Posts by *jeremiah*

23

The Bible Students still exist!!

by cultswatter in

remember the dubs were called the bible students before rutherford gave them the name jehovahs witnesses.

it looks like there was a split and some of the bible students never accepted that name.

look at this site will ya.

jeremiah

This sounds a little familiar:

The Trinity
We reject the doctrine of a 'Trinity'. This doctrine developed 300 years after Jesus and His Apostles died as a result of disputes within the orthodox church. The Bible teaches that Jesus was the Son of God, nowhere does it speak of him being 'God the Son'.
The Soul
We also reject the idea of an "immortal soul" that goes to heaven at death. The Bible teaches that the only hope for eternal life is through a resurrection when Jesus returns.
Baptism
We believe that baptism is an outward manifestation of ones consecration to the Lord, after they have been enlightened by His Holy Spirit. We believe that sprinkling of babies is not baptism.
The Lord's Return
We believe that the Lord's promised return is not physical to the eye, but spiritual, an invisible presence.

9

2 Thessalonians 2 vs. JW's

by *jeremiah* in

in jw land,...how do they deal with the below verses?.

if christ (according to jw's, not me) returned invisibly in 1914,...then who do they say the "man of lawlessness is who proclaims to be god"?

....because the verses say that christ's return will not happen until this "man of lawlessness" is revealed and will perform deceptive signs and miracles.

jeremiah

Interesting,...thanks Borgia,

This “man of lawlessness” is none other than the clergy class that exalted itself into a ruling position over the “Christian” congregation.

4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

First,...apparently "He" must mean they according to the WTS. Second, how has mainstream clergy set "himself" up in "God's temple"?

I wonder what the WTS considers/ed God's temple?

...and I wonder what kind of miracles the clergy performed at the turn of the century.

9

2 Thessalonians 2 vs. JW's

by *jeremiah* in

in jw land,...how do they deal with the below verses?.

if christ (according to jw's, not me) returned invisibly in 1914,...then who do they say the "man of lawlessness is who proclaims to be god"?

....because the verses say that christ's return will not happen until this "man of lawlessness" is revealed and will perform deceptive signs and miracles.

jeremiah

Zico,

Did the UN exist before 1914? If so, what were the miracles it performed?

9

2 Thessalonians 2 vs. JW's

by *jeremiah* in

in jw land,...how do they deal with the below verses?.

if christ (according to jw's, not me) returned invisibly in 1914,...then who do they say the "man of lawlessness is who proclaims to be god"?

....because the verses say that christ's return will not happen until this "man of lawlessness" is revealed and will perform deceptive signs and miracles.

jeremiah

In JW land,...how do they deal with the below verses?

If Christ (according to JW's, not me) returned invisibly in 1914,...then who do they say the "man of lawlessness is who proclaims to be God"?

....because the verses say that Christ's return will not happen until this "man of lawlessness" is revealed and will perform deceptive signs and miracles. Who was this guy or organization (according to the WT) and what were the miracles that took place before the year 1914?

2 Thess. 2:
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness [a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
5 Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing.

35

Give me a tune to put on my I-pod

by ninja in

i have just gotten myself an i-pod with loads of space...i have exhausted my choice of tunes and still have loads of space left 60+gb....so give me your essential tunes you know i will like.....i like every type of music without exception......ideas please

jeremiah

Beirut

Sigur Ros

The Twilight Sad

The Arcade Fire

Songs: Ohia

Peter Bjorn and John

126

GOVERNING BODY member Carey Barber dies.

by yesidid in

jw
friends

and that's all i know.. he was 101 and appointed as a governing body member in 1977.. .

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/97874/1.ashx.

yesidid.

jeremiah

In the time span of the last six years,...the JW's have lost half of their GB.

Karl F. Klein (1906-2001)

Karl F. Klein was born around 1906, in Southern Germany.

In 1910 his family moves to the United States (Blue island, Chicago suburbs).

In 1917, together with his younger brother, Ted, he meets the Bible Students for the first time.

Baptized in 1918.

On March 23, 1925, enters to Bethel. In 1950 starts working in the Writing Department, where he does research and writes articles.

After having been 38 years at Bethel as a bachelor, he marries in 1963 with Gretel Naggert, whom he had met 12 years before in a trip to Europe.

On November 28, 1974, he was appointed to the Governing Body.

Died January 3, 2001. Source: w85 5/1 20-27 (French).

Lyman A. Swingle (1910-2001)

Lyman Alexander Swingle was born on November 6, 1910, in Lincoln, Nebraska. He was baptized in 1923.

Enter Bethel in April 1930.

On October 1, 1945 Swingle was elected to the Directors Board of the Watchtower.

On June 9, 1956, Lyman Swingle married Crystal Waldrop.

Around 1984 he was appointed secretary-treasurer of the Watch Tower Society of Pennsylvania and Watch Tower Society of New York.

Died March 14, 2001. Sources: w84 5/15 24; jv91; yb81 188 (French).

Milton G. Henschel (1920-2003)

Born on August 9, 1920.

He was baptized while adolescent and in 1939 was already Bethelite.

Shortly after is appointed secretary of the Watchtower's President, Nathan H. Knorr, and travels with him all around the world for several decades.

Milton Henschel is married to Lucille and has a brother called Warren Henschel.

Was appointed to the Governing Body in 1976.

On December 30, 1992 was selected to be the successor of Frederick W. Franz (who had died a week before, when he was 99 years old) in the Presidency of the Watchtower. Henschel was president of the Watchtower until October 7, 2000, when there was a reorganization in the leadership and Don Adams (not a Governing Body member) became the new President of the Watchtower.

Died March 22, 2003. Sources: w77 7/1 394; yb80 112; w89 6/15 22; w89 9/1 26; w93 3/15 31 (French).

Albert D. Schroeder (1911-2006)

Albert D. Schroeder was born on April 7, 1911 in Saginaw (Michigan, E.U.A.)

His maternal grandmother, Elizabeth Darger, used to associate with the Bible Students during World War I. In 1923 Schroeder found the publications of the Bible Students.

First he had the "earthly hope", but after his baptism, in July 24, 1932, in Vandercook Lake, he decided he wanted to be of the "anointed".

On September 13, 1932 he enters to Brooklyn Bethel.

In 1937, when he was only 26 years old, Schroeder is sent by Rutherford to England, to 'put order in the house' among the Jehovah's Witnesses. On May 6, 1942, the English government declared him persona non grata and expulsed him from the country.

He then returns to the U.S.A., and Nathan H. Knorr, third president of the Jehovah's Witnesses, appoints him as secretary and president of the Committee that will organize the Gilead Biblical School (training of missionaries of Jehovah's Witnesses). The school is inaugurated in February of 1943.

In 1955, at an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses in Europe, Schroeder met Charlotte Bowin (born 1920), who had belonged to the 1st Gilead class in 1943 and had been missionary in Mexico and El Salvador. They married in August of 1956 and had a son called Judah in February of 1958.

On December 18, 1974 Schroeder was appointed to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Died March 8, 2006. Sources: w83 3/1 10-17; w85 12/1 26 (French).

Daniel Sydlik (1919-2006)

Daniel Sydlik was born in February 1919, near Belleville, Michigan (U.S.A.), where his family lived in a farm. Sydlik had a difficult childhood: his father, who belonged to the Bible Students, died when he was 3 years old and his mother had to raise the 6 children.

At the end of the 1930s, Sydlik started to show interest for the Jehovah's Witnesses. In September of 1941 he became pioneer and in 1942 became special pioneer in San Pedro (California, U.S.A.) and in Richmond (San Francisco, U.S.A.)

In the Second World War, the government refused to give him the status of Christian minister. Sydlik is judged and in 1944 is condemned to 3 years of forced labor.

He is freed in 1946 and goes to Hollywood as a pioneer.

Sometime after that, Milton G. Henschel (at the time secretary of President Nathan H. Knorr) invites him to Bethel. Sydlik accepts and starts service on October 20, 1946.

At Bethel, he helps in the writing service for 20 years. He is appointed member of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York and Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.

Sydlik is married to Marina, a young girl from Hebburn, England.

On November 28, 1974, he was appointed to the Governing Body.

Died April 18, 2006. Source: w85 6/1 21-26 (French).

Carey W. Barber (1905-2007)

Born on the 4th of July 1905, in Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England.

On April 18, 1921, when he was 16 years old, he is baptized in a small assembly of the International Bible Students Association, in Winniped, Canada.

In April 1923 starts working at Bethel, together with his twin brother Norman.

In 1948 is appointed traveling overseer.

In 1955 enters the 26th Gilead class, where he found Sydney Lee Brewer, a pioneer from Canada, with whom he marries on February 18, 1956. Appointed to circuit service in the Chicago Area, U.S.A.

After 29 years as circuit and district overseer, he is called to the Brooklyn Bethel, to be a Governing Body member in the autumn of 1977. Source: w82 11/15 10-14 (French).

18

"All of Israel will be saved" vs JW salvation

by *jeremiah* in

it seems as if the jw religion in general has much contempt for israel.

correctly me if i'm wrong, but,...in short, the jw religion thinks they have become israel,...."spiritual israel", anyways.

or, in other words, the blessings and promises for israel have been transfered to the wts and it's faithful members.. which brings up an interesting question.

jeremiah

Mary,

Thanks for the research. It (their explanation) really doens't get anymore lame than that. I like how they just barely touch on this issue and really don't explain anything. After the frustration wears off,...it makes for a good laugh.

I wonder if this chapter in Romans and the surrounding issues are ever even touched upon these days inside the organization? I'm thinking it might be avoided like the plague because it must cause much confusion among the sheeple.

________

jeshurun,

Thanks for your commentary. Makes sense! I think we have very similar views on the matter and I appreciate the way that you explain things.

A couple questions for you (somewhat along the same lines):

Let's talk about a different tree for a sec:

32 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.Matt 24

what do u think? Is this national Israel regaining it's statehood in 1948 or when national Israel regains it's spirituality (valley of dry bones) sometime in the future?

....and After this:

In the course of the 70th Week the Jews face an ultimate decision: Will they accept at last their true Messiah, Jesus, or will they follow to a catastrophic end the pseudo-Christ?

just a speculative subject here but,...when Israel flees from Judea, do you believe that's literal, and any speculation where they are going.

Some say that they might be going to Petra. Some say the US will still be in the picture because it mentions, "on the wings of an eagle." Anyways,....any personal speculations?

_______

Raphael,

Thanks,....very interesting.

What's just as interesting for me is that there is a Bible Students Association.

18

"All of Israel will be saved" vs JW salvation

by *jeremiah* in

it seems as if the jw religion in general has much contempt for israel.

correctly me if i'm wrong, but,...in short, the jw religion thinks they have become israel,...."spiritual israel", anyways.

or, in other words, the blessings and promises for israel have been transfered to the wts and it's faithful members.. which brings up an interesting question.

jeremiah

rocky220,

...could you elaborate.

Being from Israel or belonging to the Borg doesn't mean you are saved

huh?

If you read through the original post and everyone else's posts, nothing of the sort in your statement is even hinted at.

Please atleast read threads before you post,...perhaps you will be able to add an opinion that's relative to the context.

18

"All of Israel will be saved" vs JW salvation

by *jeremiah* in

it seems as if the jw religion in general has much contempt for israel.

correctly me if i'm wrong, but,...in short, the jw religion thinks they have become israel,...."spiritual israel", anyways.

or, in other words, the blessings and promises for israel have been transfered to the wts and it's faithful members.. which brings up an interesting question.

jeremiah

Pahpa and jeshurun,

Thanks for your insight and I agree.

While "all Israel" may include those Gentiles who become spiritual Israelites because of their faith, it also has to include fleshly Israel just as the original prophecies indicated.

True.

Yet,...this statement:

Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved

...IMO,...has me thinking that this has to mean 100% "fleshly Israel", simply because it mentions "until the full number of the Gentiles has come in". In other words Israel won't be saved until after the fullness of the Gentiles has been saved.

Personally, I believe when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in then that will be the end of the church age or age of grace and the rapture will occur.

Those in Christ will be gone and "hardened Israel" will be left. After their covenant is broken they will have to flee for their lives. I think a remnant will escape and turn to Christ. Thus all of this remnant of Israel will be saved and it will be "all Israel" because this might be the only Israel left.

The following scriptures tie into this idea.

15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' [ b ] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Matt 24
6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. Rev. 12
14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach. Rev. 12

18

"All of Israel will be saved" vs JW salvation

by *jeremiah* in

it seems as if the jw religion in general has much contempt for israel.

correctly me if i'm wrong, but,...in short, the jw religion thinks they have become israel,...."spiritual israel", anyways.

or, in other words, the blessings and promises for israel have been transfered to the wts and it's faithful members.. which brings up an interesting question.

jeremiah

Thanks Mary,

UGH!.....that is so irritating.

What about verses 11-22?

What the heck is going through their minds in regards to the ingrafted branches analogy?

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!

23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

If this is supposed to be the 144,000, then according to scripture they have to fall,...but not beyond recovery, then their salvation is transferred to the Gentiles and then God will bring them back to fullness. This means that the 144,000 has been or has to be cut off and God will graft them in again.

WTF? When has all this happened?

Ok, so if the JW's say this is "fleshly Israel", then they have to admit that "Israel has not fallen beyond recovery" and will be brought back to "fullness". (...and we all know they will never admit that God is working with Israel and will eventually be "graft back in".

Looks like the JW logic is a lose lose situation whatever their viewpoint.

All they do is make a confused mess of things.