Posts by Earnest

9

Federal court in Montana asked to impose sanctions on Watch Tower and its top lawyers Brumley and Taylor

by Corney in

in two child abuse cases litigated in a us district court in montana, plaintiffs recently filed identical motions for sanctions against watch tower pa, philip brumley (general counsel for whq/wt) and joel taylor (associate general counsel for wt), accusing them of lying to court and vexatiously delaying the case:.

here, with the hope that the court would dismiss plaintiffs’ cases against wtpa, in-house counsel brumley signed affidavits that were materially false and intentionally misleading.

doc.

Earnest

Sanctions were awarded by the Court against Brumley but not against Watch Tower or Taylor, saying (p.8) :

Were the Court to sanction Taylor now, such a sanction would be supported by nothing more than speculation.

18

Watchtower lawyer fined for misleading the court

by Diogenesister in

watchtower lawyer david brumley has been fined for misleading the court during the discovery process of the montana case.

the result was another 17 months of the courts time and the plaintiff having to produce evidence that wtpa did have a pivotal role in congregational business, which brumley had denied hoping that the courts would take his word for it.

he will be personally responsible for reimbursing the costs accrued by the plaintiff, due to his misleading affidavit.. see mark o donnell's twitter statement here:https://twitter.com/mark_j_odonnell/status/1562205475374043136?t=emdh163jnfi8kb6zch-uga&s=19.

Earnest

Brumley truthfully denies that WTPA currently has a pivotal role in congregational business in Montana, but he does not address whether WTPA had a pivotal role at the time the Plaintiffs sexual abuse took place in the 1970's and 1980's.

So, in his affidavit he states :

10. WTPA has no contact with congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses located in Montana.
11. WTPA does not establish or disseminate policy or procedure to congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses in Montana.
12. WTPA does not appoint or remove elders, ministerial servants or publishers in congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses in Montana.

The Court found (pp.13, 14) that Brumley chose to describe WTPA's contact and role in congregational affairs in Montana solely in present tense.

This demonstrates to the Court a conscious decision to provide only a limited depiction of WTPA's corporate activities and a reckless disregard of documents and other evidence describing a different WTPA in the 1970s and 1980s ...
Therefore the Court finds Brumley's conduct sanctionable ... and orders Brumley to personally satisfy the excess costs, expenses, and attorney's fees incurred by Plaintiffs [due to the delay of 17 months] ... [The Court] declines to consider contempt sanctions against Brumley.

53

Watchtower vs Islam: Why the deafening silence?

by raymond frantz in

why has the watchtower failed spectacularly to evangelize to the muslims?

considering the recent influx of muslim people in european countries you would think that some attempt from the religion that touts the are preaching the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth would have been made.instead the only meaningful attempt dates back to 1953 ,almost 70 years ago!!!!

book " man's search for god.what do you think?

Earnest

There is a Bethel in Senegal which also oversees the work in The Gambia and Mali. The first Kingdom Hall in Mali was dedicated in Sikasso, Mali in December, 1994 (Awake!). Since then Mali has become more volatile and in May this year an Italian family from the Sikasso region was kidnapped. (Reuters).

53

Watchtower vs Islam: Why the deafening silence?

by raymond frantz in

why has the watchtower failed spectacularly to evangelize to the muslims?

considering the recent influx of muslim people in european countries you would think that some attempt from the religion that touts the are preaching the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth would have been made.instead the only meaningful attempt dates back to 1953 ,almost 70 years ago!!!!

book " man's search for god.what do you think?

Earnest

slimboyfat : It would be difficult to tell how much of the preaching in Muslim majority countries is directed at Muslims but there must be at least some.

There are publications available in Arabic (Algeria), Arabic (Egypt), Arabic (Iraq), Arabic (Jordan), Arabic (Lebanon), Arabic (Morocco), Arabic (Sudanese), Arabic (Syria), Arabic (Tunisia), Azerbaijani (Arabic), Kazakh (Arabic), Sindhi (Arabic), and Uighur (Arabic).

There must be sufficient interest to warrant these translations.

slimboyfat : I don’t know if there is a scan of the 1998 brochure ["The Guidance of God - Our Way to Paradise"] anywhere.

You can find it on watchtowerwayback. It quotes from three translations of the Quoran and has a section (p.8) "Some of What the Quoran Says on Paradise and Adam".

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Earnest

@Vanderhoven7

My point is that you are interested in discussing "faith issues". You do it all the time and invite others to join in. Of course you are not compelled to discuss it with DJW but it seems contrary to what a discussion is about. But it's not my quarrel so I shouldn't have said anything. It just left me a bit gob-smacked.

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Earnest

Vanderhoven7 : @DJW I am not interested in discussing faith issues with someone who distains Christian faith.

What an extraordinary copout from one who continually attempts to attack the faith of others.

53

Watchtower vs Islam: Why the deafening silence?

by raymond frantz in

why has the watchtower failed spectacularly to evangelize to the muslims?

considering the recent influx of muslim people in european countries you would think that some attempt from the religion that touts the are preaching the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth would have been made.instead the only meaningful attempt dates back to 1953 ,almost 70 years ago!!!!

book " man's search for god.what do you think?

Earnest

Raymond frantz : [Islam reacting to opposition with violence] might be true [of] Muslim countries but [isn't] true [of] Western European countries w[h]ere Muslims are usually immigrants, there could have [been] a pilot program to reach this people but I never saw any meaningful effort towards them

There is extensive preaching to immigrants in Western European countries. Some muslim families still react with violence should a family member convert, so this "program" is not highly publicised. The fact that you never saw it does not mean it doesn't exist.

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

Earnest

Anony Mous, you write such rubbish without any substantiation.

Anony Mous : Wasn’t Russel sued over Miracle Wheat and Millenial Beans too and lost?

No.

Anony Mous : CT Russell was accused by his wife of having sex with their underage foster child, and many others admitted him being cruel towards people in his immediate vicinity.

Maria (Russell's wife) never accused Russell of having sex with anyone, but did accuse him of hugging and kissing their foster daughter, Rose Ball, who was then 25.

Russell sued both the Chicago Mission Friend and the Washington Post for libel for charging him with immorality and both papers settled out of court in his favour.

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

Earnest

Sea Breeze : Now, [Russell's] lies are confirmed and irrefutable, a matter of record.

What is noteworthy is that the reporters in court never picked up on any accusations approaching perjury. Any reference to Russell's ability to read Greek, be it letters or language, was so peripheral it didn't merit comment in the newspapers. In their minds the accusations made by Ross focused more on Russell's marital difficulties and ordination - subjects already raised by newspapers such as the Brooklyn Eagle, from where Ross's original booklet admitted he had obtained most of his material. And crucially, the newspapers of the day explained that Ross was not found guilty on the technicality I described in my earlier post. If Russell had brought a civil (rather than criminal) action against Ross there would likely have been a different result, as there was in his civil actions against the Washington Post and Chicago 'Mission Friend' where both cases were decided in his favour.

Further, the full transcript of the key hearing where Russell was cross-examined by George Staunton is not a matter of record as neither Staunton's copy nor that of Rev. Ross seems to have survived. So the only unbiased sources are those newspaper reports which did not have a stake in the game.

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

Earnest

Sea Breeze, a little bit of background to the pamphlet you are quoting is probably in order.

Wikipedia reports that Rev. J. J. Ross first published and distributed a four-page leaflet titled, Some Facts about the Self-Styled "Pastor" Charles T. Russell (of Millennial Dawn Fame) in June 1912. He alleged that Russell was involved in questionable business practices, had defrauded his estranged wife, and denounced his qualifications, legitimacy and moral example as a Pastor.

At that time Canada had two laws governing libel. Under the one the falsifier may be punished by the assessment of damages and money. Under the other, criminal libel, he is subject to imprisonment. Russell entered suit against Rev. Ross under the criminal act, at the advice of his attorneys, because as Ross had no property, a suit for damages would not stop him. The lower Court found there was a case to answer and committed Ross to appear before the high court to answer an indictment. But when the case went to the high court the Judge called up an English precedent and told the Grand Jury "Unless the jury finds that this alleged libel would cause a breach of the public peace in Canada then no indictment should be returned, but the parties should resort to civil suit for damages." As Russell lived in New York and would not breach the peace anyway, the jury returned "no bill". Russell did not resort to civil action for damages as he was advised that it would be useless as Ross was financially irresponsible and could not be compelled by a civil action to publish a retraction.

With this as background, Ross then published the pamphlet which you quote from, knowing that Russell was unlikely to go through the whole rigmarole again. What did Russell actually say during cross-examination? According to the Wikipedia article, he said that he had attended public school for seven years, having left when he was about fourteen years of age, after which he received instruction through private tutors. He said that he was versed in Latin terms "to an extent" but did not know Hebrew or Greek, that he had never been ordained by any bishop or minister, and had never attended a theological seminary or any schools of higher learning.

Clearly, then, Ross leaves out the fact that Russell received instruction through private tutors after he left school at fourteen, which was not uncommon in those days. Ross says that the Attorney asked "Do you know the Greek"? In fact, the Attorney asked "Do you know the Greek alphabet"? And as for ordination, anyone who has been a JW understands that Russell was claiming ordination, or authorization to preach, came from God not any body of men. In short, Ross was a terminological inexactitudiner.

Those interested can read Rutherford's account of the trial in A Great Battle in the Ecclesiastical Heavens, pp.31-37 and Russell's comments in the Watchtower of September 15, 1914, pp.5543-5544,