Hi jhine, your questions are natural given the limited information I provided and I certainly don't think you are confrontational.

I was not familiar with the details of this case but did know it concerned an allegation in 2006. My post was a response to Biahi's statement that they were liars in saying to the IICSA that their current policy is mandatory reporting "if a kid is in danger".

The case against the two elders for not reporting the abuse was scheduled for July 28 this year but the State requested it be postponed until September 23. So, we will know more then whether anyone cared and whether they acted responsibly. However, I have managed to piece together some details of the case from reports in the Chicago Tribune on 23 October 2019 and 20 December 2019.

I should note that what happened to this little girl over a period of nearly thirteen years is chilling and heart-wrenching, but in answering the question about the time it took for the elders to report the abuse we have to ask what they knew and when they knew it. According to the girl's testimony the abuse by a family member started in 2005 when she was 6. At some point she told her mother of the abuse and on 27 July 2006 the elders of the congregation were informed. They intervened and the abuse stopped for a short time. But soon the assaults started up again and escalated. The perpetrator threatened her that if she ever reported the assaults again he would kill her, her mother and her brother. I understand from the newspaper account that she didn't report the ongoing abuse to anyone again until October 2018 which was when the elders reported it to the police.

How could no-one know what was going on. There are two paragraphs in the October 2019 newspaper report which explain it :

Hernandez-Pedraza’s attorney, Assistant Public Defender Angelo Mourelatos, told jurors in opening statements that the girl at one point lived in the basement of a home with 10 people and no one reported seeing or hearing anything.

The girl later moved to an apartment with her family but said the assaults continued and intensified. She said the assaults occurred in the daytime when no one else was home and many times, as she got older, Hernandez-Pedraza made her take a pregnancy test.

In trying to understand the course the elders took I am not minimising the gravity of any form of abuse of a 6-year-old girl. But the elders claim that while the "most serious" acts occurred between 2013 and 2018, they knew nothing beyond the initial allegation they heard on 27 July 2006.

So, it isn't a case of the elders knowing of ongoing abuse for thirteen years and not reporting it to the authorities, but one where they immediately took action within the congregation when they first heard of it in 2006 and believed the abuse had ended. That doesn't let anyone off the hook but it makes it more understandable on a human level.

25

Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says - BBC News

by ballistic in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270.

this item just featured on the bbc lunchtime news today as the headline story and the piece included a reporter who singled out jehovah's witnesses for discussion from the 30 organisations covered by the report.

the news item then went on to feature an extensive interview ex elder and ex jehovah's witness writer lloyd evans..

Earnest

Vidiot, when Paul Gillies testified before the Commission, p.40, he said that if the inquiry recommends a form of mandatory reporting and parliament agrees, then Jehovah's Witnesses will comply with whatever the terms are of the mandatory reporting law, as they currently do in the country of Ireland.

Section H.2 (para. 36) of the IICSA report on "Matters to be explored further by the Inquiry" says that mandatory reporting as well as vetting and barring will be addressed in the final report.

Personally, I think that the Watchtower Society and most elders would prefer it to be mandatory because then everyone knows where they stand. If it was mandatory and you tell an elder of child sexual abuse, either now or in the distant past, then you know the secular authorities would be informed. In my personal opinion I don't think that is always a good thing because it may mean that some who were sexually abused in their childhood and are now suffering mental, emotional and spiritual trauma as a result, will just keep it to themselves rather than risk the added trauma of recalling the details for a police investigation and the subsequent publicity. That will be of no help to the victim or to the wider society who will remain ignorant of the abuse.

25

Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says - BBC News

by ballistic in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270.

this item just featured on the bbc lunchtime news today as the headline story and the piece included a reporter who singled out jehovah's witnesses for discussion from the 30 organisations covered by the report.

the news item then went on to feature an extensive interview ex elder and ex jehovah's witness writer lloyd evans..

Earnest

Biahi, the policy that is referred to is Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Scripturally Based Position on Child Protection and was published in 2018, and is available on the website.

The Illinois elders became aware of possible child sexual abuse in July 2006 and the congregation were warned not to leave their children alone with the perpetrator. It was reported to the police in 2018 when the victim told the elders the abuse had not stopped.

So while we know this hasn't always been the policy it has been since 2018.

slimboyfat : where is this policy stated in print?

The policy which Paul Gillies refers to can be found on the website here. Item 5 in particular states :

When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they immediately consult with the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses to ensure compliance with child abuse reporting laws. (Romans 13:1) Even if the elders have no legal duty to report an accusation to the authorities, the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses will instruct the elders to report the matter if a minor is still in danger of abuse or there is some other valid reason. Elders also ensure that the victim’s parents are informed of an accusation of child abuse. If the alleged abuser is one of the victim’s parents, the elders will inform the other parent.

The "Shepherd the Flock of God" book in chapter 14 on child abuse says two elders should immediately call the Legal Department when they learn of an accusation of child abuse. A call should be made even when both persons involved are minors. The elders must make the call themselves.

The branch office would be able to assess whether children in the congregation were at risk by questioning the elders at length. However, I completely agree with you that does not take account of those outside the congregation. I am not endorsing the policy I am simply telling you what it is.

25

Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says - BBC News

by ballistic in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270.

this item just featured on the bbc lunchtime news today as the headline story and the piece included a reporter who singled out jehovah's witnesses for discussion from the 30 organisations covered by the report.

the news item then went on to feature an extensive interview ex elder and ex jehovah's witness writer lloyd evans..

Earnest

slimboyfat : I don’t think JWs do have a policy of mandatory reporting.

Under current procedures elders are required to report it to the statutory authorities if there is reason to believe a child is "in danger of abuse". This is established when they call the Legal Department and Service Department of the Central Branch Office which they are obliged to do for any allegation of child sexual abuse (See para. 50 of the IICSA report).

So, mandatory reporting when a child is at risk.

Why only then? Paul Gillies explained when he appeared before the Commission that it could be an adult victim, it could be something which happened to them prior to being a Witness, they may not want to go through the trauma of being interviewed by the police, or repeat it in a court setting, and the elders would respect their choice in the matter. In such cases the elders do not have the authority to insist it be reported when a child is not at risk.

AFRIKANMAN : So what did the IICSA actually achieve ?

The report concluded with the following recommendation for religious organisations :

All religious organisations should have a child protection policy and supporting procedures, which should include advice and guidance on responding to disclosures of abuse and the needs of victims and survivors. The policy and procedures should be updated regularly, with professional child protection advice, and all organisations should have regular compulsory training for those in leadership positions and those who work with children and young people

Religious organisations should publish responses to these recommendations, including the timetable involved, within six months of the publication of the report.

Mandatory reporting, vetting and barring, regulation of the voluntary sector in respect of religious organisations and settings, and introducing primary legislation to provide that voluntary settings adhere to basic child protection standards will be addressed in the final report.