Posts by AllTimeJeff

69

Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult and here's why I think so

by B_Deserter in

when most people think of "cult" they think of the people's temple, the branch davidians, or heaven's gate.

many also want to put jehovah's witnesses, mormons, and scientologists into this group.

i don't agree with that because there is one main difference between true cults and high-control groups like jws:.

AllTimeJeff

Just to add my two cents, I do believe that they exhibit enough controlling behavior to be a cult. I have to say that when I left, I started similar threads. I used to think that because they weren't like the Jamestown or Heavens Gate people that they weren't a cult.

Having said that, we have to acknowledge the problems of semantics that so often causes difficulties in these debates. On the one hand, many who leave don't want to think of themselves as ever belonging to a cult, esp because while we were in the borg we did call other fringe groups "cults". (oh the irony) On the other hand, is it really the case that only fringe radical groups qualify for the designation "cult"?

I do think that there are many who call them a cult and leave it at that. It is easier to label then to explain. (that is a JW tactic) Imo, when you simply label a group in an angry manner and leave it at that, you play into the GB's hands. They know that most don't "understand" them, and that those who leave are often angry. So instead of being defensive, the borg goes on the offensive, saying "Yeah, but can't you see that they are disgruntled? LOOK AT HOW ANGRY THEY ARE! No wonder they call us a cult...."

I think if you are going to call them a cult, you back it up in the same calm manner that the JW's display. You have to fight the enemy with their own weapons. Hell, if you were ever a part of the TMS and SM, you know the tactics! Use them!

Having said that, they are a cult, and are going backwards, not forwards. The monthly editions of the magazines, a members only WT, cutting the PT to thrity minutes with no secular references to be used or mentioned unless they are in the WT and AW (and I bet the number of secular references they are using lately is going way down) points to further isolation, not integration. You can't say you are not a cult if there is no way to ask legitimate questions about legitimate issues to the powers that be. If you do, are disfellowshipped as an apostate. It isn't scriptural, logical, or just. Even is you ask about the UN or Pedophilia. It's nuts..... and its cultish....

10

Changes in the Organization and their Effects.

by KW13 in

jw
friends

short term, what do you feel the recent changes the organization has seen and is about to see will do to the witnesses and the society as a whole?.

long term do you feel the changes will do anything positive for the society?.

its very much like big brother with double-speak, mind control and fear.

AllTimeJeff

A couple of practical changes....

All of the GB with the exception of Ted Jaracz and John Barr were appointed 1994 and after. (Only Losch was in 94, 6 others have come after.....)

These young GB members are relatively alive. They also have their own opinions and agendas. Most were CO's in the USA and Canada during the 70's and 80's. (Splane, Herd, Pierce, Lett and Morris) Jackson, Losch, Jaracz, and Splane were all missionaries. With the exception of Geoff Jackson, these missonary GB's went to Gilead.

I bring out these facts because as any ex elder on JWD can attest to, the GB is just another body of men with delusions of grandeur. They get together and debate their points of view. The key in my opinion is to look for patterns, look to what has happened since their appointments. (I readily acknowledge that no one can really know what is said behind the closed cultish doors of the GB...)

Since Jackson and Morris were appointed in August 05, there have been a lot of changes. Anyone notice? That includes the notable monthly edition of the Awake, and the new members only WT for 08. While at Gilead, there were a lot of branch committee personnel called back and reassigned. JW's have the new methods to choose DC speakers. The KM School for elders where all elders will be at Patterson at some point in 08. The Public Talk got cut to 30 minutes, the elders got a letter on ALL WT meetings to be conducted in a similar manner. I'm sure I'm forgetting some things....

This indicates to me that the 2/3 majority that Ray Franz first revealed in COC is still in effect. With the latest 2 added, that would be 6 out of 9. (the 3 being Losch, and whoever would be stupid enough to agree with him,,,,, small joke, sorry) You actually have 7 of the 9 appointed since 1994. That is very telling to me. (I would be remiss to point out that there is another "annointed" brother who teaches branch school at Patterson. Everyone says he will be the next member of the GB at some point. If anyone can remember his name, that would be great. I can't remember, but don't be suprised of another appointment in the next year or two...)

The whole point to this to me is that it is all political and about personalities and probably always has been. With new personalities on the GB, and their seeming willingness to go back to the ways of Knorr on a lot of levels, I anticipate more changes. I think these younger guys are putting their stamp on what works for them, and will cut the fat of what doesn't work. (notably the "generation" prophecies and likely 1914 at some point. That would probably happen after Jaracz and Barr are dead)

Thanks for reading that rambling mess of an opinion....

29

Another Take On the New WT Format

by AllTimeJeff in

when i first heard about the change to a members only wt, i was beyond furious.

i had gone back and forth as to whether i used to belong to a cult.

the gb continues to isolate in their own unique way all of their flock.

AllTimeJeff

A thousand apologies for calling it "benign". I left my quote up in context, although I wish I could take it down.... Not what I meant....

Probably because every WT says the same thing packaged in different ways, my point was that nothing out of the usual was in the WT. I'll tell ya, when I was on the way out, I would read the WT and roll my eyes every other sentence.

I agree with everyone here that the WT and it's insidious suggestions about how their flock should live in "this time of the end" is poisonous and ruins lives. That is why I started this thread, because in addition to the financial benefits to the borg, this new edition of the WT is an opportunity for them to more directly "command" over time what they feel the flock should do. I do believe that this will happen over time.

This first issue is par for their cultish course, but I predict it will get worse.

30

Opray Winfreys handling of sexual child abuse~an example for Governing Body

by purplesofa in

the governing body should be hanging their heads in shame watching how the events unfolded in south africa at oprah winfrey's school.

her fearless way in meeting the problems head on, not covering up, calling in expert help, investigating, apologizing, getting all adults away from the campass so the girls could talk openly about what happened.

those girls came first.

AllTimeJeff

The fact is that if they really did have the truth, they would right these wrongs. Money would be no object over the proper and just treatment of pedophile victims. After all, if poor pioneers have to put their faith in Jehovah for their needs, then so should they WTBTS. Take care of these people and let Jehovah provide the money for their dumb printing and building projects. If you have the truth that is. BUT THE FLOCK SHOULD COME FIRST!

These idiots never admit a goddam thing they ever do. All for money... I am getting mad just typing this....

14

A question about Patterson complex

by Motema Bolingo in

jw
friends

according what i understand, this picture is a miniature model of patterson complex.. .

somebody tells me that it is a real photo of the buildings .. what do you think ?.

thanks for help.

AllTimeJeff

Oh the memories... I was so excited to go there. I was so glad to leave. It is a beautiful piece of landscaping. But as one of the landscapers was commenting on to me about some requests a missionary made... "I don't know why they don't give you guys more. They spend way more on the landscaping here then on the people..."

Each missionary can only send 2 crates overseas to their new home. Any more and a missionary has to pay for it himself.... But the landscaping gets more money at Patterson... Trust me....

33

When did you STOP considering yourself a JW ? ? ? ?

by JH in

jw
friends

any particular event sparked this change of heart ?.

AllTimeJeff

The day I sent in my resignation letter while simultaneously leaving my marriage sort of sealed it for me....

14

Reason for splitting up watchtower editions

by Ozner in

jw
friends

tonight i did wake up and i knew it!

the reason for splitting up the watchtower editions in a public and a study version.

the reason is the same as for splitting up the watchtower society in ccjw, kingdom support, inc, religious order of jw (and local convention planning organisations, read the anderson-files about having no agents everywhere), just juridical!

AllTimeJeff

Thanks for your thoughts Ozner. Since both editions are published by the same legal entity, there is no legal basis to sue someone outside the borg for how they use it. (esp since a stranger can still get a copy at the weekly WT study... for now) JW's are distributing the different editions to different groups, but there is no litigation strategy to pursue the way things stand.

Perhaps your idea would have more legal merit if the two editions were printed under two seperate corporations, but they aren't.

29

Another Take On the New WT Format

by AllTimeJeff in

when i first heard about the change to a members only wt, i was beyond furious.

i had gone back and forth as to whether i used to belong to a cult.

the gb continues to isolate in their own unique way all of their flock.

AllTimeJeff

Good points Zack. It helps to understand these weird teachings more when you realize that JW's teach that the bible, specifically the NT is written to the annointed 144,000 only. (from their pov)

These changes illustrate the personality of the all new GB. Only Ted Jaracz is left, the rest are all new. These changes would not have occurred (i.e. monthy Awakes, members only WT's, more hardline stances on porn while settling the pedophile cases) without the new GB's.... I think it is inevitable that more changes will occur that reflect the beliefs and personality of the current GB.

Don't expect to find them in the public edition of the WT though.

29

Another Take On the New WT Format

by AllTimeJeff in

when i first heard about the change to a members only wt, i was beyond furious.

i had gone back and forth as to whether i used to belong to a cult.

the gb continues to isolate in their own unique way all of their flock.

AllTimeJeff

Good point V. I should have said relatively benign.

There is no doubt that the JW lifestyle is absolute poison. 5 meetings a week, FS, we all know the drill. Now that the GB is becoming aware that they can't stop their flock from totally looking at the information about them on the internet, how do they buttress their untenable teachings against the power of independant thought? Restrict it wherever you can, while cutting off your enemy from looking at your game plan.

The GB views itself at war with apostates. (I need to think of a better name for us, besides ex JW's or apostates, but whatever...) We have the upper hand, because truth is on our side. That is the truth the GB wants to hide. They can't argue logic or facts, their only strategy is to restrict information. That is what makes this WT so interesting. While they continue to spew their typical nonsense, I detect a more nuanced strategy on the GB's part to keep people from leaving. This new WT format could be a part of this... imo

29

Another Take On the New WT Format

by AllTimeJeff in

when i first heard about the change to a members only wt, i was beyond furious.

i had gone back and forth as to whether i used to belong to a cult.

the gb continues to isolate in their own unique way all of their flock.

AllTimeJeff

Oompa, what do you mean about the 1914 generation? We all know they changed the theology in 95, and recently have been distancing themselves from it for another generation by comparing the supposed 120 year period of the Arks contruction.... Just curious.

Edit: Sorry Oompa.... I reread your post....I don't know what they could possibly pull out of their rectal area, but I don't put anything past them. I don't forsee going back to the pre 95 teaching. I do see them making chesslike theological statements to gradually install a new understanding of "the generation" mentioned in Mt 24. Even at Gilead, the instructors mentioned that the GB doesn't totally understand everything in MT 24 and 25.

When that big change came out in 95, I recall the change being rather sudden. I am thinking if they do a major shift like that again it will be a lot more gradual, if they can pull it off...