Posts by Earnest

63

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

Diogenesister

I have always found you well-informed and a pleasure to read. The British are usually better informed about South Africa than other nationalities as it used to be a colony before 1910. As far as early South African history goes, prior to the arrival of the Europeans or the Nguni, there were two related peoples who, it is thought, came down the west coast of Africa to settle in what is now Namibia and the Northern Cape. They were hunter-gatherers, commonly known as Bushmen but more correctly as San. Some of these San became farmers over time, and with the extra milk and meat their physique changed and they moved further south, down into the Cape area, and were commonly known as Hottentots but more correctly as Khoisan. So the Khoisan were San with a better diet. The Khoisan were not driven out, but assimilated with the settlers and eventually became what is known as the Cape coloureds, although as I previously said there were also other races involved in that assimilation. The San, the hunter-gatherers, were viewed as thieves and were hunted down like animals. Disease introduced by Europeans also decimated them, as it did the indigenous population in South America. Only pockets of them remained in Namibia and the Northern Cape, but even so their hunter-gatherer life was largely at an end as government expected them live in houses and have their children "educated". This resulted in high rates of alcoholism and petty crime. It has been a sad end to a romanticised way of life.

Mark Twain wrote that there are "lies, damned lies, and statistics". You say that white farmers make up (0.066 of the population) and that they are 1500% more likely to be murdered. Rather than swop statistics (like swopping scriptures in a trinity debate) I would just question that if farmers are 1500% more likely to be murdered ... more likely than who? The average South African? The average white South African? The average white South African owning significant property? The average white South African owning significant property and living in isolated areas? I hope you get my point. In actual fact, the people most likely to be killed in South Africa are young black men who live in informal settlements in urban areas (see Institute for Security Studies, National Injury Mortality Surveillance System, British Medical Journal Global Health). But you don't usually see those deaths in the media. They are just too common to make the news. But anyone, black or white, owning significant property and living in an isolated area will be a target for criminals.

You asked why I left. My father came from London and all my life I heard about how wonderful England was. My heroes were Drake and Nelson and Churchill. I loved playing Monopoly and seeing all the London place-names. I came here because I loved England before I had seen it. It had nothing to do with politics or crime or even apartheid. I just loved England and had to see it.

Diogenesister : For others :the whites are 7% of the population and own 22% of the land

For those interested in land ownership, the most up-to-date Land Audit report (2017) can be read here. It says (p.2) :

The Land Audit reveals that Whites own 26 663 144 ha or 72% of the total 37 031 283 ha farms and agricultural holdings by individual landowners; followed by Coloured at 5 371 383 ha or 15%, Indians at 2 031 790 ha or 5%, Africans at 1 314 873 ha or 4%, other at 1 271 562 ha or 3%, and co-owners at 425 537 ha or 1%.

However, I would strongly recommend this 2025 article to anyone interested. It both updates and puts the report in context. Otherwise I would correctly be accused of lies, damned lies and statistics.

TD : I thought they were experiencing significant drought (?)

I am not in a position to judge which of the two reports are correct, although I note that the African Farming report is more recent. But I can tell you that this year (2025) has been marked by floods in many parts of the country. Of course that is no good for agriculture either but I am just saying that whatever drought there was is over. Of course the more recent implementation of tariffs will affect the American market for South African agriculture and that will affect exports more than drought or flood if they continue.

63

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

Diogenesister

First let me say I am South African and grew up there during the apartheid period. I still have family there and regularly return to visit. There is no dispute that there is a lot of violent crime, although most of the victims are coloured or black. The media usually only reports on the white victims of crime. What is in dispute is that the ANC is intent on genocide and is behind the attacks on farmers. That is nonsense. Further, the number of farmers murdered has been exaggerated. There are roughly sixty farmers murdered each year in comparison with more than 20,000 murders a year in the country. That is sixty too many, but it is not a genocide, it is victims of crime in a crime-ridden country.

Secondly, the ANC is a political party, it is not a party of tribes. It was founded in 1923 by the conservative, educated and religious professional classes of black South Africans, not by tribal leaders, to advocate for the rights of black South Africans. After apartheid became law, many whites also joined the ANC in opposition to apartheid.

Thirdly, your understanding of South African history has some gaps. The Dutch arrived in the seventeenth century and set up a halfway house in Cape Town for their ships travelling to India. There were already people living in the Cape who are commonly known as Hottentots, but more correctly as Khoisan. The coloured people of the Cape are largely descendants of liaisons between the Dutch and the Hottentots although there were other racial groups involved as well. The British arrived in the eighteenth century and as there was a war between Britain and Spain, and Holland was supporting Spain, they took over Cape Town and the area about it. After some time the Dutch living there resented the rule of the British and made their way up north. At the same time that all this was happening there were African people collectively known as Nguni coming down from East and Central Africa towards the south. It's quite a long story about how they became the various tribes we have today, but the main point is that these two movements of people met going in opposite directions at the Kei River, not too far from East London (South Africa). So if we are to speak of "invaders", it was the Dutch who "invaded" areas already occupied by the Nguni as they travelled further north and established the Dutch republics of the Free State and Transvaal.

63

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

Newcastle Advertiser of September 5, 2020 reported on a procession to a farm near Normandien, Kwazulu-Natal, after a couple had been murdered there :

Trucks, tractors, trucks, bakkies, vans, sedans, scooters, motorcycles, helicopters and airplanes – vehicles of almost every description formed part of the Move ONE Million group’s procession deep into Normandien today (September 5).
Residents, in their various vehicles, assembled at the Trim Park from mid-morning and set out at 11.30am, following a route through the CBD before heading out onto the Normandien road. Just after the Horn River bridge, hundreds of symbolic wooden crosses had been erected along the route by volunteers.

The two assailants were sentenced to life imprisonment for each of the murders, as reported in the Mercury News of November 17, 2022.

63

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

Withdrawn.

63

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

Anony Mous : Or alternatively, the government courts now side with Malema because they agree with the ideologies of the communists and promoters of DEI.

Anyone sufficiently interested in the 2022 case which determined that the song did not amount to hate speech, can read the judgement here.

63

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

moomanchu : Imagine reversing the situation. 100,000 white people in a stadium chanting for the death of blacks.

As the title of the opus is "Why do they want to kill all the White People", I would like to address the video of Julius Malema singing Dubul' ibhunu (Kill the Boer) in a stadium in 2023 to an estimated 90,000 supporters. This song arose during the armed struggle against apartheid and became a sort of war cry. The word 'Boer', as in "Kill the Boer", has several meanings depending on the context. It can mean 'farmer', it can mean someone of Dutch origin (Afrikaner) as in Anglo-Boer War, it was often just used to refer to the police or the army (who were primarily white Afrikaners). When it was used during the armed struggle there is no doubt many took it literally. But, even at that point, the song was not about "killing all white people" but specifically those who were their oppressors, and particularly their agents i.e. the police and the army.

Malema first sang this song while he was still a member of the ANC in March 2010. At the time he was taken to court and the high court ruled that the song was "unconstitutional and unlawful". Malema faced trial for "hate speech" in 2011 and was convicted, the judge ordering Malema and the ANC to stop singing the song in public or in private. In 2012 the ANC agreed to stop singing the song, even though they maintained it should be understood in its political context and not literally.

In 2022 Malema (now head of the EFF) was again taken to court for singing the song, where it was debated whether the song amounted to hate speech. The court accepted Malema's argument that the lyrics should not be interpreted literally but in their proper historical context as a statement of resistance to land dispossession.

The High Court ruled that (a) the chant and song were not intended to be taken seriously; (b) that there was not evidence of a causal link between the song and violence; (c) that the reference to Boer did not literally refer to White or Afrikaans people; (d) that the song did not incite hatred towards White people generally; and so the song was not hate speech and deserves to be protected under the rubric of freedom of speech. One might not agree with the court's decision, but in 2024 the Supreme Court of Appeal upheld the verdict.

That's not quite the end of the matter, but clearly the courts have ruled that the song is not taken literally today and is protected by freedom of speech. No doubt Malema will continue to court publicity, and the recent involvement by Donald Trump has only served to enhance his reputation.

67

Dinosaur Soft Tissue

by Sea Breeze in

back when the dinosaur soft tissue story was broken in 2005, i predicted that that many more soft tissues would be found and that it wouldn't matter if it was supposedly "65 million" years old or "165 million" years old.

the prediction has proven true and dinosaur soft tissue is routinely now found regardless of supposed age.

this is easy to predict using a literal reading of genesis and accepting it as history.... .

Earnest

Good to see Sea Breeze has a sense of humour.

The "dragon" is Dracorex hogwartsia (palaeontologists also have a sense of humour), dating back to the Late Cretaceous, 66 million years ago. See Are Dragons Real for further details.

63

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

Anony Mous : The spinoff happened last year

uMkhonto weSizwe (MK) - the People's Army - was launched on 16 December 1961 (after Sharpeville). It was disbanded on 16 December 1993. The political party, MK, was formed in September 2023, thirty years after MK disbanded. This was no spinoff, but certainly a propaganda coup as the ANC had failed to register MK as a trademark.

Anony Mous : Significant numbers (a little less than half) of ANC voters as well as various politicians have switched to MK showing you there has historically not been much difference.

The reasons for people switching parties is complex, but to say that "there has historically not been much difference" is a bit absurd when MK (political party) has no history. It was only formed in September 2023. If I was to hazard a guess why some ANC voters and politicians switched to MK I would say it more likely revolved around the personality of Jacob Zuma than anything else.

The only similarity between politics in South Africa and the United States is that people sometimes vote on the basis of personality instead of policy.

Anony Mous : MK was directly calling for outright genocide - they said the quiet part out loud.

What nonsense. I have no love for Jacob Zuma. He is currently charged with two counts of corruption, one count each of racketeering and money-laundering, and twelve counts of fraud. But your suggestion that politicians are "directly calling for outright genocide" is simply pandering to the propaganda of the far right.

63

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

Anony Mous : You quoted the law that said nil compensation may be just and equitable.

Yes. If the previous government purchased a farm for me and I am doing nothing with it, what sort of compensation do you think would be just and equitable if the current government expropriated it?

If you bother to read the Expropriation Act you will see there are safeguards built into it to ensure fairness and justice, including section 25 (1) : "No one may be deprived of property except in terms of law of general application, and no law may permit arbitrary deprivation of property."

Anony Mous (quoting Wikipedia) : Radical political parties, such as the [EFF] and [MK (political party)] ... condone violent, race-based rhetoric and protest action that support land seizures and attacks or crimes against farmers.
Anony Mous : Note that MK are the armed forces of ANC, the thing Mandela was the leader of and convicted for.

It should first be noted that MK (political party) are not the armed forces of the ANC. If you check the Wikipedia link you provided, you will see it was founded in December 2023, that the ANC has threatened legal action over the use of the name, and that MK's leader, Jacob Zuma, was expelled from the ANC in 2024.

Most of the rhetoric about land seizures and crimes against farmers is due to the populist leader of the EFF, Julius Malema. He was also expelled from the ANC ("for racism and hate speech"). He thrives on publicity and is regularly taken to court over his inflammatory language. He has been convicted of hate speech twice, and he is taken to court when he incites illegal activity (see Reuters).

Anony Mous : Your opinion that it is “just crime” does not stroke with the fact it is condoned by and executed by a faction within the major political ruling party.

Neither Malema (EFF) nor Zuma (MK) are factions within the major political party. They were both expelled from the ANC. They are both populists and gained 9.5% and 14.6% respectively in the 2024 general election. Not to be sneezed at, I suppose, but neither of them were included in the coalition government formed after the election.

Anony Mous : GenocideWatch.org puts South Africa at stage 6 (there are 8 levels).

(a) There are ten levels, not eight, and the process is not linear.

In other words, the fact that there is Polarization (Stage 6) in South Africa does not mean it is four steps away from genocide. It means one element which contributes towards genocide has been identified. Compare that to six stages in the United States - Classification (Stage 1), Symbolization (Stage 2), Discrimination (Stage 3), Dehumanization (Stage 4), Polarization (Stage 6) & Denial (Stage 10).

(b) There are some elements of Stage 6 (Polarization) which are true in South Africa, like "extremists drive the groups apart", but other elements like "the dominant group passes emergency laws or decrees that grants them total power over the targeted group" are irrelevant. South Africa does go through periods when it is more polarized than others, often coinciding with elections, but in general people get along well.

Anony Mous : Here is the EU asking questions a few years ago: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2018-000476_EN.html

That question was specifically put by Udo Voigt,. a German politician and former Member of the European Parliament for the far-right and Neo-Nazi National Democratic Party of Germany between 2014 and 2019. It would seem he was influenced by the propaganda of the far-right in South Africa, as his claims that the murder rate among white South Africans is three times higher than the national average, while that of white farmers is six times higher is easily debunked. In the 2022/23 year there were 51 murders on farms of a total of 27,494 murders nationwide. According to Afriforum there were roughly 60 farm murders a year between 2010 and 2019. Most murders occur in the predominantly black/coloured townships where there are barely any whites.

Anony Mous : But nobody is genociding Gazans/Israelis except Hamas.

GenocideWatch says this :

Genocide Watch has concluded that Israel has committed all five acts of genocide enumerated in the Genocide Convention. Israel’s war and destruction of the Palestinian population of Gaza exemplifies all ten stages of genocide. Please read Genocide Watch’s careful analysis of the conclusive evidence of genocide by Israel in our report: Genocide is Never Justifiable.
The Panel of Experts in International Law convened by the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, UN Special Rapporteurs convened by the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and other reputable human rights organizations have also concluded that Israel is committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide in Gaza.

63

Why do they want to kill all the White People?

by liam in

the hatred against whites is escalating to an unprecedented degree.

in south africa, they are calling for complete genocide of white people.

for some reason they are targeting all the white farmers.. i’m so glad trump noticed.

Earnest

Anony Mous : That is what the law said, there was no provision for expropriation, land could not be transferred to blacks, but could also not be forcibly transferred to the state.

Of course there were provisions for expropriation, e.g. Expropriation Act 1975. But the apartheid state didn't need to expropriate land, they just declared it a white group area and all other races had to move.

Anony Mous : It displaced primarily poor people that had moved to the cities

It displaced everyone who was not white - poor, middle-class or wealthy.

Anony Mous : The law you quoted that is being implemented shows clearly that equity (aka DEI or perceived race benefit) is the measure, not land value

The law says that the amount of compensation must reflect relevant circumstances including (Section 25 (3)) :

(a) the current use of the property;
(b) the history of the acquisition and use of the property;
(c) the market value of the property;
(d) the extent of direct state investment and subsidy in the acquisition and
beneficial capital improvement of the property; and
(e) the purpose of the expropriation

Anony Mous : Reparations are always bad...

Why?

Anony Mous : It also doesn’t justify the slaughter and rape which has been independently verified to be on the order of a genocide and of that you can actually find evidence.

It didn't occur to me that the reason the South African government is accused of genocide is because of the current situation in Gaza and their "temerity to call out genocide when they saw it". Quite so. There is a lot of crime in South Africa which is why many have left and why farmers have been targeted as they are perceived as being wealthy and isolated i.e. easy prey. But to speak of genocide as if deaths are authorised by the government, as they are in Gaza, is simply self-serving nonsense.