Posts by AllTimeJeff

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

AllTimeJeff

Hi there djeggnog

What was my point exactly, if you don't mind sharing with me what your thoughts are?

If you don't know your own point, I will kindly bow out and let you figure it out.

Please tell me what you mean by this. I don't feel like guessing [wrong].

In that, after you and the mods have sufficiently chastised the (well meaning) posters here who put copyrighted material on this website (and may I say, I am glad you are here to police the copyrights of the WTBTS) you have used the opportunity to preach about JW's.... to former JW's... who are the MOST aware of what JW's teach.

I do hope, my dear eggnog, that you are not laboring under the false impression that we forgot, or that we have are having some kind of current short term memory lapse.

If you don't have personal beliefs, you're dead, so I assume you have a set of them [beliefs, I mean]. For example, do you believe (as I do) that billions of people now living are going to be adversely affected at the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ from heaven? If so, are you -- like me -- warning folks about the coming revelation or what? I wouldn't mind "morphing" this thread into one about your personal beliefs @AllTimeJeff; otherwise, what would be the point?

Ah yes! I forgot how much I used this line of reasoning myself. Eggnog, I have learned something very important about personal beliefs. They are not public beliefs.

JW's are very much into trampling personal beliefs. This thread isn't really about anyone's personal beliefs , so I will digress. If I choose to share my personal beliefs here, they will no longer be personal. Although I am sure you will be relieved to know that I do indeed have personal beliefs, and thus, will live!

When you asked me your question about if I agree with you that billions will be adversely affected at the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ from heaven, my answer is simply, I don't agree. Why? Well, that is personal.

But as you say, what is the point? To simply share, then compare, then rate our personal beliefs in a public way? Suffice to say, you believe differently then I. And please know, I am well aware of what you believe. I used to teach it. A lot. But I have changed, and have discarded the belief system that the Governing Body teaches publically to something... more personal. And I am much happier for it.

31

It's OK Lurkers, Paranoid former JW's, and even you current JW's....

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

it's ok.... to post here on the internet, on jwn, and other jw related forums.. first of all, as we all know, the governing body doesn't provide a forum for jw's to "associate" with their brothers and sisters.

i'm just guessing, and i could be wrong, that its harder to control the flock when they have free access to information and each other.

damn electricity and the technology it brings..... anyway, i realize that for anyone leaving, or for practicing jw's, to post is a nervous thing.

AllTimeJeff

I should say, even if you don't post, just read, learn, and make up your own mind. To figure out that JW's don't have the truth based on the evidence is so overwhelming, that most people who are contacted by them slam the door in their face. And with good reason.

If they can turn down a cult, we can leave one. But it won't happen without real knowledge of the cult.

13

Why a Movement to Stop Jehovah's Witnesses Doesn't Make Sense

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

frequently, i see angry departing jw's want to stop someone from going through the experience they have had.

people dying because of their horrible and contradictory blood doctrines, the protection of child molesters in their midst, who wouldn't want to destroy all of that.. the reality though is pretty simple.

as an organization, jw's are far from the only ones who systematically practice the use and abuse of people for their own groups benefits.. can you get rid of one?

AllTimeJeff

Hey Dinah! Same here. That was a great first half. I don't remember much about the 2nd half. Probably trying to block that out.... ;)

40

You will no longer be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person.

by shepherd in

"if members of the congregation are known to.

have undue association with disfellowshipped.

or disassociated relatil'es who are not in the.

AllTimeJeff

This is not new. This is almost word for word from the old ks91, and the same questions about what spiritual association means continues. And again, its all up to the interpretation of the local body of elders, the CO, and the desk man responsible for that area who would get the letter....

31

It's OK Lurkers, Paranoid former JW's, and even you current JW's....

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

it's ok.... to post here on the internet, on jwn, and other jw related forums.. first of all, as we all know, the governing body doesn't provide a forum for jw's to "associate" with their brothers and sisters.

i'm just guessing, and i could be wrong, that its harder to control the flock when they have free access to information and each other.

damn electricity and the technology it brings..... anyway, i realize that for anyone leaving, or for practicing jw's, to post is a nervous thing.

AllTimeJeff

It's ok.... to post here on the internet, on JWN, and other JW related forums.

First of all, as we all know, the Governing Body doesn't provide a forum for JW's to "associate" with their brothers and sisters. I'm just guessing, and I could be wrong, that its harder to control the flock when they have free access to information and each other. Damn electricity and the technology it brings....

Anyway, I realize that for anyone leaving, or for practicing JW's, to post is a nervous thing. Because it is so frowned upon. The flock is "encouraged" to not be on the internet at all, associating with people they don't know. Even though the orders come from a Governing Body that they don't know either. Oh, the irony.

I remember when I first left, wondering thanks to the indoctrination I had received if somehow I was being monitored. I wasn't. As long as I wasn't posting copyrighted information, it is my opinion that they were happy I wasn't sharing what I knew about them within a congregation, where I might do the most damage to their indoctrination efforts. Considering the fact that I made the decision to leave and not share what I knew with others, the GB was happy to let me go. My exit, and others like me, were and continue to be an accepted cost of doing business. As is the accepted fact that former JW's will continue to talk about their experiences upon their exits. Yes, accepted. They are aware of it, know they can do nothing about it, and don't really sweat it.

Their's is a strategic plan to fight this battle of mis-information and propaganda in the field where they feel it does the most good: At KH meetings and WT publications that serve to demonize the internet and scare their flocks from even listenting to anyone with a negative word about their little cult.

So don't worry. Post away. Just don't put copyrighted stuff of their's on the internet, and you will be fine. After all, we may be invited to take life's water free, but it costs a helluva lot in lawyers fees to re-post WT literature on the internet.

However, it is free to share what we know, and it's ok to do so. They won't chase you. In fact, YOU will have made progress to the extent that you no longer let the fear that the GB has instilled in you stopping you from moving forward and moving on.

So whether it's posting, or just reading here on JWN, or www.freeminds.org , don't let fear or propaganda stop you from learning about JW's. Just like JW's want to get others to learn about the real origins of their faith, many like me would like you to learn about the real origins of yours. It's only fair that you do.

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

AllTimeJeff

djeggnog, if I might be allowed to weigh in, I think you have made your point. You of all people (I hope) can understand the emotion that comes from former JW's.

Now that you have made your point, and the moderators agree with your statements, I fail to see the utility in morphing this thread into, what appears to be an attempt at defending your personal belief system.

I mean, I bet you have personal beliefs, and for that, congrats! Carry on.

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

AllTimeJeff

VM44

The reason for the shredding party has nothing to do with anything super salicious in the material. It has everything to do with the paranoia of the leadership. It's about control. It's about obedience.

All of it demonstrates why JW's are a cult.

13

Why a Movement to Stop Jehovah's Witnesses Doesn't Make Sense

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

frequently, i see angry departing jw's want to stop someone from going through the experience they have had.

people dying because of their horrible and contradictory blood doctrines, the protection of child molesters in their midst, who wouldn't want to destroy all of that.. the reality though is pretty simple.

as an organization, jw's are far from the only ones who systematically practice the use and abuse of people for their own groups benefits.. can you get rid of one?

AllTimeJeff

Frequently, I see angry departing JW's want to stop someone from going through the experience they have had. People dying because of their horrible and contradictory blood doctrines, the protection of child molesters in their midst, who wouldn't want to destroy all of that.

The reality though is pretty simple. As an organization, JW's are far from the only ones who systematically practice the use and abuse of people for their own groups benefits.

Can you get rid of one? Can you get rid of all? No.

At some point, the real "movement" is when an individual wakes up and realizes that they are indeed, an individual. The only movement is for people to think for themselves and discover themselves, and then do what they must.

At what point does it start and stop? Do we go after political parties? Your company that you work for? The risks of joining any group, organization, or movement, cult or not, is the risk of losing yourself to the identity of the group.

Sadly, there are many weak minded people who let that happen. Most actually like it. They are the ones who stay.

The decline of JW's was/is inevitable. For what this is worth, other then the influence of a small few (Ray Franz especially), the leadership does it to themselves. In the end truth, real truth, wins out. The GB has lied, and continues to lie. They can't cover their tracks now. In their infinite wisdom, (sarcasm there) they put out tens of thousands of CD-Roms with their own lies. Anyone can get that information.

They do it to themselves, because this group was founded on lies, grew on lies, and must now suck their own carbon dioxide with their last staggering breaths.

25

Annointed Elder Publicly Reproved

by drewcoul in

i recently found out that the former po from my old congregation who was annointed for many years was reproved.

his wife who was and is a faithful witness divorced him.

a person close to me phoned her to see how she is doing.

AllTimeJeff

Technically, it shouldn't affect his standing. Of course, "new light" could happen, and then, all bets are off.

217

DMCA Complaint from The WatchTower for links to KS-10 'Shepherding' book

by Simon in

yes, that's right, they really do not like people being able to read that book so they wanted links to it removed (it appears they have also been going after the hosts of the content itself as well).. unfortunately, i had to removed the links (which were dead anyway when i checked) and i'd ask that people don't re-post them (sorry).

i'm sure there are lots of alternative ways for those with the information to get it to those who need it.. here are the discussions on the book:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

AllTimeJeff

Do the Gilead grads have a special manual or handbook like the Elder's have? Or is just the regular publications?

No manual is given at Gilead. You get a syllabus of sorts and a huge 3 ring binder filled with 5 months of courses and study materials to help you prepare. Interestingly, there is a shredding party toward the end of each Gilead class, because they don't want that getting out. If I had my head right, I would have scanned every damn page. Not that there was anything esp sexy or exciting about the Gilead cirriculum, its just that it shows how weird and out of touch, how little they really care, that is revealed.

There is a manual that is given out for missionary's. I have a scanned copy of that, but, I won't post it due to copyright laws. I have occasionally quoted from it here, but again, its just a little booklet full of nonsense. Nothing damning in it other then the sheer idiodicy of it. Normal people would look at a person who took the contents of that booklet as crazy people. And they would be right.....