i'm just making my way through crisis of conscience for the second time and once again i am struck by the presentation of such detailed records.
letters are shown in full - copies of letters from the branch, and to the branch.
reports are quoted vebatim.
I bow to Blondie's comments. However the Borg documented it for thier delusional file, they were looking to be rid of him.
I was a child when it all went down but I remember it well in the congregation I was in. I personally doubt that he had much to spur this on other than it was in front of him at the time, and like many, he was just trying to be helpful and make sense of it all while it was happening
i'm just making my way through crisis of conscience for the second time and once again i am struck by the presentation of such detailed records.
letters are shown in full - copies of letters from the branch, and to the branch.
reports are quoted vebatim.
It's always a fun pass time to wonder about things like that. I generally take him at his word from CoC.
I don't think he was playing a long game. I think he pushed in 1979 real hard, was found out, and was pushed out in 1980. The GB of the time was probably naive to not think Ray Franz would have documents with him. Remember, at first, he wasn't disfellowshipped. He was shipped down to Alabama and disfellowshipped a year later.
undeserved kindness means- you puny humans are irredemable and worthless, but because i am such a benevolent and magnanimous god.
i give you a way for salvation.
but you better keep working day in and day out for the rest of your miserable lives and perhaps i'll save you on my day of wrath.
From the aspect of JW leadership, any word or phrase that can control will be used.
This thread brought to mind something I use to think about while pioneering. (aka riding in the back of a minivan for 5 hours a day). At my worst, before life taught me differently, I recall being annoyed at those grace filled, "forgiven" Christians I'd run into. Though I am not a believer, I can now totally dig why those people reacted that way to a controlling, controlled JW showing up at their door. I certainly think it is more mentally healthy, if you are going to be a theist, to have a dogma that is more freeing and affirming of the human spirit.
Not that it matters much to me anymore, but, i like grace. It's also a great U2 song. ;)
my wife and son were watching the january broadcast and one of the segments was about william tyndale.
william tyndale was a bible translator in the early 16th century.
i always knew that the org held men like tyndale, john hus and john wycliffe in high regard.
Not to put anyone to sleep, because explaining this shit always makes me want to take a shower...
In my JW time, it was necessary to claim Tyndale and Wycliffe as "really old dude JW's" due to Matt 13: 24-30. An enemy (SATAN!) sowed his Devil Weed Seed (FALSE CHRISTIANS!) among the poor wheat (TRUE CHRISTIANS!). In verse 30, the master (JEEBUS!) instructed his servants to 'let both the wheat and the weeds grow together until the harvest (1919! 1935! 1975! GENERATION THAT SAW 1914! UH.....) so that they would be harvested together... We JW's would be saved! (and turned into bread, because, what the hell is wheat for anyway...) while the weeds would be burnt. (pretty bad thinking, why not turn weeds into compost? I digress)
So whatever the current understanding of this "harvest" that fit the current JW narrative, the point was that there had to be "Jehovah's Witnesses" from around from the end of the 1st century all through to modern times, when CT Russell put down his bong and picked up his bible. (poetic license expressed...) Thus, Tyndale and Wycliffe were adopted by the cult leaders to fulfill a prophecy. (Yay!)
Bottom line, if there is no Tyndale and Wycliffe, then the investment that Freddie "Oops I Did It Again" Franz put into Matt 13:24-30 would have turned off a couple of generations of invested JW's. Franz conveniently waited until he was dead before the proof was soundly presented that his interpretation was in fact, laced with bullshit.
If you're confused I am sure it's done its job
i've noticed several posts recently claiming that jw friends and family members give out conditional love.
well, i'm not so sure that is entirely accurate, in fact, i would say they tend to be very steadfast in their love.
the issue is this, they have been taught a poor form of love.
JW's as people are generally nice. I have always tried to make a distinction between the leadership and the sheeples.
So if you're saying that JW's do NOT practice wholesale "conditional love", then I agree.
However, what the leadership enforces is conditional love, especially through the JC's and disfellowshippings. Many JW families still sneak familial interactions out of sight from the elders. We know this. However, by and large, JW's institutionally advocate and teach conditional love, even if the sheeples don't always follow it.
I would also add that for all of the broken hearts that are left behind by judicial rulings, the Borg also break the hearts of many "faithful" JW families who choose to stay in. They start to die inside trying to stay loyal to judicial decisions against family members, especially ones involving their own kids. For sure they should be held accountable for their part in supporting this crap, but let's not kid ourselves. They are devastated. And yet, not devastated enough to do the right thing. That's the power of cults for you.
not too long ago, i posted a topic where i pointed out that there are about 1 million xjws alive right now.
that number only represented the disfellowshipped ones... didn't account for those who had become publishers and left or anyone else who got hurt by that group by proxy.
so, why are there so few of them online?
Good point Simon. Come to think of it, with the dominance of social platforms, is it possible that forums like this may not be the first choice of an exiting JW who wishes to join a community? Is it trending that way?
hi everyone i don't even know where to begin.
i recently saw leah remini's series on scientology thanks to my husband (semi-active jw) and i felt like my eyes were being opened for the 1st time in my adult life.
i felt shaken almost sick to my stomach with each episode i watched.
Anger is like first gear in a car. It's great to get started, but you have to switch to other gears or you'll burn up on the highway.
OOPS I hit post before I was ready.
Get angry, it's ok, it's part of the process. Just don't stay there. :)
not too long ago, i posted a topic where i pointed out that there are about 1 million xjws alive right now.
that number only represented the disfellowshipped ones... didn't account for those who had become publishers and left or anyone else who got hurt by that group by proxy.
so, why are there so few of them online?
Just my perspective....
JW's are more of a fringe group then we probably realize. Sure, it was our entire life, but the JW experience, unique as it is, doesn't in my opinion have the same outside interest as Mormons (Money, greater numbers on the rolls) or Scientology (many celebrity sheeples) inspire, though it's easy for us to see the many similarities in control, activities, etc.
Someone commented already that 'JWs do not attract thinkers.' Well said. A consequence of all of the "1914 Generation Won't Die" is the apathy bred. It seems that most who have left never cared that much to begin with. Those that do care or were neck deep in it (as I was) come online because we cared and probably continue to show that caring in the posts and conversations we choose to involve ourselves in.
Let's face it, if you got involved due to mild amusement or just because the JW at your door happened to be more persuasive then average, your investment wasn't very big. So, no big deal to leave, fade/go inactive, whatever works for you. You probably weren't activist minded enough to knock on doors more than a couple of times a month, attend some meetings. Likely, your lifestyle didn't change too much as a result, so, why get online and vent when you didn't care that much to begin with.
For my part, I've needed breaks. Lately, I am more at peace with my past, which allows me to hang around here with a different perspective to share. It also doesn't affect me like it once did to share my past.
hi everyone i don't even know where to begin.
i recently saw leah remini's series on scientology thanks to my husband (semi-active jw) and i felt like my eyes were being opened for the 1st time in my adult life.
i felt shaken almost sick to my stomach with each episode i watched.
There is one thing I'd like to offer in the way of lessons learned via experience: Beware of information overload. If your eyes are now opened to how JW's are like Scientology (and thus, cultish/cultlike/high control group) then you have some stuff to work through. Be patient with yourself. It is absolutely a process, but one that is well worth it.
Now that you are open to considering facts, you are going to have reactions to some of the stuff you've learned. I wish you peace and that you don't linger to long in the anger. :)
