Earnest

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Posts by Earnest

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  40

  How does the Govering Body get enlightenment?

  by no-zombie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the earliest of times of the catholic church's ecumenical councils were used to make major changes to its doctrinal direction.

  decisions were made by bishops, they were ratified by the pope ... and it was done.

  and the laity had to accepted them or not.. and while splinter catholic religions accepted most of these councils, non-trinitarian faiths which developed latter (of which jehovah's witnesses are apart) did not.

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  Earnest

  Listener : ...they believe the 144,000 anointed who have died began to be resurrected to heaven in 1914.

  On the contrary, the Watchtower which you quoted claimed that " that the first resurrection began sometime between 1914 and 1935." It then went on to say

  Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ’s presence began.

  So all that can be said with certainty is that the terminus post quem of the first resurrection is 1914 and the terminus ante quem is 1935. Possibly, "it could be reasoned", "it is not out of harmony with other scriptures", it began in the spring of 1918 BUT "that cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible".
  
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  20

  Pioneer Hours

  by Etude in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know how many hours were required to be a pioneer back in or around 1970?.

  etude..

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  Earnest

  Dagney : I was told the hours for full time in the 30's-40's was 150, although not called pioneers back then I think.

  On doing a bit more research I found the 1945 publication Organization Instructions for the Kingdom Publisher confirms what you said, namely (page 12, paragraph 34) :
  

  Any publisher may make application to become a pioneer if that publisher can arrange his affairs so as to spend a minimum of I50 hours in the field service each month.

  Special Pioneers had a requirement of 175 hours at that time (page 13, paragraph 40).

  By 1955 the requirement for pioneers was 100 hours a month or 1200 hours a year (Preaching Together in Unity, page 19, paragraph 58). So I think my earlier recall of 120 hours a month for a pioneer was mistaken.
  
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  31

  WT says 'Church Fathers were leading teachers'

  by youdontknowhim in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was it jehovahs witnesses who acknowledge the church father as leading teachers?

  this is a very interesting statement by justin.

  do you accept origen as an authority when he said jesus is our god?

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  Earnest

  Phizzy : It is of note to me that they left the quote from a Scholar that said Priestley's group had gone back to "the original manuscripts" without comment.

  I think the account was quite balanced. While Dr Malcolm Dick (Senior Lecturer in Local History, University of Birmingham) did say (@ 01:44) "he [Priestley] could compare the King James' version of the Bible with original texts in original languages", that was balanced a few seconds later by the late Dr James Aitken (Professor of Hebrew and Early Jewish Studies, University of Cambridge) who elaborated (@ 01:53) that "there were multiple manuscripts, both of the Hebrew text and of the Greek text, which were now available and showed that sometimes the text that the Authorised Version was based on was not the only reading available".

  Priestley's Group certainly had access to Codex Alexandrinus (fifth century), as well as Codex Bezae (fifth/sixth century) and Codex Claromontanus (sixth century). How do we know? Because William Whiston, who was also a unitarian based in Cambridge, published his Primitive New Testament in 1745 based on these three manuscripts. Codex Beza for Gospels and Acts; Codex Alexandrinus for the letters of James, Peter, John, Jude and Revelation; Codex Claromontanus for the epistles of Paul and Hebrews.
  

  If you are interested in Robert Garnham's writings, the only publicly available one I could find was Examination of Mr Harrison's Sermon in a Letter to an Athanasian Christian, 1789, but that isn't about his translation. Maybe more interesting would be the letters between Joseph Priestley and Theophilus Lindsey which can be found here (1769 - 1789) and here (1790 - 1794).
  
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  20

  Pioneer Hours

  by Etude in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know how many hours were required to be a pioneer back in or around 1970?.

  etude..

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  Earnest

  Regular pioneering was never 150 hours. There was a time when it was 120 hours, then 100 hours, then 90, then 70.
  
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  31

  WT says 'Church Fathers were leading teachers'

  by youdontknowhim in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was it jehovahs witnesses who acknowledge the church father as leading teachers?

  this is a very interesting statement by justin.

  do you accept origen as an authority when he said jesus is our god?

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  Earnest

  Talking of Joseph Priestley, I can strongly recommend this video on A Lost Bible Translation Rediscovered.
  
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  31

  WT says 'Church Fathers were leading teachers'

  by youdontknowhim in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was it jehovahs witnesses who acknowledge the church father as leading teachers?

  this is a very interesting statement by justin.

  do you accept origen as an authority when he said jesus is our god?

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  Earnest

  There is an article The Church fathers - Advocates of Bible Truth? in the Watchtower of April 15, 2001 which concludes that "the Church Fathers allowed 'misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons' to take root in the Christian congregation.​". That is hardly an endorsement.

  I would also note that there was some confusion as to who or what Christ was until teachings were defined in various councils. Naturally those whose writings supported the (now) orthodox teaching were copied and promulgated as authority. Those whose writings did not support the new orthodoxy were simply not preserved. So in consequence we have very little record of the many who did not support in some way the teachings which later became orthodox. Thus the only authority we should rely on is scripture itself.
  
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  263

  Where is Tony?

  by Athanasius in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on february 22, 2023, anthony morris iii was officially removed from the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

  a few months later it was revealed that the watchtower bought him a house in lumberton, north carolina.. however, and correct me if i am wrong, since leaving the gb nobody has reported seeing tony attending jw meetings or participating in field service.

  in fact nobody has reported seeing him anywhere, not even at a local liquor store.

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  Earnest

  Raymond Franz wrote (in Crisis of Conscience, 4th edition, p.45) that Thomas Sullivan "in his eighties, nearly blind and in poor health" would repeatedly sleep during the governing body sessions. He remained a member of the governing body until he died at the age of 86.
  
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  Looking for old friends Widnes kingdom hall

  by KennethMckie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my father was a member of the widnes kingdom hall and we are trying to find his old friends who use to go to the kingdom hall in widnes.

  his friends would have known him as ken mckie.

  my father is now in a nursing home due to his health issues kenneth mckie had many friends in the widnes kingdom hall and lost there contact .

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  Earnest

  Try the Kingdom Hall contact @ 07801 844789
  
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  13

  JW's in the Hot Seat in Czech Republic

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  looks like things are heating up in the czech republic over the horrifying practice of shunning children that ask the "wrong" questions.

  kids now days have access to all of the watchtower's lies, manipulations, unnecessary deaths, flip flops, rejection of jesus as mediator etc, etc.

  i predict this issue of shunning children will continue to threaten free government money that the wt receives.

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  Earnest

  This video seems to date back to March 4. There was an article reporting on it in the Slovak online magazine tvnovin which is translated as follows :
  

  Unique shots. At the meeting of Jehovah's Witnesses, they were also asked to talk about what they had denied for years.

  They fear losing their family, but say they can no longer remain silent. We have been approached by several members of Jehovah's Witnesses who decided to leave the community years later. But they say it's not easy.

  If they leave, they risk losing ties to their loved ones. The impending social isolation is likened by members to death.

  The community of Jehovah's Witnesses denies the ban on contact with departed persons. However, the videos we have obtained say otherwise.

  It's not easy

  Three months ago, we were approached by a man who grew up in a family of Jehovah's Witnesses. He talked about banning transfusions, waiting for the end of the world, but especially about social isolation.

  "It is very often emphasized and reminded that the outside world is under the influence of the devil. People who are not in that organization and do not have spiritual guidance can have a bad spiritual and moral influence," he told us.

  The young man claimed that he would like to leave the community, but it is not easy.

  "Because it would put my parents under a lot of psychological pressure. They have such a doctrine that excommunicated members are sort of isolated from that community. No one in that community is allowed to contact, talk, or basically greet excluded witnesses.

  After the last report was broadcast, several former and current members contacted not only us, but also the Ministry of Interior of the Slovak Republic.

  In the Reflex report, you will also hear a foreword in the Czech Republic, where leading representatives of Jehovah's Witnesses also talk about how to treat departed members.

  It is there that the man emphasizes that the rules are always the same, even if it is the immediate family.
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  13

  JW's in the Hot Seat in Czech Republic

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  looks like things are heating up in the czech republic over the horrifying practice of shunning children that ask the "wrong" questions.

  kids now days have access to all of the watchtower's lies, manipulations, unnecessary deaths, flip flops, rejection of jesus as mediator etc, etc.

  i predict this issue of shunning children will continue to threaten free government money that the wt receives.

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  Earnest

  In the video @04:16 it is obvious that this relates to the Slovak Republic (https://www.culture.gov.sk/en/), not the Czech Republic. However, the online magazine which reported it is Czech (https://www.reflex.cz/).