Posts by AllTimeJeff

8

Interview with an Apostate: No Regrets

by NoRegrets in

tell us a little about yourself and your family.. i was raised in a small town congregation that was largely made up of 2 large ruling families/dynasties.

i gave my first talk at age 5 that my mom wrote for me on note cards.

my parents were the first.

AllTimeJeff

Ha! I like the gesture comment. I hope you and your family have a wonderful and meaningful Christmas this year. :)

19

Interview with an apostate: Confused and Alone

by confusedandalone in

tell us a little about yourself and your family.. i am 36 years old and married with 2 children under the age of ten.

i am waiting for my letter of da situation to be completed.

my wife is also done with the watchtower organization and plans to make things official on the 3 rd of january.. are your parents / family jws?.

I enjoyed this. I don't know how you feel as a former elder, but one reason why its hard for me to give elders any breaks in the Borg is that, deep down, they know and see the rot. They have to deal with pedophile's and politics. At some point, you have to stop passing off everything as a "test", and accept the fact that, yes, the CO is a big dick, and he didn't get it right, and those two elders really did kiss his ass, and probably helped their cause with a green handshake or two..... (small rant there.... lol)

Glad you got out! Thanks for sharing.

22

Interview with an Apostate: Julia Orwell

by Julia Orwell in

tell us a little about yourself and your family.. i have a husband and we've been married nearly three years.

no kids.. were you a born in or a convert?.

convert- converted from atheism in my teens.. are your parents / family jws?.

AllTimeJeff

Nice. I like your statements on the propaganda of JW's and how much of it is like the old communist crap that was (and still is) around.

I hope you get your confidence in you back to a higher level. If art is your thing, share it with the world. The impact you have could be huge. As an individual, who you are and what you can do is irreplaceable. So be you, and shine. :)

8

Interview with an Apostate: AllTimeJeff

by AllTimeJeff in

tell us a little about yourself and your family.. i was born to jw parents.

which is ok, i haven't actually tried to make new friends.

this is actually a really big deal in my life and one i have been working through.

AllTimeJeff

Ok, I will bite. Great idea Simon. I like the idea of grouping an area for these interviews.

Tell us a little about yourself and your family.

I was born to JW parents. Mom was a 3rd gen JW, (making me a 4th) and Dad converted after spending his late teens and early 20's as a hippie and hitting every single hippie spot throughout the late 60's. He became a JW after he was assurred that hell fire wasn't real. Thus, he found a new religion to transfer his guilt and angst to. I was the oldest of two brothers. My younger brother (as many of you know) took his own life 15 years ago, as he got addicted to drugs and was unable to deal with whom he really way.

Were you a born in or a convert?

Born in, with all the privileges and benefts, including getting to hold a mic before my 10th birthday! (sarcasm implied)

Are your parents / family JWs?

Before my Mom passed away, she left. Most of my family on my Mom's side are still in, and have nothing to do with me. Dad, for whatever reason, still is a JW. I have my opinions as to why. We haven't talked in years.

How many generations have been JWs?

4. Great grandparents on my mom's side were Russelites in Allegheny PA in the late 19th century.

Did you hold any position in the WTS? (MS, Elder etc...)

Yes. I was a MS and Reg Pioneer at 19, an elder at 26, a Gilead grad and missionary at 30 (class 119. Boo Yah!) Pretty much decided that I was going to climb the company ladder in my teens. The borg did a great job of seducing an ambitious, goal oriented, well intentioned youth with "a real life".

Did you *really* believe in the bible, in spirits (angels, demons)?

Looking back, no. As I came into adulthood and saw how crazy the JW's who really did believe were, it turned me off. It was so illogical. I read the bible with the intent of becoming a better person and helping other people, but never to get a supersitious view of the world. Ironically, the thousands of people I talked to in my JW career helped me so much to see the difference and variety of people and their belief systems.

Did you get baptised? When and why?

When I was 13 in June 25 of 1988. Hialeah racetrack. Why? I didn't want to waste anytime in becoming a big shot MS.

What was the initial trigger that made you start questioning things?

Oh, this will take hours, but here are the highlights. It started with my brothers suicide in 1998 and how I was congratulated for towing the company line in shunning him prior to his demise. (he was addicted to drugs and Df'd for a few years). That bothered me. A lot. Also, 9/11. I commented the day the WTC fell that this was what WE were teaching as to what Armageddon would like like. I recall how petty I felt that day to be talking to people who were clearly grieving and scared, and here I was, this pompous ass of an elder, smiling, asking them if they'd like to sign up for some more.

Later on, as an elder, I got to deal with a lot of DF'd JW pedophiles. (we had a prison in our territory that housed a lot of them.) To read the letters and having to follow the Society's clearly self serving guidelines distrubed me.

Finally, at Gilead Class 119, when we got to 2 Kings 1 and 2, where the correct answers were Elijah = C T Russell and Elisha = J F Rutherford, I admitted to myself for the first time that this whole thing was bullshit.

Where did you find information? Internet sites? Books?

After I got back from Africa, I went to a book store with free Wifi and started reading up. I got CoC by Ray Franz. I wasn't shocked because it sounded like GB meetings were like every elders meeting I ever took part of.

How difficult or painful was the process of leaving?

Oh, it was pretty damn hard. I left my ex wife a Dear John letter, along with my resignation letter, side by side. It broke my heart, even though I had a smile on my face a mile wide the first two weeks I was actually gone.

Was it a big dramatic exit or a careful quiet fade?

Big and DRAMAtic. I would have done things much differently now, but back then, that was the only way I knew how. I put both letters on the table at the home of the couple we were staying with, stayed home from a social event, threw all that I wanted to take in two garbage bags and went to an apartment I secretly rented. After a couple of weeks of wavering, I fully committed to the decision. Because I didn't share any of my true intentions, (because I didn't trust any of them, esp my now ex wife) they thought I had literally lost my damn mind. Little did they know, I had actually found it for the first time.

Did you convince anyone else to leave with you?

I didn't want that. I just wanted to leave and had no desire to get anyone to come with me. I just wanted to start over somehow.

How were your family relations affected by your decision?

Since I was the number one shunner in my family before I came to my senses, I didn't chase after anyone. Still, I have had no contact with any JW relatives since I left in 2006.

Were you or are you still being shunned by those who didn't leave?

Still being shunned.

How long have you now been out?

As of this little interview, a full seven years.

Was there anything you looked forward to doing when you left?

Ha! Nothing particularly moral as I recall. But that isn't me, (plus I have zero game with the ladies, my best pick up line at the time could probably have been found in the Reasoning book) so I took to just working my ass off, reading, and contemplating. Plus, I came here a lot to argue, debate, and work things out.

What are you most proud of achieving since you left?

Great job and I am a home owner.

Is there anything you miss about life in the congregation?

I had a close group of friends that I was social with. I don't have those friends anymore. Which is ok, I haven't actually tried to make new friends. Still working on that. (no need to feel sorry for me there, that is all on me, my choices, etc)

Red pill or blue pill? Do you regret waking up to reality at all?

No regrets at all. If you take the Matrix as an odd little ex JW allegory, I like the idea of me being Neo. Frankly, if you're into that sort of thing, all of us can be Neo. It takes a while to understand, there is no spoon.

Did you become an atheist or transfer your faith elsewhere?

This is actually a really big deal in my life and one I have been working through. I doubt I will ever be active in a religion or church. However, the quality of FAITH is something that I think is a part of the human experience. Faith and belief is also something that has been hijacked by most organized religions throughout the history of the world. I would never argue with an atheist or agnostic, because I would lose. I respect atheists. These days, I have no desire to debate the subject anymore. I have built certain belief systems that are for me alone, and frankly, no one else needs to be privy to them on this forum. To debate something I have decided upon is a waste of my time.

How do you now feel about religion in general?

Religion is a crutch. I feel a great deal of anger toward much of the religions of the world. But I recognize the utility it serves in many peoples lives, so as long as they leave me alone, I will leave them alone.

Do you feel any guilt celebrating xmas or birthdays or doing any other JW "no-no"s?

I LOVE CHRISTMAS! ALWAYS DID! It's my favorite time of year, and now I get to celebrate it. I have no guilt at all about much of anything. I don't believe in sin.

Have you attended any face-to-face meetups of ex-JWs?

Not yet.

Describe your circle of friends - mostly other ex-JWs or regular people?

For the most part, I don't have an inner circle. I was hurt and pretty much hid except for work for a good number of years, licking my wounds.

Do you tell people about your JW past?

I do now. I was ashamed I was ever in that sickeness for years. But I am now comfortable that this is a part of my journey.

Do you feel animosity or pity toward current JWs?

No animosity. I used to believe because that was my only option offered. Pity? I guess. I also realize that JW's aren't the only high control group out there, so it helps to know I wasn't the only one taken advantage of.

How do you respond to witnesses when they call at your door?

Finally had one a few months ago knock. I told them I wasn't interested. And then I went back to my life. :)

Storm the barricades or tend to the wounded? (do you favor activism or support)

I am still a closet activist. I just haven't found my new passion in life yet.

What do you think is the most effective approach to reaching people still in?

Live an awesome life and be happy. It confuses the hell out of them.

Do you think the WTS can or should be destroyed, will continue on as-is or grow / change?

This has always been an interesting question. I think groups like JW's will always be around. Get rid of JW's, and Scientology will become the next big thing. (Wait, they already are.....) High control groups and cults will always appeal to the dis-enfranchised and those that feel they don't fit in. As far as JW's specifically, I think they are definitely on the down side, considering that we are exactly one month away from 100 years of the year 1914 as being significant. They didn't see the internet coming did they? I think they will adapt, change, and if they are really smart, get liberal. You know, like Mormons.

How has your life been impacted by your JW past?

Huge. I missed my opportunity to finish college (still haven't ruled that out) and being a JW, and an upper crust JW at that, caused me to inherit a superior attitude that frankly, I have been trying to change ever since I left. My mom and brother are gone, and that is directly related to their JW exposure. My dad is side ways in his head. I don't have a whole lot of what I can reference that would be considered normal. But I choose to embrace it, and I will make something unique and special out of all of this. My life is just getting started.

Are there things in your life you blame the WTS for?

No. I can't allow myself to go down that road. Even if they did take advantage of me, I had MANY opportunities to turn back, to resign as an elder, to not go to Gilead, to not go to Africa, but I didn't. Blame isn't the right word here in my opinion. It's all about being responsible for my life. Only by embracing my past decisions can I make better ones in the future.

JW upbringing - a protection or a curse?

Uh, depends on what you choose to look at. I definitely had two involved parents, and bless them, they weren't too crazy. I don't suffer from addictions to substances. The only curse was, I should have pursued a worldly career instead of a theocratic one. Lol.

How do you fill your time now it's not filled with meetings and field service?

Work. Lots of work.

Do you still have an interest in JW beliefs and doctrines?

None.

How much of your time is still spent on JW related matters?

Not a whole lot. It is such a part of my past that I still don't know how to blend it all in. I can't simply forget about that, because that is the first 30 years of my life.

What do you think of the ex-JW community?

I like them. We all seem to have one thing in common, we want to be our own person.

Do you see yourself still being associated with the ex-JW community in 5 or 10 years time?

Yes I can see that.

Do you fear the future?

Usually no. I am trying to save for my retirement, and I am trying to get rich. The future is something I can control to the extent that I control my own little world. The government, scandals, politics, etc are more and more a time waster to me. I want to be around people and make an impact. Still

What advice would you give to anyone starting the journey of leaving the WTS?

Be patient with yourself. I wrote a blog several year back called Its All About Them Until We Remember Our First Name. It occurred to me that we informally called each other "brother" or "sister" without even thinking about it. Imagine, you have to figure out what your name will mean to others when they get to know you. Because in the borg, you were either a male or a female preacher.

So be patient. Also, if I could do it all over again, I would do my best to find a friend and just be weak. I never allowed myself that. (that is something I still suck at frankly) Also, even if you've been betrayed, be willing to give your heart again. You can't live in a cave of your own choosing.

What would you change in your life if you could go back and talk to yourself?

I would want to have a mentor that could talk sense to me. Being "the smart one", few feel comfortable telling me that I am being a dick. I wish I had a father who could've taught me about what true humility really is. I promise you all, I see the value in real humility now. I am working on it.

Do you have any regrets about life since you left?

None.

Can we read your life-story anywhere? (links to online or books)

Yes. Here is my life story.

AllTimeJeffs Story

Want to share your own story? Please use the Interview with an Apostate: Template and post it in the Personal Experiences & Reunions section with the title "Interview with an Apostate: [your name or alias]"

21

No longer a former JW, I am now a Human Being

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

lurkers, debaters, haters, lovers, the lost, the found, and the misplaced.

it's been a while, and i wanted to pop in.

the point isn't to agree.

AllTimeJeff

Thanks everyone. This forum is great. I doubt you will see me debating anymore. I don't need to fight.

And thanks to Outlaw for reminding me that I am indeed, a Human Bean. ;)

21

No longer a former JW, I am now a Human Being

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

lurkers, debaters, haters, lovers, the lost, the found, and the misplaced.

it's been a while, and i wanted to pop in.

the point isn't to agree.

AllTimeJeff

Hello to all. Lurkers, debaters, haters, lovers, the lost, the found, and the misplaced. It's been a while, and I wanted to pop in. I am afraid that the only evidence in some respects that I have lived in the decade known as my 30's is on this forum. It's a good exercise for me to look at the past and reflect about how far I have come. (as well as how many intellectual pieces of clothing I have tried on)

This post isn't about Jehovah's Witnesses per se. It's about being a human being.

Imagine that you just didn't know. 1914. The 144,000. Elders. Circuit Overseers. District Conventions. Circuit Assemblies. Kingdom Halls. Etc. (A TON of etc's.....)

Imagine that you didn't get upset at any of it, because you just didn't know about it. Imagine that you are the person you always wanted to be.

And then, the knock on the door. Two teenage girls, in a very friendly, sincere manner, share a little tract and read a scripture. How cute. They are so polite and friendly, dressed so nice. So you take the tract. And then you read it, (which takes 30 seconds and three brain cells) and throw it away.

And you get on with your day. That sounds cool.

Imagine that your life wasn't interrupted. That you go on smoothly, that the wound isn't there, and that instead of a hole in your heart, you have a soul. That you feel like a human being, who can give and receive love, you know why you are here and who you are, you get life, and get death too, and you happily accept that this is at the very least, all you have NOW.

Here's the catch: Most people are just like you. They just weren't JW's at one time. But trust me, they were something else. Maybe you feel that you are WAY far away, but in reality, you are only as far away as you are willing to accept and love yourself. That is the start of everything. The older you get, the more you can see that the shit stirrers and the idiots hate themselves, and need to distract themselves from that pain. (So stop hating yourself, where you come from, and love yourself. You are truly unique, there isn't another YOU in the closet that will replace you. You are your unique thoughts and experiences. Wear it proudly!)

JW's are masters of getting you to think that you should put off your life and your humanity, (so that you can give the balance of it to them). They offer to fill some basic human needs, such as work, purpose, community, and (conditional) acceptance.

In return, you have to give up your first name in most cases (brother or sister will suffice), agree to limit what you will learn about and whose perspectives and opinions you will consider, agree to change with the leadership and not question anything. Keep up with the perscribed activity, and report on yourself in all kinds of ways.

Your reward is community. Your reward is that you belong. You are loved for what you do, not who you really are. So instead of becoming who you are, you do what you can. Just so long as you don't question, debate, and grow.

I bet that was a deal breaker for you somewhere along the way.

I have enjoyed my time debating and arguing about politics, religion, god, theism, atheism, faith, belief, and how badly some football teams suck. (Both the Steelers and the Liverpool Reds) There was a purpose to it, esp if you are leaving and needing to figure things out. I enjoyed the ability I had to disagree with some people, and even tell them I didn't like them. Wow! Never got to tell anyone I despised in the Borg that I hated their guts. That's sort of a rush! And with the ability to do this, I tried on different points of view, got angry, got passionate, got happy, and forgot how to be happy. Overall, I took the time to figure out some things for me.

Among the most difficult for me personally was, 'Will I always be haunted, and feel that my identity is only as a former JW?' Happily, that answer is, I am ME. And I am the only person that needs to be cool with that fact.

One of the neat things about the ex JW community is the fact that on some level, you are motivated to come here and bleed a little bit, bare your soul, share your stories and your pain. And share the triumph as well. To me, you haven't given up on life. Which is awesome! It's a form of growing and learning.

It is impossible to agree all the time with everyone. The point isn't to agree. The point is to become who you are, to discover, and then, hopefully, to LOVE AND LIVE. Also the point is to know and understand that you will have to see where and who you are, and accept that most people will in fact, NOT agree with you or your decisions. (and to know that this is ok too.)

Some days I want to share what I have learned since I have left, (and I might do that) but on the other hand, what's the point? To get you to agree, so I feel validated? To find someone to disagree and debate with so I can mask my pain and justify my existence by finding my polar opposite, my intellectual enemy? To fill the empty time that I have no idea what else to do with by arguing and pointing out how wrong you are?

I would say one thing that is very important; Get it out. Bleed a bit. (But dress and heal the wound, lest it get infected) Get angry, get pissed, empathize, sympathize, love, help, and support. But don't forget to live outside this forum. I can say one thing with certainty: If all you have is this forum right now, please know, I, along with many others, have been there. Just don't stay there. If this forum is all you have, understand that this is a way station, a place to take a break, reorganize, and learn what you want to take with you on the rest of your journey.

I will always come back to this forum on occasion. I am so glad it and a couple of others were there for me. In doing my thing here, I have also learned that it isn't my purpose in life to get too much into the ex JW support scene. Maybe that will change as I continue to grow and come into more ownership of myself. I have a life to live, and people to associate with outside of the internet.

But I will always lurk. I may even meet a few of you in person at some point if that will work.

I haven't given up on JW's, or ex JW's. I am merely beginning to live.

25

Hello Jehovah's Witnesses. I was in class 119 of Gilead in 2005

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

my picture is in the january 1, 2006 watchtower.. why am i telling you this?

consider this my small weekend contribution to the cause of real truth.

any jw who has been one for a while, or a born in, knows the regard that pioneers, elders, bethelites and missionaries have.

AllTimeJeff

00dad, it's in my life story. Gilead is where I allowed myself the freedom to admit that I didn't believe their bullshit.

81

What Gilead Taught ME

by AllTimeJeff in

they mean the leadership.

all of this is code for: one who is not ready to really study and accept how the leadership of jehovah's witnesses use the bible to their own self serving means.

but to be fair, jw's teach that most all of these characters refer to the leadership of jehovah's witnesses, the governing body.

AllTimeJeff

The info in this thread I think cuts to the heart of how the leadership of JWs operates. They look for a certain type, and they hoped I would be that type. Thankfully, I could think enough for myself. (Which is the ultimate JW antidote)

It's a very difficult thing to leave. Because you don't really know about the lie of it all till you climb their company ladder. They store all their rot in the penthouse. (If you follow my meaning)

24

Are there any former missionaries here?

by Newborn in

jw
friends

not sure i've ever read any experiences from former missionaries here (but i'm sure there has been) .

but it would be very interesting to know how you feel about it today.

everything you sacrificed.

AllTimeJeff

Part of it is JW tradition. That shouldn't be over thought.

The other part is that it legitimizes JWs in many parts of the world legally.

7

Lets get real and heal, and give some space to those that are trying to do both

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

i didn't mean being real and trying to heal to rhyme, but essentially, that's why people come here.

and depending on where we are, we need space.

when you leave, one thing you will learn, quickly or otherwise, is what is reality.

AllTimeJeff

I didn't mean being real and trying to heal to rhyme, but essentially, that's why people come here. And depending on where we are, we need space.

When you leave, one thing you will learn, quickly or otherwise, is what is REALity. I feel safe in saying that no JW leaves and just joins polite society, ready made for success with no issues.

Jobs? Dating? Money? Education? (Uh, the god/religion/faith question?) Good luck at first. You are going to stub your toe a little bit at least.

But that's why, if you look at Internet boards like this where former JWs is concerned, that's why you see amazingly angry political and religious arguments. Is it because you already know reality? Or simply trying to work it out from the safety and anonymity of your computer screen?

Reality is a difficult thing to looks at and acknowledge. Some were JWs for very judgmental reasons, others because they thought they could help people, or a mix of the two. Regardless, it sucks to learn that JWs are wrong. It hurts even more to realize that the world really isn't much better. There are lots of people like you, and lots of people whom you hate, or disagree with. And guess what? They aren't going away

That's reality.

And getting into reality, means getting into healing.

Healing yourself is very much a process of getting to know yourself first, and growing yourself as a unique, well rounded person second.

My suggestion, based on a little bit of experience (and hopefully, some hard earned wisdom), is to realize that reality is very colored by where you come from. Be humble and willing to listen to other opinions. Realize that you need to heal as well. Does it take years? Yes it does. But that doesn't mean you have to put off living while you heal. If you have a broken leg, you go to the doctor, put a cast on, learn how to walk on crutches while realizing that for the inconvenience of the cast and crutches, you are also healing, and looking forward to the time when the cast comes off, you can rehab the muscles, and be as strong as ever. Of course, you still work, and you still live with the temporary handicap. But in time, it heals. You heal.

if arguing on these boards is part of the process of discovering who you are and what you stand for, and it helps you heal, then go for it. But don't just leave your life here. And don't STAY angry. Anger is useful in short spurts, if only to get you started. But like a car that only stays in first gear, anger will only get you so far before it burns you out and leave you stuck in the middle of the road.

Theres only one life you control, and that's yours. And there will never be another you. Don't rob the world of the great person you can be. Learn who you really are, and share your gifts with all around you. Trust me, it's worth the effort.