Posts by Earnest

64

William Miller

by lepavoux in

" this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

!.

Earnest

Annie : Barbour tells us that he got his chronology from a table drawn up by Christopher Bowen to fit the work of E. B. Elliott. Both of these men were Anglican Clergy, never Adventists.

You are, of course, correct in what you have said above but Barbour actually derived the 1873 date before reading Elliott's Horae Apocalypticae. He recounts in Evidences for the Coming of the Lord in 1873; or the Midnight Cry, 2nd ed. (Rochester, 1871), pp.32,33:

The midnight cry, or coming of the Lord in 1873, began on the sea...The vessel left Australia with an advent brother on board [i.e. Barbour], who had lost his religion, and been for many years in total darkness. To wile away the monotony of a long sea voyage, the English chaplain proposed a systematic reading of the prophecies, to which the brother readily assented; for, having been a Millerite in former years, he knew right well there were arguments it would puzzle the chaplain to answer, even though the time had passed.
When they came to the 12th of Daniel, the brother saw what he had never seen before, though he had read it a hundred times. "From the time the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." In our explanation of this in 1843, why did we begin the thousand years thirty years before the abomination was set up? Here is our mistake; and it is one of thirty years. The days end in '73, not '43. All this came in a moment. From that hour, says the brother, the whole truth of our position was made clear.
On arriving in London, he went to the library of the British Museum, and among many other extensive works on the prophecies, found Elliott's Horae Apocalypticae, which at that time, 1860, was a standard work; advocating 1866 as the time for the coming of the Lord. There the chronology was found as now given in these pages, with some slight additional proof.

So, I think it would be correct to say, as far as Barbour was concerned, that he initially derived 1873 as the year of Christ's coming from the prophetic periods that Miller had used in his calculations, and this was subsequently confirmed by Elliott's chronology which ended 6,000 years in 1873.

Many others pointed to 1873 but Barbour reached the date simply by reading Daniel together with his background knowledge as a Millerite of the prophetic periods. When nothing happened in 1873, Barbour also independently proposed 1874 as the target year in an article entitled The 1873 Time in the Advent Christian Times of November 11, 1873.

It should also be noted that although Elliott suggested 1914 as a possible date for the end of the Gentile Times, he reckoned the 2,520 years from Nebuchadnezzar's accession year, which he dated to 606 B.C.E. However, Barbour reckoned the 2,520 years from the desolation of Jerusalem in Nebuchadnezzar's 18th regnal year, which he dated to 606 B.C.E. and so calculated 1914 by a different chronology. As far as I know it was only Barbour who had dated Nebuchadnezzar's 18th regnal year as 606 B.C.E. at that time.

64

William Miller

by lepavoux in

" this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

!.

Earnest

Further to what Annie has said about second-probation, Russell also probably developed his ideas about this from William Spencer's book "The Curse Lifted: A Bible View of the Promised Restitution". William Spencer was a printer for George Storrs.

Also, Henry Dunn got many of his ideas regarding second-probation from Dunbar Isidore Heath's 1852 book "Future Human Kingom of Christ"..

64

William Miller

by lepavoux in

" this is the man who made it all happen" type this in.. this is how the watchtower organization began!

!.

Earnest

Thanks, Annie. I have read your mum's introductory essay to Separate Identity vol. 2, and there she writes (p.xxxix) : "So it's not a reliable chronology he rejected, but Adventist speculation that included world-burning and seemed unreliable....So Russell accepted a chronology [from Barbour]...when expressed in non-Second Adventist, Age-to-Come terms."

Barbour did have a Millerite background and had invested his faith and life in the movement. When Barbour developed his chronology he merely shifted the 1843/4 Millerite calculations thirty years forward to 1873/4. It was only after the 1874 failure that Barbour adopted Age-to-Come theology. So, while Russell's doctrines were not inherited from the Adventists, his chronology dating 1874 as the beginning of Christ's presence came directly from Barbour. I think it is in this sense that Russell is associated with the Second Adventists.

3

CSA Criminal Jailed after 30 years of his crime

by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

jw
friends

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/north-staffordshire-sex-beast-finally-4401250.

Earnest

I thought Zing were reported as dead from coronavirus.

32

IICSA hearings resume next week

by Corney in

the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse (iicsa) will hold additional virtual public hearings in the child protection in religious organisations and settings investigation next week.. the timetable was released today: https://www.iicsa.org.uk/key-documents/20825/view/virtual-cpiros-timetable-week-3-10-august-2020.pdf .

five witnesses will testify on the jw issue next monday and tuesday, 10 and 11 august:.

- pr-a5, a victim abused by ministerial servant peter stewart;.

Earnest

Now that most congregations in Britain are merged (or will be merged) with the Kingdom Hall Trust, each congregation becoming a branch of that charity, they are no longer charities in themselves. The elders in the congregation are no longer charity trustees of the congregation and so would not be answerable to the Charity Commission. The Kingdom Hall Trust would still come under the auspices of the Charity Commission but they can hardly be expected to know what is going on in each congregation until judicial action is taken. It seems to me that the Circuit Overseer and the elders in each congregation are responsible for appointments of elders and ministerial servants and so the body corporate cannot be held liable for compensation.

7

The Guardian: Former Jehovah's Witness elders call for mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/10/former-jehovahs-witness-elders-call-for-mandatory-reporting-of-child-sexual-abuse?fbclid=iwar13k3rzferkzvjj5lbxegzhjr1dkfw34gqchgms4gdmhjufcv24hpzjcco.

two former jehovah’s witness elders have called for mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse, saying the organisation believes it is “answerable only to god”.. duncan corbett, who was an elder for 18 years, told the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse that the protection of minors and the handling of abuse claims must be taken out of the church’s hands.

“let them deal with the sin and the authorities handle the crime,” he told a hearing in london.. lloyd evans, another former elder who now campaigns against religious fundamentalism, said: “this is a group that feels they are answerable only to god … they don’t feel as though they need to yield to any regulations that are imposed on them.”.

Earnest

Mr Gillies did say that Jehovah's Witnesses would comply with whatever the terms are of a law requiring mandatory reporting of child sexual abuse, that they would have a look at issuing an "edict" that field service should not take place where minors are separated from their parents, and that there is no religious objection for all elders and ministerial servants to be subject to enhanced DBS checks.

If the IICSA simply requires these three things to which Jehovah's Witnesses have no religious objection, that would go a long way to avoid situations that allow paedophiles opportunity within the congregations. It would also make it close to impossible for a paedophile with a criminal record to be appointed as an elder or ministerial servant no matter how much time has passed.

10

"Burnt remains from 586 BCE Jerusalem may hold key to protecting planet."

by Doug Mason in

"a new analysis of 1st temple-era artifacts, magnetized when babylonians torched the city, provides a way to chart the geomagnetic field – physics’ holy grail – and maybe save earth".

https://www.timesofisrael.com/burnt-remains-of-586-bce-destruction-of-jerusalem-help-map-physics-holy-grail/?utm_source=the+daily+edition&utm_campaign=daily-edition-2020-08-09&utm_medium=email#comments.

Earnest

scholar : COJ must be very upset with Israeli archaeologists who consistently date the Fall of Jerusalem in 586 BCE

Neil, I like your sense of humour. You and COJ are strange bed-fellows. It should be noted that the geomagnetic field is not being used to date the destruction of Jerusalem, but the destruction of Jerusalem is used to date the geomagnetic field as it existed at that time. That is why the PLOS ONE article is entitled The Earth’s magnetic field in Jerusalem during the Babylonian destruction: A unique reference for field behavior and an anchor for archaeomagnetic dating.

The dating of the destruction of Jerusalem to 586 BCE is based on the book The fall and rise of Jerusalem: Judah under Babylonian rule, 2005, by Oded Lipschits, who is also one of the editors of the article. In a review of his book in The Journal of Theological Studies, 2007, the reviewer wrote of the destruction of the Temple in 587 BCE so it just depends on what dating system you use (as you know).

The importance of this "anchor" for archaeomagnetic dating is that in this period the use of radiocarbon dating is very limited in its precision, with a variation of 200 years. The detailed biblical descriptions regarding the destruction of Jerusalem enable the dating of the paleomagnetism found in the ruins to less than a year. This can then be used as an anchor to help constrain the chronology of previous and future archaeomagnetic data from the same period and help validate suggested links between the Babylonian campaign and destruction layers in other sites.

23

Transparency in Field Service Hours

by Earnest in

i notice that in the recent instructions for new regular pioneers (2020-08-s-236-e) it lists a number of assignments for which a pioneer can be credited (up to 75) hours in a month.. these include:construction oversight, assembly hall oversight, assembly oversight, and convention oversight, as well as serving as temporary volunteers at bethel, commuter bethelites, remote volunteers, bethel consultants, hospital liaison committee members, patient visitation group members, disaster relief committee members, local design/construction department field representatives and maintenance trainers, and so forth.

approved assignments also include assisting with kingdom hall construction when such is done at the request of the branch office or its representatives overseeing the project, assisting with pre and post-assembly or convention work, assisting with work at assembly halls, conducting or participating in congregation meetings held in prison, as well as attendance at a theocratic school or class .

when i was pioneering and doing pre and post-assembly work i was told i could include the time spent working in my monthly report, which i did.

Earnest

slimboyfat : I think the whole concept of “pioneer” is a bit of a throwback anyway. At one time pioneers were allowed to purchase the literature for a reduced price. This was the primary material benefit of being a pioneer, and in that context it made sense to ensure that publishers “qualified” to access this “provision”.

I believe the original reason for reporting field service was because colporteurs / pioneers were entitled to keep the income from the literature to defray expenses. In the article I Am Learning to Love the Colporteur Work More Each Day (Watchtower, May 15, 2012) it says :

By 1897, nearly one million Dawns had been distributed, largely by the colporteurs. Most of them lived on the small reimbursement they received for each Watch Tower subscription or book they placed.

In Zion's Watch Tower of April 1881 it first presents this idea of remuneration in the article "Wanted 1000 Preachers". It says (p.214) :

As few could afford to travel, pay their board and clothe themselves without some income, we propose to furnish the TRACTS and DAY DAWNS free, and to allow any such person to take subscriptions for the WATCH TOWER, using the money obtained from both of these sources, ("Day Dawn and Watch Tower," - the Tracts are free and must not be sold,) in defraying necessary expenses. Should your receipts be more than would be needed to pay expenses, (not at all probable,) you would be expected to make some returns to us.

It was only in 1943 that there was a time requirement and so a report was needed to show the number of hours spent in the ministry. In an article "Righteous Requirements" in The Watchtower July 1, 1943 it says (p.205):

[The Lord] says, 'Let us assign the field, the world, to special pioneers, regular pioneers and companies of Jehovah's witnesses in an orderly way,,,' He says the requirements for special pioneers shall be 175 hours and 50 back-calls per month ,,,; and for regular pioneers 150 hours and as many back-calls and studies as can be properly developed during that time. And for company publishers he says, 'Let us make a quota of 60 hours and 12 back-calls and at least one study a week for each publisher.'

Thereafter the number of hours spent became a measure of spirituality and a requirement for all of Jehovah's witnesses and not just pioneers.

23

Transparency in Field Service Hours

by Earnest in

i notice that in the recent instructions for new regular pioneers (2020-08-s-236-e) it lists a number of assignments for which a pioneer can be credited (up to 75) hours in a month.. these include:construction oversight, assembly hall oversight, assembly oversight, and convention oversight, as well as serving as temporary volunteers at bethel, commuter bethelites, remote volunteers, bethel consultants, hospital liaison committee members, patient visitation group members, disaster relief committee members, local design/construction department field representatives and maintenance trainers, and so forth.

approved assignments also include assisting with kingdom hall construction when such is done at the request of the branch office or its representatives overseeing the project, assisting with pre and post-assembly or convention work, assisting with work at assembly halls, conducting or participating in congregation meetings held in prison, as well as attendance at a theocratic school or class .

when i was pioneering and doing pre and post-assembly work i was told i could include the time spent working in my monthly report, which i did.

Earnest

slimboyfat : The phrase “some time should be spent on the ministry each month” at the end gives the game away. It indicates there were some “pioneers” who were fulfilling their entire monthly quota using time spent on assignments and none on the ministry.

Thanks for your comment, slim. That thought entered my mind as well. You're right, it doesn't say these credited hours are not included in the annual report although that is what I inferred. I suppose we'll never know but I'm inclined to think the Society is so pedantic about what can be counted, these hours are more likely to be included in hours spent on charity work or similar.

Edited to thank Drearyweather for his clarification on credited hours.

23

Transparency in Field Service Hours

by Earnest in

i notice that in the recent instructions for new regular pioneers (2020-08-s-236-e) it lists a number of assignments for which a pioneer can be credited (up to 75) hours in a month.. these include:construction oversight, assembly hall oversight, assembly oversight, and convention oversight, as well as serving as temporary volunteers at bethel, commuter bethelites, remote volunteers, bethel consultants, hospital liaison committee members, patient visitation group members, disaster relief committee members, local design/construction department field representatives and maintenance trainers, and so forth.

approved assignments also include assisting with kingdom hall construction when such is done at the request of the branch office or its representatives overseeing the project, assisting with pre and post-assembly or convention work, assisting with work at assembly halls, conducting or participating in congregation meetings held in prison, as well as attendance at a theocratic school or class .

when i was pioneering and doing pre and post-assembly work i was told i could include the time spent working in my monthly report, which i did.

Earnest

I notice that in the recent Instructions for New Regular Pioneers (2020-08-S-236-E) it lists a number of assignments for which a pioneer can be credited (up to 75) hours in a month.

These include:
construction oversight, Assembly Hall oversight, assembly oversight, and convention oversight, as well as serving as temporary volunteers at Bethel, commuter Bethelites, remote volunteers, Bethel consultants, Hospital Liaison Committee members, Patient Visitation Group members, Disaster Relief Committee members, Local Design/Construction Department field representatives and maintenance trainers, and so forth. Approved assignments also include assisting with Kingdom Hall construction when such is done at the request of the branch office or its representatives overseeing the project, assisting with pre and post-assembly or convention work, assisting with work at Assembly Halls, conducting or participating in congregation meetings held in prison, as well as attendance at a theocratic school or class

When I was pioneering and doing pre and post-assembly work I was told I could include the time spent working in my monthly report, which I did. After all, it was all sacred service. However, I notice the instructions now given to pioneers is that they

should report this activity to the congregation in the 'Comments' section of your Field Service Report (S-4). The hours spent working on an approved assignment should not be combined with the hours spent in field service.you should keep a record of all the hours spent working on the assignment during the month. You should report this activity to the congregation in the “Comments” section of your Field Service Report (S-4). The hours spent working on an approved assignment should not be combined with the hours spent in field service. Although your theocratic assignment is part of your sacred service, some time should be spent in the ministry each month.

I occasionally read on this forum the suggestion that the amount of field service is exaggerated, so while I personally don't see this record keeping as a scriptural requirement I do applaud their transparency.