Posts by Earnest

78

God, one person, or three?

by slimboyfat in

the trinity doctrine says god is three persons in one being.. yet the bible says god is one.. gal 3.20 a mediator, however, implies more than one party; but god is one.

niv.

gal 3.20 now a mediator is not for just one person, but god is one.

Earnest

1 Corinthians 8:6 says there is to us one God (the Father) and one Lord (Jesus Christ). How clearer can you be?

16

Elder abuser in Sunshine Coast down under (?)

by carla in

not sure if this has been posted or not, apologies if it has.

i did a quick search and did not see it.

https://archive.md/5zcdi -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure accused of horrific sex crimes has been remanded in jail for fresh offences which allegedly occurred the same day he attended court.. and https://archive.md/r2o6x -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure who allegedly used his position in the church to sexually assault young men has been arrested by police.

Earnest

Desirousof Change : Is there any clarification on whether he was in an appointed position of any kind when the abuse happened?

Paragraph 2 in my post above:

A Jehovah’s Witness spokesman told the Sunshine Coast Daily that "the local man in question has no appointed position within the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses and was not in an appointed position throughout the time of the alleged events”.

16

Elder abuser in Sunshine Coast down under (?)

by carla in

not sure if this has been posted or not, apologies if it has.

i did a quick search and did not see it.

https://archive.md/5zcdi -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure accused of horrific sex crimes has been remanded in jail for fresh offences which allegedly occurred the same day he attended court.. and https://archive.md/r2o6x -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure who allegedly used his position in the church to sexually assault young men has been arrested by police.

Earnest

DesirousOfChange : Evidently the Aussie court system moves as slow as it does here in the US.

He was charged in August 2022 on 21 counts of rape, 14 of procuring sexual acts by false pretences, torture and common assault. These allegedly involved three young men and his grand-nephew over a 10-year period although 45 of the 54 charges involved his grand-nephew only. Application for bail was abandoned on August 31 and the case adjourned to October 28 2022.

A Jehovah’s Witness spokesman told the Sunshine Coast Daily that "the local man in question has no appointed position within the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses and was not in an appointed position throughout the time of the alleged events”.

On October 28, 2022 police were granted more time to prepare the case. The matter was adjourned until December 2, 2022. In a hearing on January 20, 2023 it was said that three witness statements were outstanding including one witness who had moved overseas. This was obtained on February 16.

There was a hearing on February 17, 2023 to say that the brief of evidence was complete including video footage. The matter was adjourned for a directions hearing on April 21 2023.

On August 29 2023 he applied for bail but this was adjourned to August 31.

The man was taken into custody again in September 2023 after he was charged with with one count of attempting to pervert justice, two of distributing intimate images of another person without consent, one of threatening to distribute an intimate image, one of sexual assault and one of possessing an S4 medicine.

He most recently appeared in court on December 11, 2023 and there was another hearing on December 18. There will be a commital hearing on March 20, 2024 where seven witnesses will be cross-examined.

37

They Came To The Door!

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

Earnest

Out of interest, the reason it was thought the "calling to a heavenly hope" ended in 1931 is discussed in the November 15, 1933 Watchtower, in the article Laborer's Wages (pp.339-345) about the parable of the penny/denarius (Matthew 20), and particularly the discussion on Pay Day (p.342). There it says (para.17) :

The facts in fulfilment of the prophetic parable show that “early in the morning” corresponds to the year A.D. 1919, which was the beginning of the Elisha work after the coming of the King to the temple. Counting the hour for a year, as shown by the facts foregoing, and which is supported by the Scriptures, the “even” or close of the twelfth hour (Matt. 20: 8), the period of time mentioned in the parable, came to a close with the year A.D. 1931.

However, the January 15, 1967 Watchtower had an article on The Modern Fulfillment of the Penny (pp.50-56) which had a different understanding of the parable, and so after that there was not any scriptural basis for saying when the heavenly calling ended. It was assumed it ended in 1935 because that was when the "great crowd" was identified, but there was nothing in scripture to point to that year.

37

They Came To The Door!

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

Earnest

A Question from Readers in the May 1, 2007 Watchtower addresses the question "When does the calling of Christians to a heavenly hope cease?"

It explains that between 1933 and 1966 it was understood that the "calling to a heavenly hope" ended in 1931 with a few exceptions to replace any who had become unfaithful. After 1966 it was believed this "call" ended in 1935. However, the article then says "it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends.".

Since then the number who believe they have been spirit-anointed has gradually risen as you note.

37

They Came To The Door!

by NotFormer in

jw
friends

going door to door with their "memorial" invitation.

"so you can pass the emblems but nobody partakes?

them: "we can explain who is to partake".. me: "all jesus' followers".

Earnest

Hi NotFormer, it seems I may have confused things in my post on another thread.

Revelation 14:1 says that the 144,000 are standing with the Lamb on Mount Zion. This is understood to be in heaven. The spirit-anointed Christians on earth (referred to as "the anointed") are those who have a heavenly hope that when they die and are resurrected they will become part of the 144,000 in heaven.

Between 1927 and 2012 the FDS was believed to consist of the entire body of the anointed on earth. Now it is believed it only consists of the GB collectively.

So the FDS is not identical with the 144,000. The FDS is on earth and the 144,000 are in heaven.

You are right that it is only the anointed who partake of the Lord's Evening Meal. This is because they are part of the covenant for a kingdom (Luke 22:29) to rule as kings with Christ (Revelation 5:10)

The change in identity of the FDS does not affect whether or not someone is spirit-anointed or their heavenly hope. It does not affect whether they will rule as kings with Christ. In fact, for the overwhelming majority it doesn't affect them at all.

As a group the anointed are also referred to as "the remnant", the remaining ones on earth. Contrary to what Sea Breeze wrote, "the remnant" consists of all the anointed, not just the GB.

To be a member of the Governing Body you must be (or claim to be) spirit-anointed. So they will continue to partake along with all the other anointed at the Lords Evening Meal.

As mentioned in the post I referred to, when the group work together as the Governing Body, they act as 'the faithful and discreet slave'. Whether "working together as the Governing Body" means it only occurs in a properly convened meeting is not stated. But as I hope it is now clear, partaking has nothing to do with whether or not someone is part of the FDS.

23

What has changed since January 2009?

by KerryKing in

hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.

i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.

doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.

Earnest

NotFormer : Are they double dipping on the King of the North/King of the South prophecy, giving it multiple fulfilments?

Exactly. The King of the North and South were constantly changing identities in the stream of time (full details in chapter 10 of Your Will be Done on Earth, 1958, pp.220-263, and chapter 14 of Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy!, 1999, pp. 230-255).

Except, as we now know, between some time in the 2nd century and the second half of the 19th century when the kings vanished.

NotFormer : Would the new light have been the subject of watercooler conversations by JWs?

Yes, of those who keep pace with the chariot. There is a lot of historical trivia related to the world powers which is second nature to JWs.

NotFormer : Even that [Zenobia was King of the South] is confused: Syria is north of Israel/Judah/Judea.

Page 254 of Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy!, reports that :

An opportunity for Zenobia to expand her regal powers came in 269 C.E. when a pretender disputing Roman rulership appeared in Egypt. Zenobia’s army swiftly marched into Egypt, crushed the rebel, and took possession of the country. Proclaiming herself queen of Egypt, she minted coins in her own name. Her kingdom now stretched from the river Nile to the river Euphrates. It was at this point in her life that Zenobia came to occupy the position of “the king of the south.”—Daniel 11:25, 26.

So at the time Zenobia became King of the South she was queen of Egypt (south of Israel/Judah/Judea), and that is where the warfare with the King of the North (Aurelian) initially took place.

16

Elder abuser in Sunshine Coast down under (?)

by carla in

not sure if this has been posted or not, apologies if it has.

i did a quick search and did not see it.

https://archive.md/5zcdi -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure accused of horrific sex crimes has been remanded in jail for fresh offences which allegedly occurred the same day he attended court.. and https://archive.md/r2o6x -a sunshine coast jehovah’s witness figure who allegedly used his position in the church to sexually assault young men has been arrested by police.

Earnest

If this newspaper account is behind a paywall it can also be read here.

The Brisbane Courier Mail of December 18, 2023 reported :

Seven witnesses will be questioned at an important hearing as court proceedings continue for a Sunshine Coast Jehovah’s Witness figure facing 50 charges including historic rape allegations.

The Mooloolaba man, who cannot be named for legal reasons, did not appear in the Maroochydore Magistrates Court on Monday, December 18, where his case was quickly adjourned until 2024.

The accused was charged in August, 2022 on 54 charges including rape, incest and torture, then was taken into custody again in September after he was charged with six additional offences.

A brief of evidence has not been completed for the six charges and the man remains remanded in custody.

Police prosecutor Jeanette Grigoris said seven witnesses will be cross-examined at a committal hearing on March 20, 2024, which is expected to take one day.

Magistrate Chris Callaghan said the man’s personal appearance would be required.

He faced court in person for the first time in person for a directions hearing on December 11, where defence counsel Remy Kurz applied for disclosure of evidence on the man’s behalf.

Throughout the duration of the hearing, the man pressed himself into the corner of the dock, turned his back or covered the side of his face as to hide himself from the public gallery.

The court heard on Monday that 45 of the 54 charges involved one alleged victim, who was related to the man, and several of the victims were in the same bible study group.

After considering the application for disclosure from Mr Kurz, magistrate Chris Callaghan ordered four of 39 items of evidence to be disclosed by prosecutions.

It was then revealed both parties had been waiting for from the church regarding the time period during which the alleged offences had occurred.

Mr Callaghan also ordered for the documents from the church to be disclosed, inspected and copied to prosecutions and the man’s law firm.

Mr Kurz said it was an “unusual case” where the alleged offences span between 2008 and 2019.

“There are numerous graphic recordings, effectively home sex videos,” Mr Kurz said.

He said the court must look “back in time” to gain insight of what would become a key issue of a trial, that being whether any of the victims had given consent.

23

What has changed since January 2009?

by KerryKing in

hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.

i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.

doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.

Earnest

In the article "The King of the North" in the Time of the End in the May 2020 Watchtower, pp.2-7, paragraph 5 says :

At some time during the second century C.E., the true Christian congregation began to be overrun by false Christians ... From that time until the late 19th century, there was no organized group of God’s servants on earth... Why is that fact significant? It indicates that what we read about the king of the north and the king of the south could not apply to rulers or kingdoms that held power from sometime in the 2nd century to the second half of the 19th century. There was no organized group of God’s people for them to attack.*

The footnote (*) reads :

For the reason stated here, it no longer seems appropriate to list Roman Emperor Aurelian (270-275 C.E.) as a “king of the north” or Queen Zenobia (267-272 C.E.) as a “king of the south.” This updates what was published in chapters 13 and 14 of the [1999] book Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy! [pp.240-241]

The identification of Zenobia with the King of the South in the third century C.E. had been consistent since 1891 (in the volume Thy Kingdom Come, pp.32,33). You can read more about her in Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy!, pp.252-255.

23

What has changed since January 2009?

by KerryKing in

hi, i was df'd in jan 09. have not been in touch much with the jws apart from a few memorials i went to.. what with all the online presence they have nowadays, it just feels like a totally different religion.

i have seen them with their tablets and phones at the hall, hardly any physical bibles or books at all, makes me think how ai (or the borg) could so easily change words and phrasing in the bible to suit them without making a big deal of it, like 'a new light' talk or wt article.

doctrinally has much changed since 2009?.

Earnest

Prior to the Annual Meeting in October 2012, the faithful and discreet slave was believed to consist of all those anointed on earth, collectively known as the remnant. However, at that meeting Stephen Lett discussed Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave. In the report on that meeting it said :

From 1919 on, there has always been a small group of anointed Christians at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses. They have supervised our worldwide preaching work and have been directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food. In recent years, that group has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The evidence points to the following conclusion: “The faithful and discreet slave” was appointed over Jesus’ domestics in 1919. That slave is the small, composite group of anointed brothers serving at world headquarters during Christ’s presence who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food. When this group work together as the Governing Body, they act as “the faithful and discreet slave.”