Posts by AllTimeJeff

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

It is now tomorrow. ;)

Sulla, the problem with theology is that in it's purest form, it is nothing more then mental masturbation. I am really glad you get off on how much you think you know about your invisible god. It's your god, so it's your rules.

I believe that I am exhausting you because you seem very intent on making this conversation about me and my education, which you know little about. Do you know? You don't know me, nor do I care to defend where I come from. If I don't know what I am talking about, that will be plain. If you know what you are talking about, that will also be plain.

But you don't want to talk about a subject. And I am through defending myself to you, you pompous ass.

I would have a healthy debate with you on your superiority, which of necessity would also bring the Trinity into play, but you have acknowledged being unwilling to do that. So that is where we are.

It seems easier for you to attack me then to actually address some (any, one) of my points, but that is on you.

I absolutely disagree that Christianity is the true religion. There are many beneficial points to other religions in the world, and other views of spirituality.

I dont' want to insult other Trinitarians or Catholics by coming across as attacking their religion. If you and others respect Aquinas among others, then that is fine. Name dropping Catholic theologians who have been dead for hundreds of years means nothing.

One premise of my initial treatment, as noted in the theme, is that theology is not only very limited in value, it is actually very limiting. Instead of focusing on people, (like Jesus did) many who are interested in theology put their theological ideas ahead of people, putting it of higher value than the people that Jesus supposedly die for.

What is really nice about where I am spiritually is that I can actually take points of value from Jesus or Aquinas, and reject others. I am actually a very big fan of the gospels, esp where Jesus talks about practical matters.

I give you another famous bible philosopher, Paul, who consistently contradicted himself on the following verses in my view. But nevertheless, I agree with this following passage and put it to you Sulla for your consideration.

1 Corinthians 13:1-4 (New American Standard Bible)

1. If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. 4. Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant......

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

See you tomorrow Sulla. :)

95

Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

by AllTimeJeff in

this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

awesome!

AllTimeJeff

ATJ, in a highly condescending manner, is not surprised. He wipes off the daquari, invites Shamus to express himself further, then insults Canada. Which is tradition....

95

Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

by AllTimeJeff in

this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

awesome!

AllTimeJeff

Shamus, did you have a bad bannana milkshale?

95

Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

by AllTimeJeff in

this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

awesome!

AllTimeJeff

Yes, thank you for bringing that up. Again. Duly noted. Again.

95

Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

by AllTimeJeff in

this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

awesome!

AllTimeJeff

Thanks for sharing your opinion of me Sulla. Duly noted.

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

For anyone reading, I can say with equal passion that the Bible L Ron Hubbard is correct, that if you were just a little more educated, a little more sensitive, and just a little more smart, you would see things my way.

If you were to ask me for proof, or WHY I believe that, I could answer, or I could just try the disingenuous tactic of reframing the debate to discredit who is questioning me.

I could imply that YOU aren't smart enough to ask me anything. In fact, to explain the wonderful doctrine of the Trinity Scientology would be a waste of time, because in all likelihood, you aren't reflective, sensitive, or smart enough to get it anyway.

But trust me, you're wrong. I'm right.

Hey Sulla.... I'm your huckleberry.....

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

I'm not surprised that some ex-JWs, upon leaving an anti-Christian cult, remain dedicated anti-Christians. I would similarly suspect that, say, Branch Davidians who left that cult have remained outside of the Christian belief system they rejected before they joined that cult. Neither am I surprised that the unearned pride that so many JWs feel, as well as the inchoate hatred of Christianity, remains a driving force for some after they leave the JWs. There was, after all, a reason they joined the JWs in the first place and it ain't because they were the smartest, most reflective, most sensitive kids on the block.

I joined the Jehovah's Witnessees when my two JW parents had sex one night, caused my birth, and raised me to be a JW.

Were you ever a JW?

You really look down on former JW's. I base that on your comment that I quote above.

Does it really take superior education to worship god? Does God only like 'smart, more reflective, more sensitive' worshipers... like you? If so, I think that rules out your god and your version of god specifically right there. If it is an exclusive club, then your god, like you, is a superior, aloof, self righteous jack ass.

Sort of like Jehovah.

Of course, in my (very educated) view, the gods we espouse reflect more of who we are then who god actually is. Little wonder you chose a god just like you.

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

But I have discovered that Jeff almost always writes exactly the opposite of what he means. He writes that it is pointless to debate the Trinity, and then insists that I offer up reasons for believing the Trinity.

Sulla, you are odd. After having acknowledged on one thread that I started that I did indeed debate the Trinity when I said it was a waste of time, you have discovered whatever you feel supports your world view, nothing more.

Your manner of debate is to not say anything at all.

He writes that he doesn't care if anybody else believes the Trinity, and then calls me out by name to criticize me for being a self-righteous Trinitarian.

Yes. Because you are self righteous, not because you are a Trinitarian. You are soooo close to figuing that one out.

Or, was it I who has begun several threads on the topic?

Again, you are so close here. You have said nothing. That was my whole point, and why I chose to argue with you on the Trinity on my previous thread. (of course, you, like anyone else on this board, can see what threads I have started here. Nice try though....)

You merely claim that there are superior ways to define and explain the Trinity, yet fail to offer even one. You condescendingly say that I and others reject the Trinity based on inferior information, or that I am limited by my JW background. What you say is offensive and elevates yourself, and just in case you're curious, that is why I believe you to be self righteous and superior acting.

It's as if you are hoping to make a point by implying their are better ways to understand the Trinity, that the rest of us haven't figured out whatever you claim to have figured out, all the while dodging and avoiding having to explain whatever it is that makes your take on the Trinity better/superior/(whatever) to others.

The following I am going to put in bold for you.

I have no qualms with your right to believe the Trinity Sulla.

I call you out (still, nothing has changed here) for saying you have a superior argument on the trinity, and not presenting it.

I truly hope that your faith makes you better person.

I think your next goal for your faith would be to develop a little bit of humility.

I absolutely contradict whatever statement that you would put out there that your god and your take on god (trinity or otherwise) is the one and only way to worship.

I have no desire to in general to spend a lot of time debating the Trinity with you per se Sulla. What motivated me to confront you is the appearance you gave (in my view) that you have the absolute truth. That isn't correct. I don't think that debating the trinity in that context with you is a waste of time, because the point isn't your personal belief (i.e. what is good for you) but your supposition that your personal belief is THE one. (i.e. the trinity is THE truth for everyone)

I got one more for you, but that will be my next comment.....

55

Former JW. money counter at district conventions tells all.

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

how much money flows into the watchtower coffers at their annual fund raiser the district convention?.

former witness lurene stanley working along with her high ranking jw.

husband had the opportunity to see what goes on in the back room at disrtict conventions.

AllTimeJeff

I really want to do my best to be empathetic. I really do.

Rick used to be a JW, and clearly was hurt. For that, he merits my empathy.

I first came across Rick's website as I was leaving JW's. My first thought was "This is a dis-service to those trying to expose JW's." Such a website can only attract the mentally ill.

Rick, when I look at your website, and your tactics specifically, I am reminded of why I never wanted my whole JW past to dominate my future. It would be so easy for me, who has lost my entire family, almost killed in Cameroon, to be VERY sensationalistic.

I highlight the difference between you and me, because I am not there yet. I still come here to hang out. I get pissed off occasionally. Still. But one thing I won't do is lie.

I realize you only answer to yourself. That is fine. I bet that you don't care what I or others here say.

Sadly, I bet you feed off our negative (and honest) feedback.

I have no expectation that you will listen. I don't say this other then to say, you are wrong, no matter how good intentioned you view yourself.