Posts by AllTimeJeff

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

I know that the Trinity is mis-represented by Jehovah's Witnesses.

It bears saying as well that Jehovah's Witnesses are also mis-represented.

How many times did I read as a JW that we celebrated Good Friday, occasionally Easter? I have read articles where JW's believe all sorts of things.

I am well aware that there are many ways to interpret and believe the Trinity. I do not believe that the Trinity is what JW's described it to be.

Being mis-represented is one issue, but it isn't the main issue.

If you garyneal, have an understanding of the Trinity that differs from Sulla (who knows if it is different or the same, as no one seems to be able to encapsulate their views in a few sentences so far) that's cool. In addition, if that particular theology balances you, believe me, that is wonderful.

While Sulla and I are probably boring everyone to tears right now (my apologies for what that's worth) it is very hard to say that a particular theology is relevant/superior when one isn't willing to share it.

For what this is worth, I have read up on a variety of information on the Trinity after I read one of leolaia's essays on the matter. While JW's definitively lie about the Trinity, that doesn't give the theology behind it a free pass either.

In addition, monotheism is rampant through the OT, and there are legitimate issues regarding accepting the OT as part of 'sacred scripture' and having a new doctrine co be introduced after the time of Jesus in the NT.

I have looked into the bible with an open mind as well and have obviously come to different conclusions.

38

New light emerging?

by breakfast of champions in

so, just recently ( i believe it was the september 1 wt) there was the thought that only the "incorrigibly wicked" will be destroyed at armageddon.

at the recent visit of the co, several times he brought up the idea that the "great crowd" will be far more people than just the 7m jws on earth today.

all my life i was raised thinking only jws would be the gc, and the other 99.9% of humanity would be fertilizer.

AllTimeJeff

If they try that, I will be right here waiting.....

10

Visa, Mastercard

by stillin in

the recent post from barbara anderson prompted this dialogue between my wife and myself on the way home from the meeting this morning:.

stillin: i heard that some of the churches actually are swiping your credit card so that you can make your contribution that way.. stillin's very-stillin wife: i'm not at all surprised.

how much lower can they go?.

AllTimeJeff

Sometime's, that what it takes to activate the brain.

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

People, mankind, are more important than the Trinity, and old, outdated theology.

I bet you that Jesus would agree.

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

Keep talking Sulla....

I promise I don't give a shit about your education. What bothers me is that you haven't learned enough about a subject like the Trinity to have any sort of opinion worth listening to, but that this does not stop you from spouting your opinion.

You have no idea what I know about the Trinity. I call bullshit Sulla. BULLSHIT!

Share what you know. Or don't. But don't try your "I can't win when my team has the ball" tactic of trying to switch the conversation. Really, if you can't argue the Trinity with someone (gasp, like me) who is clearly not on your educational or intellectual level, what chance does your belief in the Trinity have?

You haven't given an argument. Still. But are content to say that no former JW is qualifed to talk about it at all.

Get over yourself.

Even on the thread where i admit that I argued the Trintiy on a thread where I saw arguing the Trinity as a waste of time, the only thing you point out is that I argued. Ok. Point conceded.

What I haven't conceded is that YOU (not all Trinitarians, YOU Sulla, ) and what you maintain are wrong in saying that I, among others, aren't qualified to talk about the Trinity.

Is that your tactic? Are you looking for someone to talk about the Trinity that you respect?

Geez, this is really all about you anyway. So be it.

Sulla, with all my heart, you don't have to defend what you believe. I don't. I have some ideas, some beliefs that are important to me. I wouldn't, don't and won't, talk about them or argue them. They are for me.

So if the Trinity is important to YOU, that IS different. I respect that and hope it brings you peace and stability.

However, if you come on an internet forum of former JW's, who are read, educated, and experienced in life, and expect us to fall over because you mention Thomas Aquinas's name? Wow. Good luck there.

35

Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - The Day My JW Faith Began to Die (finally)

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

it was late june of 2001 that i was appointed as an elder at the amazingly seasoned age of 26. a true lifelong goal had been achieved.

i had to be appointed an elder before 30. already, peers were starting to be appointed.

i had to make it.

AllTimeJeff

BTTT.

On the 10th anniversary, my thoughts are with the victims and families. As a nation, I hope that we can begin to take the bandage off the scar, and move away from the trauma that has been readily apparant for the last 10 years.

Peace.

44

Rick Fearon has been totally exposed!

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

why would he post a pic of byron brown, the mayor of buffalo, ny in this thread, http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/215638/1/former-jw-money-counter-at-district-conventions-tells-all .

.

http://www.buffalospreemagazine.com/archives/2006_04/0406byronbrown.html.

AllTimeJeff

Funny how he sounds just like a Bethel elder in his defense for his bullshit.

Be patient.

Those who expose me are not patient.

Those who are reasonable listen to me and are patient.

I think he couldn't have picked a better name than Kool Aid Man.

161

Theological Arguments, Human Realities

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

that he is jesus.

AllTimeJeff

Pistoff, that is a great point, and you cut to the chase way better then I did.

A study of the Trinity in the realm of theological Christianity alone is actually disingenuous, and ignores (dare I say it) the rest of the world.

I understand that the Trinity, like Theology, is most comfortable for a believing Christian when amongst fellow believers. As I recall, I felt the most comfortable about JW theology when I was around fellow head nodders. My least comfortable times? Talking to someone at the doorwho was read up on me and had some points to make. Made me think. Expanded my world view.

There is a difference between being getting knowledge and receiving a real education. Many people are well read, and would kick any theologians ass in their understanding and arguments of religious subjects and theology. They have not limited themselves to one point of view.

The history of the Trinity, like many other Christian/Catholic theologies and subjects, can be very enlightening. However, at the end of the day, they provide only one glimpse, one side of a multifaceted story.

It certainly doesn't explain god. As a planet, we are moving away from a one size fits all view of god. Like it or not. And by the way, you can be a Trinitarian if that is good for you and what you need.

But don't sit there and pretend or imply that it is THE way.

If you can't explain it outside of your little club, it's probably best to stay in your little club.

44

Rick Fearon has been totally exposed!

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

why would he post a pic of byron brown, the mayor of buffalo, ny in this thread, http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/215638/1/former-jw-money-counter-at-district-conventions-tells-all .

.

http://www.buffalospreemagazine.com/archives/2006_04/0406byronbrown.html.

AllTimeJeff

Kool Aid Man,

It appears first of all that you have come up with your own flavor.

Getting JW's to shed tears is not a monumental accomplishment with all respect to former JW's and those still stuck in. We are raw and beat up. We need support, we need clear information. In short, we need to know that we will be ok.

Because ultimately when you leave, whether by choice or not, that is what goes through your mind.

Your website is not about former JW's. It's about bringing down the leadership, the organization. While I understand why you would want to, the fact that you try makes you very delusional.

JW activism is a complete waste of time.

The difference between you and Randy Waters, JWfacts, and others of their ilk is that, while they surely wish (as I do) that JW's would simply go away, the best thing that can be done is to help one person at a time leave when they are ready.

Your steady diet of bullshit sensationalism might (might) be well intentioned. It also is purposely misleading.

Good news though, most people ignore JW's. So even less are going to notice you. I realize that like JW's, you will appeal to a certain demographic. That can't be helped.

But please don't sit there and play the martyr card when the info you put out there is WAY over the top. Please don't sit there and claim that people rush to judgment when you are caught in a flat out lie to drum up publicity for your website and call in's.

I think there is a lot all exiting JW's can learn about their post JW life from you Rick, and the biggest lesson is learning how to move on.

You are the closest to Captain Ahab I have seen in quite a while. Time to bring your boat back into shore.

35

Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - The Day My JW Faith Began to Die (finally)

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

it was late june of 2001 that i was appointed as an elder at the amazingly seasoned age of 26. a true lifelong goal had been achieved.

i had to be appointed an elder before 30. already, peers were starting to be appointed.

i had to make it.

AllTimeJeff

I am glad that I was not alone either... :)

The biggest challenge any person faces is to know themselves first, then be true to themselves after. Hopefully, reflecting on the meaning of 9/11 has helped us all in that endeavor.

It seems to me that for any sane person who was a JW around 9/11, how the real zealous, dyed in the wool JW's acted would have been a real clue to the value of the JW religion. (which is to say, it has very small amounts of value)