Posts by AllTimeJeff

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

But I have discovered that Jeff almost always writes exactly the opposite of what he means. He writes that it is pointless to debate the Trinity, and then insists that I offer up reasons for believing the Trinity.

Sulla, you are odd. After having acknowledged on one thread that I started that I did indeed debate the Trinity when I said it was a waste of time, you have discovered whatever you feel supports your world view, nothing more.

Your manner of debate is to not say anything at all.

He writes that he doesn't care if anybody else believes the Trinity, and then calls me out by name to criticize me for being a self-righteous Trinitarian.

Yes. Because you are self righteous, not because you are a Trinitarian. You are soooo close to figuing that one out.

Or, was it I who has begun several threads on the topic?

Again, you are so close here. You have said nothing. That was my whole point, and why I chose to argue with you on the Trinity on my previous thread. (of course, you, like anyone else on this board, can see what threads I have started here. Nice try though....)

You merely claim that there are superior ways to define and explain the Trinity, yet fail to offer even one. You condescendingly say that I and others reject the Trinity based on inferior information, or that I am limited by my JW background. What you say is offensive and elevates yourself, and just in case you're curious, that is why I believe you to be self righteous and superior acting.

It's as if you are hoping to make a point by implying their are better ways to understand the Trinity, that the rest of us haven't figured out whatever you claim to have figured out, all the while dodging and avoiding having to explain whatever it is that makes your take on the Trinity better/superior/(whatever) to others.

The following I am going to put in bold for you.

I have no qualms with your right to believe the Trinity Sulla.

I call you out (still, nothing has changed here) for saying you have a superior argument on the trinity, and not presenting it.

I truly hope that your faith makes you better person.

I think your next goal for your faith would be to develop a little bit of humility.

I absolutely contradict whatever statement that you would put out there that your god and your take on god (trinity or otherwise) is the one and only way to worship.

I have no desire to in general to spend a lot of time debating the Trinity with you per se Sulla. What motivated me to confront you is the appearance you gave (in my view) that you have the absolute truth. That isn't correct. I don't think that debating the trinity in that context with you is a waste of time, because the point isn't your personal belief (i.e. what is good for you) but your supposition that your personal belief is THE one. (i.e. the trinity is THE truth for everyone)

I got one more for you, but that will be my next comment.....

55

Former JW. money counter at district conventions tells all.

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

how much money flows into the watchtower coffers at their annual fund raiser the district convention?.

former witness lurene stanley working along with her high ranking jw.

husband had the opportunity to see what goes on in the back room at disrtict conventions.

AllTimeJeff

I really want to do my best to be empathetic. I really do.

Rick used to be a JW, and clearly was hurt. For that, he merits my empathy.

I first came across Rick's website as I was leaving JW's. My first thought was "This is a dis-service to those trying to expose JW's." Such a website can only attract the mentally ill.

Rick, when I look at your website, and your tactics specifically, I am reminded of why I never wanted my whole JW past to dominate my future. It would be so easy for me, who has lost my entire family, almost killed in Cameroon, to be VERY sensationalistic.

I highlight the difference between you and me, because I am not there yet. I still come here to hang out. I get pissed off occasionally. Still. But one thing I won't do is lie.

I realize you only answer to yourself. That is fine. I bet that you don't care what I or others here say.

Sadly, I bet you feed off our negative (and honest) feedback.

I have no expectation that you will listen. I don't say this other then to say, you are wrong, no matter how good intentioned you view yourself.

44

Rick Fearon has been totally exposed!

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

why would he post a pic of byron brown, the mayor of buffalo, ny in this thread, http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/215638/1/former-jw-money-counter-at-district-conventions-tells-all .

.

http://www.buffalospreemagazine.com/archives/2006_04/0406byronbrown.html.

AllTimeJeff

To clarify, all this proves is that Rick cannot be trusted to expose JW's.

It isn't that his desire to show that JW's are liars, in of itself is bad. What is bad is that in his view, the ends justify the means.

Both Rick Fearon and the Governing Body CLEARLY have one thing in common: They will twist, misuse, sensationalize, and even outright lie, so that they can advance their agenda.

THAT is what I mean that this is total crap.

44

Rick Fearon has been totally exposed!

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

why would he post a pic of byron brown, the mayor of buffalo, ny in this thread, http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/215638/1/former-jw-money-counter-at-district-conventions-tells-all .

.

http://www.buffalospreemagazine.com/archives/2006_04/0406byronbrown.html.

AllTimeJeff

Wow. This proves it! I screen shot saved it.

This is total crap!!!

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

Hi there leavingWT.

My question is this: Are you a theist?

No. I think a deist is more accurate in describing my views on higher powers. I don't believe that a specific god, born of a specific religious dogma, is my god.

In that sense, I don't have a god. I do believe that a higher power exists. I wouldn't argue for my position though. It is my intuition, and if someone were to say I was wrong, I would probably agree to the point that I couldn't prove what I feel (not believe) at all.

My belief that a higher power exists helps me to understand spirituality in myself and others. For me, that is it's primary benefit.

29

Judge Rutherford steps off a curb, is struck by a truck and dies.....

by Terry in

pastor charles taze russell died on a train outside pampas texas in october of 1916.. shortly afterward a phonecall was placed to j.f.rutherford that "the old man is dead.".

as we all know, rutherford wasted no time.

he engineered a series of moves that placed himself at the helm of a publishing company.

AllTimeJeff

For those of us born in's, it very likely means that we would not have been born.

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

As I have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully IS an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.

Let me put out there that I am NOT an atheist, nor an agnostic. Frankly, I respect your right to believe that god is a trinity. That he is Jesus. Allah. Diana Ross or Dolly Parton. Have at it.

That isn't harmful or divisive.

Where we ALL go wrong though is what the theological premise to discussions on the nature of god means in practical terms.

To argue the nature of god is to argue the unseen. YOUR impressions of god are finitely your own. Theological arguments for sure exist, and some are better than others.

Jehovah's Witnesses for example TOTALLY mis-represent the Trinity. They purposfully lie about the Trinity. There are many theological arguments on the Trinity that in no way match the one way street JW's would argue the Trinity. No wonder it insults Trinitarians, regardless of how superior or inferior their arguments might be.

But is that the point? Does the stronger theological argument better the stronger reality?

Let's use the Trinity as one example. Let's take a Trinitarian apologist of note, like Sulla (whom you can look up all of Sulla's posts and see the superior theological arguments he uses to support the trinity). If Sulla's theology is superior, what does that mean? What's next?

Do I have to worship Jesus? Do I have to accept that all good people go to heaven, and the bad go to hell? Do I have to worship with a particular denomination? Will that alienate or unite me with others who may differ in belief?

What's the point of having a "superior" theology on the matter of the nature of god if the reality of that belief doesn't positively effect our life now?

Here is where I have a problem, not just with the Trinity, but with Christianity. I don't worship Jesus, although I consider myself a disciple in the sense that I view him often as a "great teacher".

However, do I view Jesus as God? No. So there goes your trinity.

You see, Jesus was just a man, and there is no EVIDENCE (that's spelled E V I D E N C E) that Jesus is god. There is barely any evidence outside of the bible that a man named Jesus even existed. (although it is there for each person to decide)

In addition, I honestly, really do respect anyone's right to worship Jesus or think of him as part of a Trinity. We will certainly disagree, but maybe we would be better off not to talk about it too much.

Honestly, who gives a shit if you have a superior, theological argument on the existence of someone whom I consider to be a fictional character as god, though a real person as a man.

The reality that we all have to deal with in real life is awesome, and for those leaving JW's, it can be esp daunting. When I first left, I was VERY angry. Though I WANTED to be an atheist, deep down, I never was. I was just an angry agnostic for a time.

My beliefs though don't, and more importantly, SHOULDN'T matter to you.

Neither should any self righteous Trinitarians who insist that "superior" arguments exist for the Trinity, though they consistently fail to point to even one argument of note.

To argue theology is a nice hobby. But on an internet board devoted to all things JW, I hope not too much offense is taken when exiting JW's point out that, once again, the emperor truly is not wearing any clothes.

5

The 9/11 Kevin Cosgrove Tape

by sizemik in

warning .

this is pretty hearbreaking .

.. regular youtube visitors will have heard this tape already .

AllTimeJeff

I saw this for the first time last week. The man was in an absolute panic. The very end juxtaposed against the video is just sad.

13

"That's what Armageddon will look like."

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

i couldn't put the words back in my mouth.. that is what i said, without premeditation, to our car group on tuesday, september 11, 2001.. on that day, as an elder, i was out in fs.

in dealing with the shock of what we saw and were listening to on the radio (like good little pioneers, we didn't stop our day, we used this as an opportunity to preach...) some of us were showing the bits of humanity that the borg hadn't completely stolen from us, myself included.. we got an unusual amount of people who talked with us that day.

opinions as you can imagine varied.

AllTimeJeff

Just want to add my "hear hear" to the comments that JW's are trained to view tragedies as events to be happy about. "Keep in expectation..."

When you have been lied to and disappointed so much as the rank and file of JW's have, it's little wonder that they get all excited about tragedy. Anything remotely resembling the great tribulation "validates" all they have invested in the bullshit of the Governing Body.

95

Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

by AllTimeJeff in

this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

awesome!

AllTimeJeff

Dear AllTimeJeff, I am a careful student of your superiority and condescension. I assure you, it has naught to do with the form in which a divinity is conceived to exist, or even whether or not it exists. I follow your online career assiduously, and eagerly look forward to future installments.

Dear BTS,

Get a hobby. I'm not impressed.