Posts by *jeremiah*

6

I'm looking for a scripture,...can you help

by *jeremiah* in

this scripture talks about prophesying is gods name.. if you prophecy in god's name and it doesn't come to pass then you are not of god.

-something to that affect.

does anyone remember the exact scripture and/ or scriptures?.

jeremiah

This scripture talks about prophesying is Gods name.

If you prophecy in God's name and it doesn't come to pass then you are not of God. -Something to that affect.

Does anyone remember the exact scripture and/ or scriptures?

Thanks

35

Last Night Greys Anatomy *Warning Spoiler***

by BlackSwan of Memphis in

ok well if you haven't seen it, i'm giving you one last chance to click the close button, or back button, whichever you prefer........ .

ok, wtf?!

how does anyone stay under water for that long and live without brain damage?

jeremiah

I've seen the show twice,...and I have to say,...i think it is one of the worst shows on television.

The main character's "profound"/ "enlightened" narration over music meant to produce emotion is sooo irritating and over the top.

Sorry guys,...i just couldn't hold it in any longer.

43

Revived beast sick of Unipolar Babylon the Great

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

today putin accused the united states of making the world a more dangerous place by pursuing policies aimed at making it "one single master".

attacking the concept of a "unipolar" world in which the united states was the sole superpower, he said: "what is a unipolar world?

no matter how we beautify this term it means one single centre of power, one single centre of force and one single master.".

jeremiah

I am someone who is fascinated by eschatology and like to discuss and view others opinions/speculations. I appreciate your commentary with me on this thread.

You are smart enough to figure this out if you just do the research. For once, just once, play the devil's advocate. Defend my position.

Based on my opinions/studies I'm not here to defend your position. I don't see your scenario lining up with the context of scripture. You call my views a fallacious model, and that's fine, but I hope you can respect other's views. I will however look forward to one day hearing more about your position and watching things unfold in our world today and in the future.

76

Am going to be reinstated

by Caine in

jw
friends

hello true believers.

had jc meeting.

will be reinstated next meeting.

jeremiah

I have read the bible and learned of gods grace. So i will not let the bs get to me. I am going back, but in no way am i going back naive. No longer will i guilt trip. and no longer will my self worth be directly proportional to how well i do according to watchtower guidelines. I will go back serving god and not serving men.

Once you've learned of god's grace,...I really don't think that your following statements are possible. God's grace and truly serving god doesn't really mesh with the doctrine and belief system of the WTS. The WTS is a merit-based system of works. The more hours in FS, your meeting attendence, your commenting and executing other "privileges", etc, in the WTS system, defines how "spiritual" a member is. This is serving man.

If you choose to slack on these "works" you will eventually be accused of "not being strong", not having a close relationship with Jehovah, "drifting away", and eventually bad association.

20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" (Gal. 2:20-21)

43

Revived beast sick of Unipolar Babylon the Great

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

today putin accused the united states of making the world a more dangerous place by pursuing policies aimed at making it "one single master".

attacking the concept of a "unipolar" world in which the united states was the sole superpower, he said: "what is a unipolar world?

no matter how we beautify this term it means one single centre of power, one single centre of force and one single master.".

jeremiah

It appears a political kingdom CAN be referred to as carrying on spiritistic practices.

I am in complete agreement with this statement. I can personally associate the phrase "spiritistic practices" with the word religion.

What did all of the cities/kingdoms that were associated with Babylon and thus destroyed by God have in common? - A lot of them were wealthy and greedy, but more importantly they were idolatruos, pagan, and hated God's people the Jews. The latter is why God came against them.

In Rev. 17, "Mystery Babylon" is described and equals a religious entity.

In Rev. 18, Babylon the Great is described as a literal place,...a city, of wealth and commerce.

Is there a connection between the two? More than likely yes, they are associated. A religious entity needs a city for its headquarters. Does this mean the entire city is based on this religion. No, not necessarily. A city still needs to operate commercially. In fact,...Rev 18 says that this is going to be a very wealthy city.

As far as ancient Babylon is concerned it was a literal city on the Euphrates river; right after the flood (Genesis 11:1-10), Babylon was the seat of the civilization that expressed organized hostility to God. Babylon was later the capitol of the empire that cruelly conquered Judah. Babylon, to the Jews, was the essence of all evil, the embodiment of cruelty, the foe of God’s people, and the lasting type of sin, carnality, lust and greed. To those familiar with the Old Testament, the name Babylon is associated with organized idolatry, blasphemy and the persecution of God's people. In the New Testament, the worlds system of the last days is characterized both religiously and commercially as Babylon (Revelation 17 and 18). Therefore, Babylon is a suitable representation . . . of the idolatrous, pagan world-system in opposition to God.

Enough about my take on these prophecies,....I want to know, in your opinion, how the US fits into all this.

Please answer my questions:

If the USA is the harlot, then who are the "martyrs of Jesus' that she has killed? Who has she fornicated with? What nations is she presiding over? Sure, she is a superpower,...and a major world influence, but is she really presiding over nations? How are the colors purple and scarlet associated with the US? What do the seven hills/mountains refer to?

How is the US riding the Beast (Russia)? We are more powerful than Russia at this moment,...but are we really controlling Russia? The Beast uses the Harlot to his advantage and then discards her. How is Russia using the USA to its advantage?

How do you reconcile that the USA is not a city?

If the beast is in existence (like you say it is),...then that means the 10 kings have to be in existence too,...so in your scenario,...who are the ten kings?

43

Revived beast sick of Unipolar Babylon the Great

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

today putin accused the united states of making the world a more dangerous place by pursuing policies aimed at making it "one single master".

attacking the concept of a "unipolar" world in which the united states was the sole superpower, he said: "what is a unipolar world?

no matter how we beautify this term it means one single centre of power, one single centre of force and one single master.".

jeremiah

I believe there is a two-fold application for the Harlot or Babylon the Great.

You have to remember,...I don't believe that these prophecies have manifested themselves yet in our present day.

Ok, so first it says Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and of all the Abominations of the earth. This title is not for literal Babylon; but its spiritual ( mystery ) representation, which is the source ( mother ) of all idolatry ( abominations ) and spiritual adultery ( harlots ).

So you have the spiritual representation because she sits on many waters which are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues; that is, she presides over many nations. She has a universal, international character.

Notice the words that are used:

mother, abominations, harlots, woman, fornication, drunk with the blood of the saints.

These are words associated in scripture with a religious entity not a political one. In the Bible, in a spiritual sense, adultery is the worship of another god.

If the USA is the harlot, then who are the "martyrs of Jesus' that she has killed? Who has she fornicated with? What nations is she presiding over? Sure, she is a superpower,...and a major world influence, but is she really presiding over nations? How are the colors purple and scarlet associated with the US?

Also, how is the US riding the Beast (Russia)? We are more powerful than Russia at this moment,...but are we really controlling Russia? The Beast uses the Harlot to his advantage and then discards her. How is Russia using the USA to its advantage?

Now,...I'm not saying that Roman Catholicism is the Great Harlot,...but lets look at her example in history. In the middle ages she dominated kings and nations and moved political powers to her liking. This example just shows that this is a possibility of how a religious entity can ride a political entity and in doing so,...commit fornication.

Ok, the second application,...is that she needs a headquarters or a city. "And that woman who you saw is that great city that reigns over the kings of the earth."

How do you reconcile that the USA is not a city?

From scripture it looks like not only will Babylon the Great be an entity of power over the nations but she will also reside or have her headquarters in a city. This city will be the focal point of false religion and international wealth and commerce. I don't believe this city is in existence yet.

Start with the fact that all those who have ships at sea have become rich due to her shameless luxury. This particular entity - referred to as Babylon the Great is responsibile for the extra wealth that the world traders enjoy.

I'll repeat,...because the point was made very clear in my last posts,...the city/ religious entity is not in existence yet. What you state above can't happen at this point yet because it doesn't exist. We can see the world moving in this direction (for the spirit of the antichrist is already here),...but it's not in fulfillment.

Why?

12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.

Ok, so we don't have ten kings who have given their power to the Beast yet. These powers are not in existence yet. If the beast is in existence (like you say it is),...then that means the 10 kings have to be in existence too,...so in your scenario,...who are the ten kings?

And remember,...the woman is riding this beast. So where is the woman,...again,...she's not in complete fulfillment yet either.

The city of Babylon the Great will be chosen by the antichrist for his capital and will be either built or rebuilt at a tremendous expense, as they put it up in a hurry. There are indications that this city will be built quite rapidly. That craftsmen from all over the world will be paid premium wages and thousands will descend upon this area with unlimited funds to build this awesome wonderful city that shall be the center of world banking and world commerce. We are told in the book of Daniel that when the antichrist establishes his reign that the craftsmen will prosper in his reign.

43

Revived beast sick of Unipolar Babylon the Great

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

today putin accused the united states of making the world a more dangerous place by pursuing policies aimed at making it "one single master".

attacking the concept of a "unipolar" world in which the united states was the sole superpower, he said: "what is a unipolar world?

no matter how we beautify this term it means one single centre of power, one single centre of force and one single master.".

jeremiah

Have you read the thread where I argue against Babylon the Great being a relgious entity?

Yes,...but I have to disagree. I think my last entry explains why I think Mystery Babylon is a religious entity.

There is an ecumenical wind blowing through many different religions today that I think will culminate just before the Anti-christ comes on to the scene. A one world religion is arising and you can see it at work now. (JW's have no clue and they will be swept up into this eventually,...probably when they are forced to.)

The Anti-christ needs this one world religion to take world control and fool the masses. He will be aided by the false prophet. The false prophet will be either the leader or closely associated with the one world religion and appear to be Christian. Yet he will be evil and "speak like a dragon".

The Anti-christ (beast) along with along with the nation/political entity (beast) will be using the one world religion (Harlot), and in turn, the Harlot will be committing adultery with the beast. She will be in control of the beast, (riding the beast) for a short while until the Anti-christ has what he needs and then he will destroy her.

The disgusting thing that causes desolation is a destructive event.

I agree,...it will be a destructive event,...but for the Jews because their most holy temple will be desecrated.

1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness [ a ] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

There will be a third temple.

This is something that isn't far-fetched and you can see the development of beginning to take place.

http://www.templemountfaithful.org/

http://templemountjerusalem.blogspot.com/

Sorry,...I have to go,...time to leave work.

I'll comment more later.

43

Revived beast sick of Unipolar Babylon the Great

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

today putin accused the united states of making the world a more dangerous place by pursuing policies aimed at making it "one single master".

attacking the concept of a "unipolar" world in which the united states was the sole superpower, he said: "what is a unipolar world?

no matter how we beautify this term it means one single centre of power, one single centre of force and one single master.".

jeremiah

Revelation describes Babylon the Great as having a Kingdom over the Kings of the Earth. It is "filthy rich" and it sits on or attempts to ride the wild beast. The USA is the richest nation on earth. All those with ships at sea have become rich due to her shameless luxury. Go to Davos and see the Americans strut. "her traveling merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth".
Further identifying the Wild Beast. Seven heads and ten horns. Five have fallen - likely Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece. One is - Rome. Another which after it arrives remains a short time. The inheritor of power on the Eurasian World Island was Russia. Moscow brags that it is the "third Rome". The seventh head appears slaughtered. Although it doesn't specifiy the seventh head - but since its revival is considered an eighth head it is the best candidate. The USSR died in Dec 1991. This can't be said of any other modern empire. There is no longer a space on the earth occupied by the USSR. A close view is given in Rev 13:11 of the resurrected beast. It appears lamb-like but then begins speaking like the dragon.

Ok,...so, sorry this is long again.

The great harlot and the seven-headed ten horned beast:

1. Described by the angel:

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

a. I will show you the judgment of the great harlot: Her judgment is assured at the outset. There is never any doubt regarding the fate - and ultimate failure - of Babylon.

i. As a religious system, Babylon came into being long before Christianity, but in Satanic imitation it anticipated the coming true Messiah. According to religious history and legend, the Babylonian religion was founded by the wife of Nimrod (a great-grandson of Noah), named Semiramis. She was a high priestess of idol worship, and she gave birth to a son who she claimed was conceived miraculously. The son, named Tammuz, was considered a savior. Many ancient artifacts remain with the familiar motif of the mother Semiramis holding the savior-infant Tammuz, which predate Christianity. It was also said that Tammuz was killed by a wild beast and then miraculously brought back to life. Baal was the local, Canaanite name for the Babylonian Tammuz.

ii. The Bible makes specific mention of some of the features of the classic religion of Bablyon:

Ezekiel protests against the ceremony of weeping for Tammuz (Ezekiel 8:14)
Jeremiah mentions the heathen practice of making cakes for the queen of heaven (Jeremiah 7:18) and offering incense to the queen of heaven (Jeremiah 44:17-19, 44:25)

b. Who sits on many waters: Here, Babylon sits on many waters; that is, she presides over many nations (compare with Revelation 17:15). She has a universal, international character.

i. This is unification of all false, idolatrous religion, with representatives from apostate Catholicism, Protestantism, as well as a smorgasbord of other religions of the world.

ii. “The woman pictures false religion that will dominate the world in the tribulation period.” (Hocking) Many people like to identify this great harlot with the Roman Catholic Church, but false religion is not limited to any one church.

iii. “That Rome and the Romish system are involved, may readily be admitted; but that this is all, and that the sudden fall of Great Babylon is simply the fall of Romanism, or the utter destruction of the city of Rome, must be emphatically denied.” (Seiss)

c. The inhabitants of the earth were made drunk: Religious Babylon intoxicates kings and peoples. Karl Marx was partly right when he said, “Religion is the opiate of the masses.” He was partly right because empty religion is the opium of the masses.

d. Made drunk with the wine of her fornication: The idea of fornication often has strong associations throughout the Bible with idolatry. Since this is a well-accepted religious system, it is likely to appear as attractive and spiritual, though not necessarily moral.

2. (3-6) What John saw.

So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

a. He carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness: John is carried away into the wilderness; the desolate nature of the wilderness is an appropriate setting for a vision of judgment.

b. Sitting on a scarlet beast: The harlot rides the same beast (seven heads and ten horns) that was previously seen in Revelation 13:1 - the Antichrist and his dictatorship.

i. “Her position, that of riding the beast, indicates on the one hand that she is supported by the political power of the beast, and on the other that she is in a dominant role and at least outwardly controls and directs the beast.” (Walvoord)

ii. Her association with blasphemy and the dragon’s beast are clearly seen from God’s perspective. But to the people of the earth she will look quite religious, and have the “faith” everybody wants.

c. The woman is clothed with emblems of luxury (purple . . . gold and precious stones) and government (scarlet). Yet she offers idolatry (abominations) and impurity (filthiness of her fornication) in this sumptuous setting.

i. Purple and scarlet were colors of splendor and magnificence; the dyes to make fabric these colors were rare and costly.

ii. “We find in the course of church history that one of the deadliest marks of ecclesiastical corruption is the lust for temporal power.” (Barnhouse) Purple and scarlet were the colors of rulers, whether economic or political.

d. On her forehead a name was written: The name on her forehead identifies her in more ways than one. Roman prostitutes frequently wore a headband with their name engraved upon it.

i. “In spite of all her glamour she is nothing but a prostitute.” (Johnson)

ii. There is a stark contrast between the woman of Revelation 12 (representing Israel, God’s people), and this woman (representing idolatrous, false religion).

*Characteristic*	*Woman of Revelation 12*	*Harlot of Revelation 17*
Mothers	Of the Man-Child	Mother of harlots
Notably dressed	In heavenly glories	In worldly splendor
Influential	Moon under her feet	Over earthly kings
Suffering	Attacked by Satan	Attacked by kings

iii. “These two Women, thus related, and set over one against the other as opposites and rivals, must necessarily be interpreted in the same way. As Antichrist corresponds to Christ as a rival and antagonist of Christ, so Great Babylon corresponds to the Woman that bears the Man-child, as her rival and antagonist.” (Seiss)

e. MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT: This title is not forliteralBabylon; but its spiritual (mystery) representation, which is the source (mother) of all idolatry (abominations) and spiritual adultery (harlots).

i. This harlot must be larger than any one branch of a religious institution. She is the embodiment of Satan’s own ecumenical movement - the religion of the world system.

ii. Our world, with its “it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you believe” philosophy, is ripe for the harlot’s seductions. We see the casual disregard for the truth crippling the church today.

f. Drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus : The woman not only persecutes, she revels in her persecution of the godly as a drunk revels in wine.

g. I marveled with great amazement : Why is John amazed? Because this isn’t pagan persecution (such as he knew in his day), but religious error and persecution. This is a psuedo-church, thirsty for the blood of the saints. “False religion is always the worst enemy of true religion.” (Walvoord)

C. The great harlot is interpreted.

1. (7) The angel tells John that the harlot will be explained to him.

But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.”

a. I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her: The focus of the explanation is on the beast. It appeared that the harlot ruled (rode) the Antichrist’s system, but he is the dynamic factor, using her as tyrants have always used religion - as a mere tool to accomplish their purposes. The harlot will draw the world to the Anti-christ.

2. (8) The beast carrying the woman is plainly connected with the beast of Revelation 13.

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

3. (9) Seven mountains associated with the beast.

Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

a. The seven heads are seven mountains: Many quickly associate the seven mountains with Rome and the Papacy, because Rome is well known as the city on seven hills. Yet literally, the Greek word means mountains, not hills.

i. Many commentators - especially those who see all of Revelation fulfilled in history - regard the seven mountains as an irrefutable connection with Rome. Clarke is a good example of this when he writes, “This verse has been almost universally considered to allude to the seven hills upon which Rome originally stood.”

ii. But in the Bible mountains are sometimes a figure of governments (such as in Daniel 2:35) and the city of Rome is built on hills, not mountains.

b. It is probably better to see the seven mountains as the representing the seven kings and kingdoms described in Revelation 17:10. Many people find the connection between religious Babylon and Roman Catholicism irresistible, yet it is flawed in the sense that there is no doubt that religious Babylon will incorporate a strong Roman Catholic element, but it will be much bigger than Roman Catholicism.

i. Indications about Roman Catholicism’s ultimate partnership with a one-world religion are evident in Pope John Paul II’s bizarre involvement with and approval of other anti-Christian religions.

ii. In addressing a prayer gathering of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and others, Pope John Paul II told participants that their efforts were “unleashing profound spiritual energies in the world and bringing about a new climate of peace.” The Pope pledged that “the Catholic Church intends to ‘share in and promote’ such ecumenical and inter-religious cooperation.”

iii. The Catholic Review commented on this and said, “The unity of religion promoted by the Holy Father Pope John Paul II and approved by His Holiness the Dalai Lama is not a goal to be achieved immediately, but a day may come when the love and compassion which both Buddha and Christ preached so eloquently will unite the world in a common effort to save humanity from senseless destruction, and leading to toward the light in which we all believe.”

4. (10) Seven kings and kingdoms.

There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.

a. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come: This is one of the more difficult passages in the Book of Revelation. Some explain these seven kings, five past, one present, and one to come in the succession of Roman Emperors in John’s era. But there are many historical difficulties with this approach. More likely, it is a reference to:

Five have fallen refers tothe five world empires before John’s day: Egypt, Assyria, Babylonia, Medo-Persia, and Greece
One is refers to the world empire of John’s day: Rome
The other has not yet come refers to the one world empire to come: a revival of the Roman Empire

b. When he comes, he must continue a short time: This seventh will quickly be taken over by an eighth - and will become the state of the Antichrist (Revelation 17:11).

i. There are problems with this viewpoint as well (so some have taken the seven as symbolic). This plainly is a difficult passage!

5. (11) The beast (the Antichrist) is clearly identified as the eighth king.

And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

a. Is himself also the eighth: He is of the seven in the sense that he shares characteristics with all previous world empires, but his fate is clear. Perdition means “destruction,” and the beast will be destroyed.

6. (12-15) Ten kings to come, allies of the Antichrist.

“The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.” Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.”

a. Ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet : This probably alludes to a ten-nation confederation (as in the toes of the Daniel 2:24-45 image), but some take ten as a symbolic number.

i. “They are ten kingdoms which shall arise out of the fourth great kingdom there: ten European powers, which in the last time, in concert with and subjugation to the antichristian power, shall make war against Christ. In the precise number and form here indicated, they have not yet arisen . . . What changes in Europe may bring them into the required tale and form, it is not for us to say.” (Alford, 1866)

b. Many have seen the European Economic Community as the potential fulfillment of this. Perhaps, but now there are more than ten nations in this revived European power, and more on the way.

i. There is little doubt of the credentials of the EEC to claim itself a successor to the ancient Roman Empire. The EEC started in 1957, when six European nations met to talk about combining their nuclear, coal, and economic resources. They met together in Rome, and signed the treaty of Rome - the beginnings of the present EEC. In many places in Europe, the EEC flag is just as prominent as any national flag. In the spiritual dynamic of things, it’s no accident that on the back of the Eurodollar coin is a woman riding a multi-headed beast.

ii. We could still say what Alford wrote in 1866: “In the precise number and form here indicated, they have not yet arisen . . . What changes in Europe may bring them into the required tale and form, it is not for us to say.” But it will happen, and this confederation of nations will emerge as an heir to the ancient Roman Empire.

c. These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast : Whatever their exact identity, their actions are clear. They ally with the Antichrist in the war against Christ, in the battle alluded to in the sixth and seventh bowls (Revelation 16:12-21).

d. The harlot presides over peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. This tells us that the harlot’s influence is worldwide, through her connection to the beast. This will be a truly one-world religion.

e. The interpretation of the harlot focuses on her relation to the beast: she is utterly connected to the beast and his government. If this sounds unthinkable, remember that throughout history, religion - not true Christianity - has often been the willing servant and supporter of tyrants.

D. The great harlot is judged.

1. (16) Antichrist’s allies turn on the great harlot.

And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

a. These will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire : This violence probably takes place at the mid-point of the tribulation period. Here, apostate religion discovers the true nature of the beast.

i. Ultimately, the Antichrist will not tolerate any worship except of himself: The son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that he sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)

b. Once his power has been consolidated, the Antichrist no longer needs the help of religious Babylon. He will then work to dismantle and destroy her and her one-world religion.

i. This has always been the goal of tyrants - and most politicians - to use religion for their purposes, then discard it.

2. (17) God’s hand is the One ultimately directs all this.

For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

a. God has put it into their hearts: God has directed the judgment against religious Babylon. God will sometimes use a wicked group (here, the ten kings) to be an instrument of His judgment against another wicked group (here, religious Babylon).

b. To be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast: God has ordained the political support of these ten kings for the Antichrist. In doing so, God gives the world exactly what it wants: godless religion and godless rulers.

3. (18) The great harlot is identified with Rome.

And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.

a. That great city: In John’s day, there was no doubt which city reigns over the kings of the earth. Rome was the political, economic, and religious center of the world in John’s day.

i. But Babylon - in the sense of the world system - has always been that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth. The question for Christians is, “Does it reign over me? Or am I the citizen of a better city, the Jerusalem above?” (Galatians 4:26)

b. Again, the association of this harlot - of religious Babylon - with Rome doesn’t mean that the Roman Catholic Church is identical to religious Babylon, though apostate Roman Catholics will definitely be a part of this great harlot.

i. “It is most direct in Paganism; but it is in Mohammedanism, in Papalism, in the degenerate Catholicism of the Eastern churches, and in all the heretical isms, infidelities, and mere goodishness which afflict our Protestant Christianity as well.” (Seiss)

c.Now, what city this is or where this city is to be located is a matter of speculation. It is quite possible that the city of Babylon described here does not yet exist, but will be built by the antichrist for his capital and for the commercial center of the world. And as they bring the goods by ship and all into this city that there will be a time of tremendous economic prosperity.There are many Bible scholars who believe that the ancient city of Babylon will be chosen by the antichrist for his capital and will be rebuilt at a tremendous expense, as they put it up in a hurry.

However, this also may be a city already in existance,...but the Anti-christ has to be linked to it.

43

Revived beast sick of Unipolar Babylon the Great

by proplog2 in

jw
friends

today putin accused the united states of making the world a more dangerous place by pursuing policies aimed at making it "one single master".

attacking the concept of a "unipolar" world in which the united states was the sole superpower, he said: "what is a unipolar world?

no matter how we beautify this term it means one single centre of power, one single centre of force and one single master.".

jeremiah

You do understand that I don't believe in God and that I don't look at the Bible as the product of a omnicsient being. So my approach is different.

No,...sorry, I guess I over looked that.

Wow,...very interesting approach. I really don't know where to start. I find your approach fascinating.

I do believe in God, as you can probably tell, and do believe the bible is God's inspired word. Therefore, I like to view biblical prophecy in it's written and historical, current, or futuristic context.

I would like to reply much more to your latest post,...but its time to go home.

I'll post again soon.

3

Minneapolis/Saint Paul Craigslist Rant And Raves on JW's

by ColdRedRain in

jw
friends

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/rnr/.

check it out.

and yes, i'm the same lee from south minneapolis.

jeremiah

I just posted my two cents on that Craigslist board.

I suggest as many people here on JWD as possible should post a brief thought on Jdub cult. If many on here would post a small comment it would be cool to bombard this craigslist board.