Posts by Earnest

25

Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says - BBC News

by ballistic in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270.

this item just featured on the bbc lunchtime news today as the headline story and the piece included a reporter who singled out jehovah's witnesses for discussion from the 30 organisations covered by the report.

the news item then went on to feature an extensive interview ex elder and ex jehovah's witness writer lloyd evans..

Earnest

Simon : One thing I find slightly odd, why isn't the mother guilty of failing to report it?

While the mother may have had a social responsibility to report the abuse, she was not legally obliged to do so. Those legally obliged to report ("mandated reporters") are most professionals in education, health care, law enforcement and social work. These professionals are listed in the Abused and Neglected Child Reporting Act, particularly in section 4 (Persons required to report). The exceptions are privileged communications between an attorney and his or her client, and a member of the clergy (or practitioner of any religious denomination) who hears a confession in his or her professional character or as a spiritual advisor (Section 735 ILCS 5/8-803).

There may be a number of reasons her mother did not report it to the police. The perpetrator was a relative and lived with the family so that may have influenced her decision. He needed an interpreter in court so if they were immigrants that may also have been a factor. In addition, it seems that she also only knew of the initial abuse (which involved touching) and thought it had been dealt with and had ended.

20

Am I Expected to Become One of Jehovah’s Witnesses if I Study the Bible With Them?

by Ron.W. in

(ps.

Earnest

truth_b_known : I suppose it could be possible that there is someone who would study with Witnesses for let's say academic reasons only. If such a person made that known up front they would simply be directed to the Watchtower website. No study would be conducted.

That is not always true. For example, George Chryssides who is a researcher on new religious movements, had a study over an extended period of time even though he made it clear he just wanted to learn about JWs.

He subsequently wrote Historical Dictionary of Jehovah's Witnesses, The A to Z of Jehovah's Witnesses, and Jehovah's Witnesses Continuity and Change.

25

Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says - BBC News

by ballistic in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270.

this item just featured on the bbc lunchtime news today as the headline story and the piece included a reporter who singled out jehovah's witnesses for discussion from the 30 organisations covered by the report.

the news item then went on to feature an extensive interview ex elder and ex jehovah's witness writer lloyd evans..

Earnest

The trial was concluded on Friday, March 18, and the two elders have been found guilty of Class A criminal misdemeanor for violating provisions of the state’s mandatory reporter law, as reported on JWD here. They will be sentenced next Friday, 25th March.

In an earlier post I commented to jhine that we will know whether anyone cared and whether they acted responsibly when the case was held. Whether or not they cared the court has found they did not act responsibly. The basis for this finding is interesting because they claimed the confession in 2006 fell under clergy-penitent privelege. This claim was upheld and the judge did not consider the confession of the perpetrator in his ruling, but only the statements made by the child and another church member (her mother), which were not confessions and so not protected by the confessional process.

The elders also claimed that while the "most serious" acts occurred between 2013 and 2018, they knew nothing beyond the initial allegation they heard in 2006. In the hearing on March 11 it was reported that the initial allegation was that the perpetrator had been “touching [the] private parts” of the victim. The more serious acts, including rape, occurred later and were unknown to the elders.

The lesson seems to be clear for any who rely on clergy-penitent privelege, whether JW, RC etc., is that even if the confession is protected disclosure in certain jurisdictions, if they hear of child sexual abuse from anyone apart from the penitent then that privelege falls away.

14

Watchtower Dishonesty aka Theocratic Warfare

by Vanderhoven7 in

i would like to collect as many instances of watchtower dishonesty and pretense as possible.

here is one from a bulgarian as an example of what i'm looking for.. are jehovah's witnesses disfellowshipped for receiving blood in a hospital?.

helge fauskanger writes: "if witnesses can’t convince the elders that they are utterly “repentant” for this vampiric lapse of theirs, they will be held to have disassociated themselves from the religion — even if they never said a word about wanting to leave it!

Earnest

Vanderhoven7 : Here is one from a Bulgarian ...

Helge Fauskanger is Norwegian and best known as a Tolkien linguist. He has translated the first two chapters of Genesis into Quenya, an elvish language created by Tolkien.

30

Anyone else remember the Awake saying this?

by BottanicPepper in

i may have put this in the wrong thread.

if so, i'm sorry.. my conundrum is this.... i am almost completely certain that an awake back in the 80's/90's mentioned a group of rock bands we shouldn't listen to and i seem to remember them actually naming guns and roses.. i can't find anything now, and i'm wondering if it's the mandela effect, or if it's another case of the cdrom versions of the awakes being doctored again.. does anyone else remember this?

or am i crazy?

Earnest

The two Awake! articles referred to by Atlantis above can be accessed here (1992) and here (1993).

Death Metal—What’s the Message? (1992)

Even the more mainstream heavy-metal groups purvey messages that are hardly less grotesque. Time magazine reported that the two record albums by the heavy-metal group Guns N’ Roses sold over 1.5 million copies in three days. Yet, the albums continue what Time calls the band’s “unrelentingly sexist and uncompromisingly violent lyrics” and “their forays into xenophobia, racism and sadomasochism.” They also feature such themes as oral sex, homicide, and a profusion of profanities. Several chains of stores have refused to sell the records.

Can Music Really Hurt Me? (1993)

Take heavy-metal music—a particularly noxious form of hard rock that is usually played at ear-splitting volume. Heavy-metal bands typically sport names like Poison, Skid Row, Guns N’ Roses, and Slayer. Time magazine said: “The band names alone conjure up images of mayhem, torture and death.” The same can be said of the horrifying artwork that adorns the album covers and that often depicts satanic symbols.

16

Awakes says playing Chess is evil not for Witnesses!

by Witness 007 in

awake 73 3/23 p.12 "the spirit of compatition between players can lead to unpleasant circumstances...in some homes tensions linger longer then checkmate.

chess is a game of war a play substitute for the art of war...danger of stirring up compatiton and hostility to one another something the bible warns christians to avoid.

what effect does playing chess have on you is it wholesome?

Earnest

While the article did not suggest that chess was evil (as the OP claims), I was a keen chess player at the time and can remember I gave up competitive chess (i.e. club chess) as a result of the article.

But BluesBrother is correct that they subsequently endorsed chess, saying it is a "board game that has long provided many persons much pleasure" here. Then there was the life story of Josephine Elias, who "carried a chessboard when visiting interested people at their homes so that others would think I was merely playing chess" when preaching in Indonesia.

If one reads the whole article it is quite balanced and I would only fault it in saying that the competitive spirit helps explain why there are no topflight women chess players. Of course, that was before the Polgar sisters.

16

Awakes says playing Chess is evil not for Witnesses!

by Witness 007 in

awake 73 3/23 p.12 "the spirit of compatition between players can lead to unpleasant circumstances...in some homes tensions linger longer then checkmate.

chess is a game of war a play substitute for the art of war...danger of stirring up compatiton and hostility to one another something the bible warns christians to avoid.

what effect does playing chess have on you is it wholesome?

Earnest

Bobby Fischer, Boris Spassky, Garry Kasparov ... all world chess champions. Garry Kasparov is of interest in view of recent events in that he eventually quit chess and took up politics in 2005. He left Russia in 2013 and wrote the book Winter is Coming in 2015. Still a master of strategy.

16

Awakes says playing Chess is evil not for Witnesses!

by Witness 007 in

awake 73 3/23 p.12 "the spirit of compatition between players can lead to unpleasant circumstances...in some homes tensions linger longer then checkmate.

chess is a game of war a play substitute for the art of war...danger of stirring up compatiton and hostility to one another something the bible warns christians to avoid.

what effect does playing chess have on you is it wholesome?

Earnest

This was previously discussed here.

7

Has this been posted? Crystal Lake, IL ...elders not reporting case

by carla in

i searched but could not find it, i apologize if it has already been covered.

https://patch.com/illinois/crystallake/trial-starts-church-elders-accused-not-reporting-sex-abuse.

and here too- https://www.shawlocal.com/northwest-herald/news/crime-and-courts/2022/03/03/trial-for-jehovahs-witnesses-elders-underway-without-decision-from-judge-on-what-hell-consider-in-evidence/.

Earnest

BluesBrother : the WT instructions are clear , and were in 2006, that in a place that requires mandatory reporting- the elders report.

The elder sought legal advice from Bethel at the time and was told (by legal counsel) he had no legal obligations under the Illinois law to disclose any information. The Illinois law (735 ILCS 5/8-803) includes clergy penitent privelege which relieves any reporting requirement.

Sec. 8-803 states that

A clergyman or practitioner of any religious denomination accredited by the religious body to which he or she belongs, shall not be compelled to disclose in any court, or to any administrative body or agency, or to any public officer, a confession or admission made to him or her in his or her professional character or as a spiritual advisor in the course of the discipline enjoined by the rules or practices of such religious body or of the religion which he or she professes, nor be compelled to divulge any information which has been obtained by him or her in such professional character or as such spiritual advisor.

25

Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says - BBC News

by ballistic in

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270.

this item just featured on the bbc lunchtime news today as the headline story and the piece included a reporter who singled out jehovah's witnesses for discussion from the 30 organisations covered by the report.

the news item then went on to feature an extensive interview ex elder and ex jehovah's witness writer lloyd evans..

Earnest

This case started on 2nd March 2022. There is a report on the trial here.

No witnesses were called. Only stipulations were handed to the judge, which he will read before ultimately making his ruling whether statements made by congregants to the elders may be admitted as evidence. Their defense attorneys have argued that the statements made by the congregant fall under the clergy-penitent privilege.

The bench trial will reconvene March 11.