Posts by Earnest

17

What I Remember From The Past...

by titch in

folks: regarding all the recent changes about dis-fellowshipping and time for re-instatement.

(and, even speaking to persons who are dis-fellowshpped.

) back in 1972, a new book was released at the summer district convention, that replaced the yellow-colored "lamp": book.

Earnest

titch : And, in that book it was stated that after a person was dis-fellowshipped, he or she could ask the BOE to be re-instated after a 6-month period.... So, a 6-month period was established, for applying for re-instatement.

In the book "Your Word is a Lamp to my Foot", 1967, it says (p.181)

No plea for reinstatement will be considered for at least a year after disfellowshipping, and in some cases even more.

In Organization for Kingdom Preaching and Disciple Making, 1972, it says (p.176)

So, it may be several months, a year or even years before a disfellowshipped person gives convincing evidence of repentance.

In Organized to Do Jehovah's Will, 2019, it says (p.153)

The elders are careful to allow sufficient time - many months, a year, or even longer, depending on the circumstances - for the person to prove that his repentance is genuine.

16

Elder abuser in Sunshine Coast down under (?)

by carla in

not sure if this has been posted or not, apologies if it has.

i did a quick search and did not see it.

https://archive.md/5zcdi -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure accused of horrific sex crimes has been remanded in jail for fresh offences which allegedly occurred the same day he attended court.. and https://archive.md/r2o6x -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure who allegedly used his position in the church to sexually assault young men has been arrested by police.

Earnest

A commital hearing was held today and the Courier Mail reported :

A businessman and former Jehovah’s Witness figure on the Sunshine Coast will stand trial after he allegedly groomed a man over 11 years and raped him while he chanted affirmations.

The man was charged with 54 offences including 21 counts of rape, 17 of sexual assault, torture and incest, the last of which was alleged to have been against his great-nephew.

Defence barrister Saul Holt contested the charges of incest and torture, arguing the legal definition of incest did not include great-nephews. He also told the court the psychological trauma did not categorise under “severe pain and suffering” of the torture charge and asked it be dismissed.

Magistrate Chris Callaghan discharged the man of incest and torture, leaving 52 charges remaining.

Mr Holt also told the court the sexual encounters relating to two of the alleged victims were consensual.

Mr Callaghan directed the matter of consent was for a jury to hear and committed the matter to the Maroochydore District Court for trial. He adjourned the matter until September 25.

78

God, one person, or three?

by slimboyfat in

the trinity doctrine says god is three persons in one being.. yet the bible says god is one.. gal 3.20 a mediator, however, implies more than one party; but god is one.

niv.

gal 3.20 now a mediator is not for just one person, but god is one.

Earnest

aqwsed12345 : But anyway, as John 20:28 shows, He was Lord and God even before that, considering His divine nature.

John 20:27 "Next he said to Thomas: “Put your finger here, and see my hands, and take your hand and stick it into my side, and stop doubting but believe.”"

aqwsed12345 : Although he received the title "The Lord" as a human also, but by this his human nature did not become God (because there can be no change in God), so it means sharing in the divine glory. “The humanity of Christ is a creature, it is not God” (Catholic Encyclopedia, 922).

78

God, one person, or three?

by slimboyfat in

the trinity doctrine says god is three persons in one being.. yet the bible says god is one.. gal 3.20 a mediator, however, implies more than one party; but god is one.

niv.

gal 3.20 now a mediator is not for just one person, but god is one.

Earnest

@aqwsed12345

Your lengthy discussion arguing that 'God' and 'Lord' are interchangeable belies the fact that Jesus was made Lord, and therefore there was a time when he was not Lord, just as there was a time when he was not Christ. As Acts 2:34-36 says :

For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”

The importance of this new role as Lord is emphasized at Romans 10:9 :

For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

which is why the identification of God as Father and Jesus as Lord (in 1 Corinthians 8:6) is necessarily so clear.

78

God, one person, or three?

by slimboyfat in

the trinity doctrine says god is three persons in one being.. yet the bible says god is one.. gal 3.20 a mediator, however, implies more than one party; but god is one.

niv.

gal 3.20 now a mediator is not for just one person, but god is one.

Earnest

1 Corinthians 8:6 says there is to us one God (the Father) and one Lord (Jesus Christ). How clearer can you be?

16

Elder abuser in Sunshine Coast down under (?)

by carla in

not sure if this has been posted or not, apologies if it has.

i did a quick search and did not see it.

https://archive.md/5zcdi -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure accused of horrific sex crimes has been remanded in jail for fresh offences which allegedly occurred the same day he attended court.. and https://archive.md/r2o6x -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure who allegedly used his position in the church to sexually assault young men has been arrested by police.

Earnest

Desirousof Change : Is there any clarification on whether he was in an appointed position of any kind when the abuse happened?

Paragraph 2 in my post above:

A Jehovah’s Witness spokesman told the Sunshine Coast Daily that "the local man in question has no appointed position within the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses and was not in an appointed position throughout the time of the alleged events”.

16

Elder abuser in Sunshine Coast down under (?)

by carla in

not sure if this has been posted or not, apologies if it has.

i did a quick search and did not see it.

https://archive.md/5zcdi -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure accused of horrific sex crimes has been remanded in jail for fresh offences which allegedly occurred the same day he attended court.. and https://archive.md/r2o6x -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure who allegedly used his position in the church to sexually assault young men has been arrested by police.

Earnest

DesirousOfChange : Evidently the Aussie court system moves as slow as it does here in the US.

He was charged in August 2022 on 21 counts of rape, 14 of procuring sexual acts by false pretences, torture and common assault. These allegedly involved three young men and his grand-nephew over a 10-year period although 45 of the 54 charges involved his grand-nephew only. Application for bail was abandoned on August 31 and the case adjourned to October 28 2022.

A Jehovah’s Witness spokesman told the Sunshine Coast Daily that "the local man in question has no appointed position within the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses and was not in an appointed position throughout the time of the alleged events”.

On October 28, 2022 police were granted more time to prepare the case. The matter was adjourned until December 2, 2022. In a hearing on January 20, 2023 it was said that three witness statements were outstanding including one witness who had moved overseas. This was obtained on February 16.

There was a hearing on February 17, 2023 to say that the brief of evidence was complete including video footage. The matter was adjourned for a directions hearing on April 21 2023.

On August 29 2023 he applied for bail but this was adjourned to August 31.

The man was taken into custody again in September 2023 after he was charged with with one count of attempting to pervert justice, two of distributing intimate images of another person without consent, one of threatening to distribute an intimate image, one of sexual assault and one of possessing an S4 medicine.

He most recently appeared in court on December 11, 2023 and there was another hearing on December 18. There will be a commital hearing on March 20, 2024 where seven witnesses will be cross-examined.

37

They Came To The Door!

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

Earnest

Out of interest, the reason it was thought the "calling to a heavenly hope" ended in 1931 is discussed in the November 15, 1933 Watchtower, in the article Laborer's Wages (pp.339-345) about the parable of the penny/denarius (Matthew 20), and particularly the discussion on Pay Day (p.342). There it says (para.17) :

The facts in fulfilment of the prophetic parable show that “early in the morning” corresponds to the year A.D. 1919, which was the beginning of the Elisha work after the coming of the King to the temple. Counting the hour for a year, as shown by the facts foregoing, and which is supported by the Scriptures, the “even” or close of the twelfth hour (Matt. 20: 8), the period of time mentioned in the parable, came to a close with the year A.D. 1931.

However, the January 15, 1967 Watchtower had an article on The Modern Fulfillment of the Penny (pp.50-56) which had a different understanding of the parable, and so after that there was not any scriptural basis for saying when the heavenly calling ended. It was assumed it ended in 1935 because that was when the "great crowd" was identified, but there was nothing in scripture to point to that year.

37

They Came To The Door!

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

Earnest

A Question from Readers in the May 1, 2007 Watchtower addresses the question "When does the calling of Christians to a heavenly hope cease?"

It explains that between 1933 and 1966 it was understood that the "calling to a heavenly hope" ended in 1931 with a few exceptions to replace any who had become unfaithful. After 1966 it was believed this "call" ended in 1935. However, the article then says "it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends.".

Since then the number who believe they have been spirit-anointed has gradually risen as you note.

37

They Came To The Door!

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

Earnest

Hi NotFormer, it seems I may have confused things in my post on another thread.

Revelation 14:1 says that the 144,000 are standing with the Lamb on Mount Zion. This is understood to be in heaven. The spirit-anointed Christians on earth (referred to as "the anointed") are those who have a heavenly hope that when they die and are resurrected they will become part of the 144,000 in heaven.

Between 1927 and 2012 the FDS was believed to consist of the entire body of the anointed on earth. Now it is believed it only consists of the GB collectively.

So the FDS is not identical with the 144,000. The FDS is on earth and the 144,000 are in heaven.

You are right that it is only the anointed who partake of the Lord's Evening Meal. This is because they are part of the covenant for a kingdom (Luke 22:29) to rule as kings with Christ (Revelation 5:10)

The change in identity of the FDS does not affect whether or not someone is spirit-anointed or their heavenly hope. It does not affect whether they will rule as kings with Christ. In fact, for the overwhelming majority it doesn't affect them at all.

As a group the anointed are also referred to as "the remnant", the remaining ones on earth. Contrary to what Sea Breeze wrote, "the remnant" consists of all the anointed, not just the GB.

To be a member of the Governing Body you must be (or claim to be) spirit-anointed. So they will continue to partake along with all the other anointed at the Lords Evening Meal.

As mentioned in the post I referred to, when the group work together as the Governing Body, they act as 'the faithful and discreet slave'. Whether "working together as the Governing Body" means it only occurs in a properly convened meeting is not stated. But as I hope it is now clear, partaking has nothing to do with whether or not someone is part of the FDS.