Posts by Earnest

136

Colossian 1:16 - "all OTHER things"

by aqwsed12345 in

due to their apparent theological bias, the watchtower shamelessly inserts the word "other" in order to "make room" for their own idea that jesus is also a created being.

it is clear that jehovah's witnesses try to avoid having to admit that christ created everything because "the one who constructed all things is god" (hebrews 3:4).

instead, the society teaches that "christ was the only one created by god," and that then he "created everything else with jehovah.

Earnest

aqwsed12345 : When the pope "creates" a cardinal, doesn't mean he brings him to existence ex nihilo, but appoints him to a position.

Why not compare Proverbs 8:22 with Genesis 14:19, 22 which also uses 'qanah' in relation to God.

Genesis 14:19, 22 : "Then he blessed him and said: "Blessed be Abram of the Most High God, Producer of heaven and earth...At this Aʹbram said to the king of Sodʹom: “I do lift up my hand [in an oath] to Jehovah the Most High God, Producer of heaven and earth"

Do you think this means an appointment to a position or bringing into existence from nothing?

Whether or not Proverbs 8 refers to Christ is a matter of interpretation, but it is difficult to imagine Paul did not have it in mind when he referred to Christ as the "wisdom of God".

136

Colossian 1:16 - "all OTHER things"

by aqwsed12345 in

due to their apparent theological bias, the watchtower shamelessly inserts the word "other" in order to "make room" for their own idea that jesus is also a created being.

it is clear that jehovah's witnesses try to avoid having to admit that christ created everything because "the one who constructed all things is god" (hebrews 3:4).

instead, the society teaches that "christ was the only one created by god," and that then he "created everything else with jehovah.

Earnest

aqwsed : So 'qanah' in the whole book of Proverbs means something, but right in 8:22 it means something else,

That is exactly what lexicographers Brown-Driver-Briggs uphold. The point is that none of the other scriptures in Proverbs refer to 'qanah' in relation to God. When it is used in relation to God it has the sense of originating or creating, as Genesis 14:19,22; Deuteronomy 32:6; and Psalm 139:13 substantiate.

136

Colossian 1:16 - "all OTHER things"

by aqwsed12345 in

due to their apparent theological bias, the watchtower shamelessly inserts the word "other" in order to "make room" for their own idea that jesus is also a created being.

it is clear that jehovah's witnesses try to avoid having to admit that christ created everything because "the one who constructed all things is god" (hebrews 3:4).

instead, the society teaches that "christ was the only one created by god," and that then he "created everything else with jehovah.

Earnest

aqwsed : You should compare how is the verb 'qanah' translated in the Book of Proverbs 1:5, 4:5, 4:7, 15:32, 16:16, 18:15, 19:8.

In Brown-Driver-Briggs it gives four different senses in which 'qanah' is used:

(a) of God as originating, creating. Genesis 14:19,22; Deuteronomy 32:6; Psalm 139:13; Proverbs 8:22.

(b) of God as victoriously redeeming his people. Exodus 15:16; Isaiah 11:11; Psalm 74:2; Psalm 78:54.

(c) of Eve, acquiring (i.e. with the help of). Genesis 4:1.

(d) of acquiring wisdom, knowledge. Proverbs 1:5, Proverbs 4:5 (twice in verse), Proverbs 4:7 (twice in verse), Proverbs 15:32, Proverbs 16:16 (twice in verse), Proverbs 17:16; Proverbs 18:15, Proverbs 19:8; Proverbs 23:23.

Note that all the examples you provide is where 'qanah' has the sense of acquiring wisdom or knowledge.

The five instances where Brown-Driver-Briggs give 'qanah' the sense of originating, creating are

Genesis 14:19, 22 : "Then he blessed him and said: "Blessed be Abram of the Most High God, Producer of heaven and earth...At this Aʹbram said to the king of Sodʹom: “I do lift up my hand [in an oath] to Jehovah the Most High God, Producer of heaven and earth"
Deuteronomy 32:6 : "Is it to Jehovah that YOU keep doing this way, O people stupid and not wise? Is he not your Father who has produced you, He who made you and proceeded to give you stability?"
Psalm 139:13 : "For you yourself produced my kidneys; You kept me screened off in the belly of my mother."
Proverbs 8:22 "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago."

136

Colossian 1:16 - "all OTHER things"

by aqwsed12345 in

due to their apparent theological bias, the watchtower shamelessly inserts the word "other" in order to "make room" for their own idea that jesus is also a created being.

it is clear that jehovah's witnesses try to avoid having to admit that christ created everything because "the one who constructed all things is god" (hebrews 3:4).

instead, the society teaches that "christ was the only one created by god," and that then he "created everything else with jehovah.

Earnest

aqwsed : There does not seem indeed any ground for the thought of creation either in the meaning of the root, or in the general usage of the word.

You may cite Athanasius as much as you like, but you fail to address the Jewish and other translations provided by slimboyfat as well as the lexicons (such as Brown-Driver-Briggs and Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament) which render "qanah" as 'create' in Proverbs 8:22.

136

Colossian 1:16 - "all OTHER things"

by aqwsed12345 in

due to their apparent theological bias, the watchtower shamelessly inserts the word "other" in order to "make room" for their own idea that jesus is also a created being.

it is clear that jehovah's witnesses try to avoid having to admit that christ created everything because "the one who constructed all things is god" (hebrews 3:4).

instead, the society teaches that "christ was the only one created by god," and that then he "created everything else with jehovah.

Earnest

aqwsed12345 : I also quote from here:

What you do not quote is the response to that post which addresses it in detail, including the thought that Psalm 139:13 is possibly the most difficult passage of all standing in the way of one who refuses to acknowledge a qanâ = ‘create’ in the Hebrew Bible, and that the Syriac (and Targum) has “created me,” which is a translation generally accepted to be from the Hebrew.

12

Another new missing part of the Bible found

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22011278/new-bible-chapter-hidden-verses-discovered-erased-scribe/.

i wonder what the remaining members of the gb will make of this?.

i excited to read all of this once it’s released and compare with the rest of mathew.

Earnest

Disillusioned JW : But despite saying the discovery is of a translation older than the Sinaiticus, the article says the discovered text "... was first written in the 3rd century CE and copied in the 6th century CE"

The article in LiveScience throws a bit more light on the subject. It says :

The most recent text on the parchment is written in Georgian, and there is an earlier text underneath it written in Greek. But when Grigory Kesselpens in new tab), a scholar who studies Syriac with the Austrian Academy of Sciences, examined UV images provided by the Vatican library, he found yet another layer hidden beneath the Greek text.
The Old Syriac text contains part of Matthew 12:1. Kessel speculated that someone copied the verse onto the parchment during the sixth century. Based on the language, Kessel estimates that the original may have been produced in the third century.

The article Kessel wrote [A New (Double Palimpsest) Witness to the Old Syriac Gospels (Vat. iber. 4, ff. 1 & 5)] can be found in New Testament Studies where he says that there can be no doubt that it was produced no later than the sixth century. Despite a limited number of dated manuscripts from this period, comparison with dated Syriac manuscripts allows us to narrow down a possible time frame to the first half of the sixth century.

12

Another new missing part of the Bible found

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22011278/new-bible-chapter-hidden-verses-discovered-erased-scribe/.

i wonder what the remaining members of the gb will make of this?.

i excited to read all of this once it’s released and compare with the rest of mathew.

Earnest

This is not a missing part of the Bible, but a translation in Old Syriac. What is new about it is that prior to identifying the underlying text in this parchment in 2016 there were only two other manuscripts known to contain parts of the Gospels in Old Syriac.

In a less dramatic fashion, New Testament Studies, Volume 69, Issue 2, April 2023, pp.210-221 reported:

Vat. iber. 4, a membrum disjectum [scattered fragment] of the manuscript Sin. geo. 49, contains on two of its folios the Syriac Gospel text as the lowest layer (scriptio ima) within a double palimpsest. Comparison with known Syriac versions of the extant text – Matt 11.30–12.26 – shows that the text represents the Old Syriac version, and is particularly akin to the Curetonianus (Syc). On palaeographic grounds, the original Gospel manuscript can be dated to the first half of the sixth century. The fragment is so far the only known vestige of the fourth manuscript witness to the Old Syriac version.

57

Court case Jehovah's Witnesses Norway kicked off

by AndersonsInfo in

https://cne.news/article/2827-court-case-jehovah-s-witnesses-norway-kicked-off.

norwegian jehovah's witnesses are in court this wednesday and thursday.

they are fighting the government's decision to remove their registration as a religious community.. .

Earnest

DesirousofChange : It was common practice on occasion ie a JW compromising on neutrality to simply verbally "spread the word" that so-and-so should be treated as DF'd. They did not want to DF someone for joining the military ...

Shepherd the Flock of God, October 2022, Chapter 18, para. 3 (4), 5 says

Actions that may indicate disassociation include ... taking a course that violates Christian neutrality. (Isa. 2:4; John 15:17-19; "How to Remain in God's Love" pp. 60-63, 244). If he joins a nonneutral organization, he has disassociated himself. If his employment makes him a clear accomplice in nonneutral activities, he should generally be allowed six months to make an adjustment. If he does not, he has disassociated himself.—See "How to Remain in God's Love" pp. 204-206.
The coordinator of the body of elders should approve the announcement before an elder reads it to the congregation [at the next midweek meeting]. It should read as follows: “[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses".

51

Jehovah's Witnesses lose registration as a religious community in Norway

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

https://www.statsforvalteren.no/nb/oslo-og-viken/folk-og-samfunn/tros--og-livssynssamfunn/jehovas-vitner-taper-registrering-som-trossamfunn/.

published december 22, 2022. the state manager in oslo and viken has decided to withdraw jehovah's witnesses registration as a religious community under the religious society act.. .

we sent a notice to jehovah's witnesses about possible loss of registration on october 25 this year.

Earnest

enoughisenough : I thought they did deregister, but this is an appeal.

They were deregistered and allowed to appeal. They asked the County Governor to consider deferred implementation "before the appeal deadline has expired or the appeal has been decided" as allowed in Section 42 of the Public Administration Act.

The County Governor decided there was no basis for granting deferred implementation.

The "temporary injunction" means that the Oslo District Court has overruled the County Governor and allowed the deregistration to be deferred until the appeal case is heard.

51

Jehovah's Witnesses lose registration as a religious community in Norway

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

https://www.statsforvalteren.no/nb/oslo-og-viken/folk-og-samfunn/tros--og-livssynssamfunn/jehovas-vitner-taper-registrering-som-trossamfunn/.

published december 22, 2022. the state manager in oslo and viken has decided to withdraw jehovah's witnesses registration as a religious community under the religious society act.. .

we sent a notice to jehovah's witnesses about possible loss of registration on october 25 this year.

Earnest

Jehovah's Witnesses intend to take legal action on the validity of decisions denying state subsidies of 27.01.2022. In letter dated 02.12.2022, and in letter dated 15.02.2022, Jehovah's Witnesses request deferred implementation until the case has been processed by the public administration or there is a final verdict.

JW News reports that "on December 30, 2022, the Oslo District Court granted a temporary injunction to stop the government from taking away our registration as a religious community."

Earnest

Posts by Earnest

aqwsed12345 : I also quote from here: