Posts by stark

57

Jesus Christ, Michael the Archangel does it really matter?

by unbaptized in

jesus christ, michael the archangel does it really matter?.

because at the end of the day he's still our lord and saviour.

he died on a stake for our sins.

stark

"Jesus Christ, Michael the Archangel does it really matter?
Because at the end of the day he's still our Lord and Saviour. He died on a stake for our sins. He is the image of the Almighty God. So what I want to know is does it matter if he was an angel or not? Tell me what you think?"

Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, seemed to think it was important. This is from

2 Corinthians 11:4 "For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough."

If Paul warns about a different Jesus, then in the end some would have a different Jesus, a Jesus that did not die for their sins.

As for Jesus being God... unless God, speaking in Isaiah 43:10, is dreadfully wrong, there is not a mighty god (Jesus) and an almighty God (the Father). The verse says: "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."

And if Jesus is a created being John 1:3 is in trouble, it says: "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

If that verse is true, then everything that had a point of creation was created by Jesus, and since it's illogical for Jesus to have created himself, he has to be an eternal being. Which is good because he's called the Word of God and the Wisdom of God, and since there was never a time when God didn't have His Word, or his Wisdom, that fits nicely.

Jesus is God in human flesh.

15

What is Truth?

by onacruse in

this has been posted elsewhere, but perhaps it is worthy of a revisit:.

this question is one which every sincere christian should ask and seek to answer.

we should learn to love and value truth for its own sake; to respect and honor it by owning and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomsoever presented.

stark

poppers your original question was: " So then, what is reality? How does one determine exactly what that is?"

In your recent post you made a number of truth claims such as:

"Now, that is a great question,"

"to equate "am-ness" with thinking is what has gotten this world so screwed up."

"

It does no good to create ideas around who/what one is,"

"this alone reveals the truth of one's existence."

"What "I" am cannot be put into words, cannot be revealed to others"

and more.

Your post sounds as if you have not only determined that there is a reality, but that you have determined what that reality is. So I give you the obvious question: how do you know?

And you also seem to have answered the final question of my last post which was: "...do you believe that, in reality, you exist?"

I found the answer I was looking for when you said: "What's left when there are no words, that's what I am. See if this is so with yourself as well, and if it is seen then you'll know what I am talking about."

When you use "I am" are you not saying that you are?

15

What is Truth?

by onacruse in

this has been posted elsewhere, but perhaps it is worthy of a revisit:.

this question is one which every sincere christian should ask and seek to answer.

we should learn to love and value truth for its own sake; to respect and honor it by owning and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomsoever presented.

stark

So then, what is reality? How does one determine exactly what that is?

popper, I guess I could give a cheap answer and say that whatever is...is, but that doesn't answer much. What if you went as far back as Descartes and started with being sure of your own existence? He said "Cogito ergo sum" which is Latin for "I think, therefore I am." Apparently he was doubting everything, when it dawned on him that he couldn't doubt that he was doubting. Then he figured to doubt was to think, and someone was doing the thinking. So the conclusion was "I think, therefore I am." So the question I leave you with, that may sound a bit odd but do you believe that, in reality, you exist?

I'm asking because I see the picture you have and it looks like kali, which suggests you may be Hindu and many Hindus believe they are only God's dream. Pardon me if I'm wrong.

15

What is Truth?

by onacruse in

this has been posted elsewhere, but perhaps it is worthy of a revisit:.

this question is one which every sincere christian should ask and seek to answer.

we should learn to love and value truth for its own sake; to respect and honor it by owning and acknowledging it wherever we find it and by whomsoever presented.

stark

Truth is that which corresponds with reality. No matter how many opinions, there are or how sincerely someone believes their opinion if it does not correspond with reality it is a wrong opinion. That goes for the Christian as well as the non-Christian. Mr. Russell spoke of different flowers of truth, but in reality truth, by definition is exclusive. Jesus Christ made an exclusive truth claim he said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Now if what he said does not correspond with reality it is not a truth claim, and is wrong, no matter how strongly the Christian believes it. However, if his claim does correspond with reality then Jesus is exclusively the only way to God, which makes all other beliefs wrong. There can not be another “flower of truth” that is truly true yet contradicts Jesus’ claim, if indeed, Jesus’ claim corresponds with reality.

It’s interesting that I often hear people speak against Christianity because it is so exclusive, yet every religion has a point of exclusion, why is Christianity always singled out as unreasonable because it’s exclusive?

This, of course, is my opinion the question is does it correspond to reality?

72

Mormons != JW. Read these genuine quotes from active and inactive members!!

by Qcmbr in

with interest i find that once again the lds faith is cast as the twin tower of mordor to the watchtower orthanc.

we are not the same my precious.

read these quotes below to see just how different we really are.

stark

"I can undesrtand why some religious people get peeved by us - we have a prophet, a martyr, angelic visits, continuing revelation, new scriptures, healings and stuff. I guess they want us to be boring and give all that up and just do like they do and pretend we know the scriptures better than anyone else so we must be right"

I thought Qcmbr was just kidding around when he posted, this quote was rather amusing.

4

Heavenly bliss

by Homeros in

the watchtower society on false hopes for life in heaven (the watchtower, june 1 1981 page 6):.

bliss in heaven sprawled out on a billowy cloud, twanging a harp as you float along in space and eternity?

it is not that vain and useless existence that idle dreamers have conjured up as heavenly life.".

stark

" And what is that? Bliss in heaven sprawled out on a billowy cloud, twanging a harp as you float along in space and eternity? No! It is not that vain and useless existence that idle dreamers have conjured up as heavenly life. "

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that about our existence in heaven. That's why, in so much of their doctrine, the JW's have no credibility, you can't trust them. They set up a straw-man argument, knock it down, and then act as if they've stumped traditional Christianity. They do this with the Trinity, and with the Resurrection and other doctrine. The sad thing is that too many Christians don't know enough about their Bible to recognize the trick.

28

Religion vs. Christ

by *jeremiah* in

religion vs. the reality of a personal relationship with christ.

the following is what i have come to believe the through bible reading:.

religion: can have outward forms that bring us into bondage to those forms.

stark

Stark
Were you a JW?

Namasti,

No, never a JW.

I'm asking because it appears to me that you are still trapped. You left an all or nothing mentality and adopted another-- "all or nothing" Bondage is bondage.

Sorry, but I'm not absolutely certain what you mean. What do you mean by "an all or nothing mentality" and by "bondage."?

Believing there is only one path, one way, one road to "salvation" is far from true freedom.

I guess before I deal with "only one path" to salvation I should ask; do you believe in any roads to salvation? Are all religions true? Are some religions true? Are no religions true?

People have misinterpreted Christ message completely. He never wanted worship and he himself was universal if you look deep enough.

First, how do you know people have misinterpreted Christ's message?

Now, if I accept your assertions about Jesus (that he never wanted to be worshipped) as truth am I in bondage to that teaching about Jesus? At what point is a truth claim considered bondage?

By the way, what do you make of these quotes from Jesus:

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

and

John 3:17-18 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

Did Jesus say this? Did he say it, but was wrong? Were these passages added to the manuscript, or mistranslated?

It appears you still have that JW mentally. I opened my mind completely when I left the JW's

What do you mean when you say that you opened your mind completely? Completely? Is there any aspect of what people claim as truth that you have closed your mind to? Thinking about it I guess I'd have to say you have closed your mind to the notion that the JW's are right, or that I am right.

Sorry about the questions, but before I can really look at your claim of truth I have to know what you are saying.

and what an incredibly liberating experience that has been for me. I hope the same for you.

Just a side question...if what you believe about Jesus is a false belief, are you truly liberated?

Or

If what I believe about Jesus is in fact the truth, and I have great hope, joy, fulfillment, contentment, and meaning in my life; am I really in bondage?

28

Religion vs. Christ

by *jeremiah* in

religion vs. the reality of a personal relationship with christ.

the following is what i have come to believe the through bible reading:.

religion: can have outward forms that bring us into bondage to those forms.

stark

What I was saying is that you cannot rely on second hand accounts of what people said because you could not be verbatim and that is important.

So are you saying eyewitness accounts of any event should not be admissible in a court of law? That's what you have in much of the New Testament.

If I were to talk for 5 minutes and you wrote down what I said after I was finished the meaning would change and if you wrote it down years later as was done with the bible well it would not even be close to what was meant.

So for example where John, in John 14:6, quotes Jesus as saying "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Your saying that probably Jesus never said anything even close to that? You should go online and check out the rules for historical accuracy.

By the way instead of me writing down what you said and me getting it wrong, what if you spent 3 years with me and taught me what you said...would there be a better chance of me getting it right?

I dont care about what happened 2000 years ago I am in the present day working with facts, science and technology looking at the future, not the past.

Your future is what I'm concerned about.

The bible clearly states many times that the world is following Satan thinking they are following God and the state of the planet clearly demonstrates that to be the case.

Many times? Name 3 times

The Christians of the U.S. manufacture and distribute 45% of the worlds military weapons and create at least 25% of the environmental destruction.

Have you personally experienced your "fact" that those who Have made Jesus Christ Lord of their life, and believe in their heart that he was raised from the dead, and who live in the U.S. personally manufacture and distribute 45% of the worlds military weapons, or did you get that from someone else. If you got it second hand are you ready to apply the rule you mentioned earlier in your post, I quote:

"What I was saying is that you cannot rely on second hand accounts of what people said because you could not be verbatim and that is important."

Or is that rule only for the Bible?

Thats a long way from you will learn war no more, and waste not want not etc..

Now is that a quote from the Bible?

8

Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise?&!%

by ukescott in

hi, i am ex-mo (ex-mormon) pretty new to this forum.

i need your help.. yesterday i engaged in a debate with a couple of korean jw's over "spirit" and "soul".. they argued that spirit is "lifeforce" like electricity that runs a computer and so when we die, we no longer exist in any shape and form.. so i asked them how they would interpret what jesus said to one of the bad guys on the cross "verily i say unto thee to day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (kjv).

this implies that a spirit continues to exist after death.. then they argued that the phrase has to be read in the following way.. "verily i say unto thee today, shall thou be with me in pradise" (nwt).

stark

In Matthew 22:32 Jesus quotes God "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Hs is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Jesus seemed convinced that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob still existed in some shape or form.

38

A Dummies Discussion on God, the Universe and Everything.

by nicolaou in

thought i'd try a different approach to the big questions but it'll probably descend into the usual disagreements.

still, no harm in trying .

.. the rules:.

stark

nico, good questions, now as for God coming into existence...He didn't. He always was. Now if you think about it you've got to come to the conclusion that if something exists now then something has always existed. Or better yet, something has to be eternal or there would be nothing.

One of the axioms of logic is that out of nothing-- nothing comes. Some have offered self creation, but that is illogical and impossible, because to create yourself you would have to exist before you existed...see the problem? So something has to have the power of being contained within itself.

Some, at this point, will say that everything in this universe leaked over from another universe, but that still assumes creation from something, and it doesn't answer the eternality question, it just moves it to another universe where we have to ask, how did that universe get there...well from another universe, which asks...then where did that universe come from...before you know it we have an infinite regression. This brings me back to my point; something has to be eternal.

I say all this to answer the very first part of your post where you said: "Claiming that he is 'eternal' is not an argument, just an assertion and an unsupportable one at that." I'm not claiming a "He" yet, I just want to see if you can accept an eternal something.

Remember, philosophically there are only three options to explain reality: 1. The universe is self--existent and eternal 2. The universe was created by something that was self--existent and eternal. 3. The universe is self--created.

How many words is that...did I go over? Nope 280