Posts by AllTimeJeff

12

Misc Ramblings on Spirituality, Faith, God, and Religion, (probably in that order)

by AllTimeJeff in

as usual, and should be expected, this forum is going to be a catch all for a variety of different opinions on religion., faith, god, and spirituality.

and of course, this can tick certain people off.

i have had help on the way to my journey.

AllTimeJeff

Thanks Palm and Wobble. It is nice to come back. I wish I could take life less seriously then I do sometimes, but that is my own 'cross' to bear. :)

12

Misc Ramblings on Spirituality, Faith, God, and Religion, (probably in that order)

by AllTimeJeff in

as usual, and should be expected, this forum is going to be a catch all for a variety of different opinions on religion., faith, god, and spirituality.

and of course, this can tick certain people off.

i have had help on the way to my journey.

AllTimeJeff

jay88, I don't think that Peck argue's for these 4 stages specifically. They are general guidelines. It is necesarry to quantify a behavior or point of view to have a discussion.

But his point is that dogmatism is a less mature behavior and outlook then being honest and saying as stage 3 atheists/agnostics do, that there is no god (at least as dogmatic stage 2's describe god), and that the most mature point of view is a stage 4, one that loves and accepts all, and is honest enough to at least admit to the utility of love and spirituality in mankind generally.

When I see someone arguing for a god that has been absent 2000 years yet continue to insist that their view is correct, that is immature. Period. When I see another argue for the same god, but in the context of what that god does for them personally, I think that is a more mature outlook. Same god, different person describing him.

12

Misc Ramblings on Spirituality, Faith, God, and Religion, (probably in that order)

by AllTimeJeff in

as usual, and should be expected, this forum is going to be a catch all for a variety of different opinions on religion., faith, god, and spirituality.

and of course, this can tick certain people off.

i have had help on the way to my journey.

AllTimeJeff

I think that arguements are needed and inevitable. I have my own views that are important to me. Don't get me wrong, the 13 year old in me loves to argue, and I root for certain posters against some here I consider to be self righteous, etc.

If all you do though IS argue, and that is where you are stuck at, that is worrisome. That is what JW's do. They are stuck, a one trick pony incapably of introspection, and they breed that thought process into everyone.

I have no problems with debates, as long as everyone is moving forward. I really do believe though that as a planet, we have to get off this idea that there is an absolute truth. There isn't. There is only our truth and purpose, and to me, that is at the core of personal spirituality.

The ironic thing is that posters here like godrulz would absolutely be gaga for Allah if he were born in the middle east. It's the accident of where we are born that serves to inform us of our god traditions. From there, what and how we argue only serves to tell on us, not god.

12

Misc Ramblings on Spirituality, Faith, God, and Religion, (probably in that order)

by AllTimeJeff in

as usual, and should be expected, this forum is going to be a catch all for a variety of different opinions on religion., faith, god, and spirituality.

and of course, this can tick certain people off.

i have had help on the way to my journey.

AllTimeJeff

As usual, and should be expected, this forum is going to be a catch all for a variety of different opinions on religion., faith, god, and spirituality. How can it not be? And of course, this can tick certain people off.

I have had help on the way to my journey. To me, that word really is the key to understanding:

Journey.

A friend once referred me to this essay, which I will share here, The Four Stages of Spiritual Growth I have shared it here in this forum before, and I share it again as a statement that I think accurately describes most people and their journey.

The debates on JWN are really intersections without stop signs or traffic signals. We crash bump into each other on our journey, sometimes taking great pains and joy to back up and try to run each over repeatedly. Other times, some of us see the intersection, realize that others are crossing.... Then we leave here, on our spiritual journey (usually) on our path away from Jehovahs Witnesses to where ever we think we are going.

Some of us argue for our positions. Other's discovering they have none (or can't see a position they agree with) are happy to simply argue against another's position. But I digress....

The fact is, we all need to have and feel purpose in life. Leaving JW's is about the only thing many of us have in common.

Which is why this post isn't about my thought's about Spirituallity, Faith, God, and Religion. I am on a journey. Some days I don't give a crap. There are other time's where I aim and fire at the intersection, just daring someone for a fight. Those aren't great days for me, to be honest. Thankfully, I don't think I do that too much anymore.

Well ok, just a couple of thoughts.

Much respect to the atheists and agnostics for your honesty.

Much respect to people of faith and those who endeavor to be "spiritual", no matter how you define that for yourself, and show your spirituality by loving others (not necesarrily agreeing, just accepting and loving)

Very little respect to those solidly stuck in 'Stage 2' (see the link above) who insist on throwing their immature religous tantrums. You don't tell on god, nor do you or can you represent god. All you are representing is where you are, and you are in a very immature, intolerant, judgemental place.

Nevertheless, we all can (and very likely will) change. So regardless of where you are, if you insist on throwing yourself headlong into an intersection hoping to hit someone heading in a different direction, or are careful, or just want to sit on the sideline, I wish you success on your journey. Consider loving a little more, judging a little less, and acknowledge that you do not live in a bubble, but on a planet filled with over 7 BILLION people who think and believe way differently then you do, but would still for the most part really like to be chill with you anyway.

Now back to your regularly scheduled demolition derby.

328

Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

by snowbird in

http://www.str.org/site/news2?page=newsarticle&id=5725.

i fought against this with all my wts-trained power, but truth prevailed.. any way you cut it, it comes out the same.. peace and strength in your search.. sylvia.

AllTimeJeff

First of all, because belief's ARE personal, one's relationship with GOD is too, as well as one's understanding.

My name, depending on your relationship with me, is Son, Jeff, Jeffrey, Mr ATJ, and "effin @$$hole".

Surely, if a person believes in God, that it is the same thing.

I don't speak against Godrulz personal views on the matter, but rather, in his insistence that his view is the only one that could be correct.

But you all continue to argue about this. Hell, I am sure you all know that this is the very first time the topic has been broached on the internet. ;)

27

How many illogical JW beliefs did you choke down for years?

by james_woods in

this was inspired by that thread marvin did on the "ectoplasm".. in something of a confession - i actually gave that hour public talk on this subject.

and it was very popular with the jws.. i did not believe a word of it - even at the time.

did not believe in the "demons" either - with or without the slime.. it got me to thinking - how much of this did a small back room of your mind reject?

AllTimeJeff

The ones that most made go "hmmm" involved demon posession. Ironically, most elders spend their time dissuading publishers that they have a demon because their are scared.

The other that I really never believed was that 7 billion people were going to be destroyed at Armageddon.

64

What's Your Objection?

by 1975 in

when i come to this forum and read the topics of the day, it disturbs me that some always have objections and comments that are negative.

what source of encouragement is there when one breaks down the story of others?

what's your personal gain, what's the satisfaction?

AllTimeJeff

When I come to this forum and read the topics of the day, it disturbs me that some always have objections and comments that are negative.

It disturbs me that some always are able to find the negative comments and objections too. Bummer. Well, lets face it, this is a forum about JW's and former JW's, not about former lottery winners and winners of American Idol.

What source of encouragement is there when one breaks down the story of others? What's your personal gain, what's the satisfaction?

Well, it is encouraging to know that you aren't alone. The satisfaction is, I may be "here", but if I stay at it and be me and grow, I could be "there". Sometimes, you need people to understand where you have been so you can get to where you are heading.

? Do you want others to feel the way YOU feel?

No. That would be impossible. I want everyone to feel the way they feel, and to get to know and love the most important person in the universe, themself.

By the way, how do you feel?

Totally awesome. Great. I have an itch that I actually CAN scratch.

Explain to me, what's the objection in being kind and understanding to others free speech and thought?

Depends on whatever the speech is. I am a pragmatic, and this is the internet. I don't like to see people bleed their pain, and yeah, I think it's counter productive. What I try to do is give a nice cyber hug instead of judge from a distance.

46

just created a site www.jwfacts.com

by jwfacts in

i just put together a site that tries to logically show the witnesses are not the true religion.

just wondering how to get the information out to people that most need it.

also any ideas on how to get the site found by search engines.

AllTimeJeff

JWfacts.com is a great site, reasonable in it's approach, and authoratative in it's facts.

123

An Open letter to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses (Elders/ Ex-Elders)

by stuckinamovement in

jw
friends

if you are an elder or an ex-elder please add a comment.

i hope that the governing body will see this.

it is too bad it has to be on an anonymous forum.

AllTimeJeff

ATJeff's Resignation Letter

I got this to one side of one page. Of all the things I am most proud of, it's this. It was personal and factual. I know who the brothers are who would read this. I sure hope that it affected them.

There is no one who works in the Service Dept who dies ignorant of all the JW hypocrisy and lies.

75

Unrest in the Governing Body

by JWFreak in

jw
friends

one of the many questions that i am asked is what are the current gb members like, who are the hardliners and who are more moderate.. because of my previous job, at a european bethel, i had dealings with most of them with the exception of sam herd.. these are my observations of my conversations with them and how others who had dealings with them.. other ex bethelites may have contrary views to mine, but i would be surprised.. i had spent a lot of time with splane, lett and morris.

hardliners.

david splane, without doubt the one who commands the most respect and attention.

AllTimeJeff

Just some thoughts I have from my experience with GB 2.0

First off, the GB has always been Elder Body Ground Zero. Read CoC and any elder will instantly recognize that this group is the same as most elder bodies; With loud and quiet members of varying political savviness.

Also, just a general rule of thumb that I learned for myself: It's not the elder/GB who is the loudest you have to worry about. At least you know what they think It's the one who keeps to himself that is nice to everyone, quieter in his ways, that is the really dangerous one. Thus, Morris and Loesch are not the ones you have to worry about. They don't know any better then to be loud. Having said that Morris being in charge of the Service Dept is sort of like a demented Jaracz running around.

It seems to be the general consensus that Splane has become the most influential. I don't know if it's true, but you have to assume that the most politically astute would take that role. Splane would fit that bill.

Loesch is not taken seriously I think, which is why he speaks out more. He will always hate american football, and it will never be banned.

Lett is trouble. That rubber face is a facade.

Herd is along for the ride. If I am not mistaken, he was a big fan of Jack Barr. He was along for the ride too.

Pierce just wants to do "elder/GB" stuff. I don't think he cares as much about making policy or new prophecies as he is enforcing them.

Geoff Jackson uses humor to mask an agenda in my opinion. With him, we will know about whatever he is up to when it happens. He and Mark Noumair were in the same congregation in Patterson, where Mark served as PO c. 2005. They were/are tight.

There will be more GB members at some point. You can be assurred that additions to GB 2.1 will be expert @$$ kissers.