AllTimeJeff

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Posts by AllTimeJeff

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  44

  Rick Fearon has been totally exposed!

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why would he post a pic of byron brown, the mayor of buffalo, ny in this thread, http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/215638/1/former-jw-money-counter-at-district-conventions-tells-all .

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  http://www.buffalospreemagazine.com/archives/2006_04/0406byronbrown.html.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Wow. This proves it! I screen shot saved it.

  This is total crap!!!
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  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Hi there leavingWT.

  My question is this: Are you a theist?

  No. I think a deist is more accurate in describing my views on higher powers. I don't believe that a specific god, born of a specific religious dogma, is my god.

  In that sense, I don't have a god. I do believe that a higher power exists. I wouldn't argue for my position though. It is my intuition, and if someone were to say I was wrong, I would probably agree to the point that I couldn't prove what I feel (not believe) at all.

  My belief that a higher power exists helps me to understand spirituality in myself and others. For me, that is it's primary benefit.
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  29

  Judge Rutherford steps off a curb, is struck by a truck and dies.....

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  pastor charles taze russell died on a train outside pampas texas in october of 1916.. shortly afterward a phonecall was placed to j.f.rutherford that "the old man is dead.".

  as we all know, rutherford wasted no time.

  he engineered a series of moves that placed himself at the helm of a publishing company.

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  AllTimeJeff

  For those of us born in's, it very likely means that we would not have been born.
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  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

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  AllTimeJeff

  As I have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully IS an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.

  Let me put out there that I am NOT an atheist, nor an agnostic. Frankly, I respect your right to believe that god is a trinity. That he is Jesus. Allah. Diana Ross or Dolly Parton. Have at it.

  That isn't harmful or divisive.

  Where we ALL go wrong though is what the theological premise to discussions on the nature of god means in practical terms.

  To argue the nature of god is to argue the unseen. YOUR impressions of god are finitely your own. Theological arguments for sure exist, and some are better than others.

  Jehovah's Witnesses for example TOTALLY mis-represent the Trinity. They purposfully lie about the Trinity. There are many theological arguments on the Trinity that in no way match the one way street JW's would argue the Trinity. No wonder it insults Trinitarians, regardless of how superior or inferior their arguments might be.

  But is that the point? Does the stronger theological argument better the stronger reality?

  Let's use the Trinity as one example. Let's take a Trinitarian apologist of note, like Sulla (whom you can look up all of Sulla's posts and see the superior theological arguments he uses to support the trinity). If Sulla's theology is superior, what does that mean? What's next?

  Do I have to worship Jesus? Do I have to accept that all good people go to heaven, and the bad go to hell? Do I have to worship with a particular denomination? Will that alienate or unite me with others who may differ in belief?

  What's the point of having a "superior" theology on the matter of the nature of god if the reality of that belief doesn't positively effect our life now?

  Here is where I have a problem, not just with the Trinity, but with Christianity. I don't worship Jesus, although I consider myself a disciple in the sense that I view him often as a "great teacher".

  However, do I view Jesus as God? No. So there goes your trinity.

  You see, Jesus was just a man, and there is no EVIDENCE (that's spelled E V I D E N C E) that Jesus is god. There is barely any evidence outside of the bible that a man named Jesus even existed. (although it is there for each person to decide)

  In addition, I honestly, really do respect anyone's right to worship Jesus or think of him as part of a Trinity. We will certainly disagree, but maybe we would be better off not to talk about it too much.

  Honestly, who gives a shit if you have a superior, theological argument on the existence of someone whom I consider to be a fictional character as god, though a real person as a man.

  The reality that we all have to deal with in real life is awesome, and for those leaving JW's, it can be esp daunting. When I first left, I was VERY angry. Though I WANTED to be an atheist, deep down, I never was. I was just an angry agnostic for a time.

  My beliefs though don't, and more importantly, SHOULDN'T matter to you.

  Neither should any self righteous Trinitarians who insist that "superior" arguments exist for the Trinity, though they consistently fail to point to even one argument of note.

  To argue theology is a nice hobby. But on an internet board devoted to all things JW, I hope not too much offense is taken when exiting JW's point out that, once again, the emperor truly is not wearing any clothes.
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  5

  The 9/11 Kevin Cosgrove Tape

  by sizemik in

  1. social
  2. current

  warning .

  this is pretty hearbreaking .

  .. regular youtube visitors will have heard this tape already .

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  AllTimeJeff

  I saw this for the first time last week. The man was in an absolute panic. The very end juxtaposed against the video is just sad.
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  13

  "That's what Armageddon will look like."

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i couldn't put the words back in my mouth.. that is what i said, without premeditation, to our car group on tuesday, september 11, 2001.. on that day, as an elder, i was out in fs.

  in dealing with the shock of what we saw and were listening to on the radio (like good little pioneers, we didn't stop our day, we used this as an opportunity to preach...) some of us were showing the bits of humanity that the borg hadn't completely stolen from us, myself included.. we got an unusual amount of people who talked with us that day.

  opinions as you can imagine varied.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Just want to add my "hear hear" to the comments that JW's are trained to view tragedies as events to be happy about. "Keep in expectation..."

  When you have been lied to and disappointed so much as the rank and file of JW's have, it's little wonder that they get all excited about tragedy. Anything remotely resembling the great tribulation "validates" all they have invested in the bullshit of the Governing Body.
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  95

  Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

  because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

  awesome!

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  AllTimeJeff

  Dear AllTimeJeff, I am a careful student of your superiority and condescension. I assure you, it has naught to do with the form in which a divinity is conceived to exist, or even whether or not it exists. I follow your online career assiduously, and eagerly look forward to future installments.

  Dear BTS,

  Get a hobby. I'm not impressed.
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  35

  Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - The Day My JW Faith Began to Die (finally)

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was late june of 2001 that i was appointed as an elder at the amazingly seasoned age of 26. a true lifelong goal had been achieved.

  i had to be appointed an elder before 30. already, peers were starting to be appointed.

  i had to make it.

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  AllTimeJeff

  I have a feeling that 9/11 fundamentally changed most JW's in the United States and in western countries more then the GB can even comprehend.

  Well, at least the ones who aren't damaged enough to be honest, open their heart.

  This is ultimately what I meant, the whole point of this thread. There are JW's who have yet to leave, but are stuck in right now. They haven't had their moment of clarity yet. But deep down, they see, they feel. They just need that one moment where their head and their heart finally meet up. (again).
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  95

  Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

  because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

  awesome!

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  AllTimeJeff

  That was very sloppy thinking, and it is good that you finally came around to realizing your lack of logic and coherence, although admittedly it took far too long from a superior intellect molded and honed in the Watchtower's top school. But perhaps the humbling experience won't be a total waste of your time or ours, since I found it enlightening myself.

  BTS, if you found it enlightening, then clearly, I aimed too low. I hope that my humbling experience will be the impetus you need to go from humble servant of Christ to self righteous servant of Christ. Oh wait... never mind on that one.

  If you cared to be the least bit charitable, then you will see several comments herin where I clearly aimed my comments at Sulla and not Trinitarians in general. I would have happily included you in my disdain had you involved yourself earlier.

  Needless to say, you took my attempt at honesty here and have tried to turn it into one more churlish attempt in showing your superiority. So please let me say that the following observation about you has nothing to do with your belief in the Trinity; You are a jackass.

  The fact that you, Sulla and others feel superior in believing the Trinity is quite alright with me though. Have fun!
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  35

  Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - The Day My JW Faith Began to Die (finally)

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was late june of 2001 that i was appointed as an elder at the amazingly seasoned age of 26. a true lifelong goal had been achieved.

  i had to be appointed an elder before 30. already, peers were starting to be appointed.

  i had to make it.

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  AllTimeJeff

  It was late June of 2001 that I was appointed as an elder at the amazingly seasoned age of 26. A true lifelong goal had been achieved. I HAD to be appointed an elder before 30. Already, peers were starting to be appointed. I had to make it. How was I going to make it to my goal of being a CO (which my ex finally switched over to missionary) if I wasn't an elder in my mid 20's? So many hot shot elders were. How could they pass me up.

  Be careful what you wish for....

  Well, I have to say that the first two months were the best. July and August of 2011. The congregation was doing great, and me along with another young elder from MTS were getting some credit. I was the School Overseer and got to be up in front of everyone every week. I even got to be on my first judicial committee that August, and we got to disfellowship someone! Oh what fun!

  See, being an elder at that age can only ruin a man. While I was starting to accumulate a lot of life experience in a short amount of time, I was still run by ego. I did want to help people, that's true. But I was also looking forward to the credit I would get. (and was getting).

  That Tuesday on 9/11, I woke up and got ready for service with the ex, just like I normally did. Tuesday was not my usual day to take the lead in FS, but the elder who did for 20 years was deleted as an elder the same day I was appointed. Needless to say, he was a bit grumpy. I didn't care. I secretly relished the fact that I got to take over his field service group that day, esp since he was there every Tuesday, listening to me.

  Of course, I was a pioneer in my 20's which meant I was only on time for meetings for FS when I was assigned to take the group out. So being newly appointed, I made sure I was early. It was a 10 minute drive to the KH, and when the ex and I left, I turned it on to sports talk radio. As we pulled up to the KH, the sportscast was going to the top of the 9:00 hour, when the radio host said "We are getting reports of a plane hitting the World Trade Center." Wow! Must have been an accident. Back inside the KH I went to conduct the meeting....

  After the car groups were made, we got a call from our MTS elder that the WTC had been hit twice. I didn't understand, but we went to his house to take a bathroom break and to see what happened....

  WOW!

  I can hardly describe the feeling. The weather where we were in Michigan was identical. A clear cool day. Manhattan looked like an absolute disaster. By the time we got to the elders house, the buildings hadn't fallen. As soon as we left, we learned that they did fall. We decided to go to the territory anyway, listening to the radio news.

  I woke up in a good, brain dead mood that day, which is the perfect speed for an elder. Another mindless day of driving around rural territory, knocking on doors, counting time... Great life.

  It was then that a sister said that she hoped not too many people died. I instinctively, almost callously said "That's what Armageddon will look like."

  I will never forget how I felt when I said that. Something clicked. It was my heart. My real heart, my feelings, that part of my brain that I turned off for my disfellowshipped brother's suicide. Finally, my heart woke up. It was telling me something. I know now what it was telling me.

  "You don't believe this."

  It's easy for me now 10 years later to see what happened to me as I look back. Before 9/11, I never allowed myself to critically examine anything about what I said I believed. Even in the face of losing my family, I was way too invested in the social aspect of being a young hot shot elder and minsterial servant. I was a pioneer with big goals and aspirations and couldn't be bothered to really see if i believed it. I had a goal, a purpose in life.

  I also realize I was used by JW's. They took a young man with high ambition and molded me in their own fashion.

  But now, on 9/11, I just couldn't ignore what was going on. Or what I said.

  This is what Armageddon will look like.

  Do I really believe this?

  In all honesty, some in our car group, my ex included, made "witty" comments looking forward to the destruction of everyone. It's standard fare, you joke and kid. Today though, we meant it. There it was, a video of Armageddon.

  After FS, I had to go to put my talents toward cleaning offices and banks. At each location, I turned on and watched the news. I watched the replays for days after. There it was, the two buildings of the WTC, being hit in spectacular fashion by terrorists who hijacked jets. Falling and killing thousands. Over and over again I watched. I let it affect me.

  For months after that, I suppressed the question of "Did I really believe what I taught?" It was always there. How could I leave though? I had committed my entire young life to JW's? Hell, I ignored my drug addicted brother in his time of need! Shit! I can't be wrong! I can't deal with this now....

  In the months after 9/11, I was introduced as an elder to pedophiles all over the damn place, mentally ill publishers who tried to murder their family and kill themselves, politics among congregation and circuit elders. In short, the honeymoon was over.

  My focus changed forever after 9/11. No longer could I ignore the fact that lives were truly being affected by the teachings of JW's. What part was I playing as an elder?

  I lost that super zeal I had, and replaced it with patience and a more accepting attitude. Interestingly, this was interpreted by the elders in my congregation and circuit as a quick maturing on my part, so I actually got more "privileges" then I would have otherwise had I not been so affected by the events of 9/11.

  What happened on 9/11/01 was horrific. At the time, I was a young starry eyed hot shot cult member, who aspired to be a leader in that cult. I was forced to look around and be honest with myself for the first time ever. It would take another 5 years after when I was at Gilead before that final (and at the time, awful) epiphany happened, and I realized I was around a bunch of manipulative crap. I was trapped in a lie. Thankfully, I got out. It started for me on 9/11........

  I can't change the past, where I came from and what I did, only my future, only tomorrow really. Life isn't cheap, although some people view it that way. But life is short.

  This weekend, I will do something on the 10th anniversary of the attacks that I never got to do the day it happened; mourn and remember.

  Over 3,000 people died that day, with all their friends and families scarred forever. But for the survivors and family members who displayed their humanity, along with their mourning and grief, they unwittingly gave me a gift, and taught me a lesson that I will never forget. It was an opportunity once and for all to be honest, to open my heart, and to join the human race. I thank and remember them for that.