Posts by AllTimeJeff

8

Can love and the tolerance of evil be compatible?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

the age old question, "why does god permit suffering" is probably the first question people ask about god.

for years, the wt answer satisfied me - the universal issue of sovereignty, proving the devil a liar, allowing enough time for humans to try every form of government and so on.... then i tried to understand the nature of free will, that god's love allows for both ends of the morality spectrum to happen - extremely good acts and extremely evil acts.

after all, a loving god couldn't withold free will from his creatures because that would make us robots.. i've come to realize now that this is not a satisfactory answer either, because when you make something intelligent and give it free will, you may not be responsible for what it does, but you are responsible for it.. parents know that if they leave their children in a car on a hot summer's day, their children can die from heat stroke.

AllTimeJeff

No.

While I do not blame God for the actions of men, I have to wonder whether or not God has an obligation to protect us from evil acts.

If god exists and he is loving, then he should be held to the same standards that parents in today's world are. No loving parent uses their children as an experiment to demonstrate that they should be worshiped. Parent's would be thrown in jail for neglect and abuse if they treated their kids the way god supposedly treated Adam and Eve in the allegory of Gen 1-3.

(a small aside to JW theology: BOOHOO JEHOVAH!!! Satan questioned your right to rule, then Adam and Eve took a bite of fruit from YOUR little tree... BOO FREAKIN HOO!!! So you get your panties in a wad Jehovah and condemn mankind to horrible suffering so you can stand aside and be an "I told you so" God. BOO FREAKING HOO! You sure are worthy to be worshipped, since you have done SO MUCH for man, like sending Jesus to die for us 2000 years ago? That has done mankind TONS of good. BOO FREAKING HOO THAT YOUR SOVREIGNTY WAS QUESTIONED. IT WAS QUESTIONED WITH EXCELLENT REASON, YOU ABSENTEE PARENT. BOO FREAKING HOO!)

...that felt good. Anyway the point is that inexperienced kids are off limits. Or should be. Why experiment on us?

You probably guess that I have learned that the bible with it's myriad of confusing personalities that are attributed to god is simply not true. If god existed, he absolutely should protect us from Satan, not use mankind to prove his point to Satan. WTF?? Not that it matters, its just our modern day version of Zeus that everyone has to deal with.

88

Paul's Letters: Part of "All Scripture ..." ?

by compound complex in

greetings, friends:.

a friend - a former jw - gave me thomas paine's the age of reason: being an investigation of true and fabulous theology.

the mind boggles as i begin, haltingly, to fathom what many of you have already learned and shared here on jwd: the authenticity of the bible is seriously in question.

AllTimeJeff

Religion has a history which is a far cry from trying to please a LOVING GOD!!

What ammuses me is when a thiest is hell bent on believing in god. Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty can't point to traditional religion as the answer without implicating YHWH, Jesus, or other mythical gods that people worship. Too many questions are raised. So what to do if you are a thiest, in this age of critical thinking? In the age of Chis Dawkins and Sam Harris?

You join the "discredit the bible/holy book" club. Thats right, you don't need it. All you need is a "personal relationship" with "god". And it's almost bulletproof, if logic didn't exist that is. Because you can claim that "god talks to you" and not have to produce a shred of evidence. You can be a "slave of Christ" while claiming that you don't need the gospels. Hey, "Take my word for it!" Because thats all that we can do. All you have to do is "let God in your heart and listen to him." It's that simple. Unless you are evil or not approved. Then you can't be in the "cool thiests" club that doesn't even need a holy book. God just doesn't care enough about YOU to give you a personal message.

Thiesm falls flat on its face when pressed for evidence. Bleeding sincere hearts make the case against thiesm, not for it.

28

"Secret" or "Members Only" Watchtower available for download

by grassyknoll07 in

jw
friends

hey, the so-called "secret" or "members only" watchtower is available online at www.jw.org.

yes, it's true.

the fds is trying to control us so much, they are making it available in a top secret location; the internet!

AllTimeJeff

I posted on the study edition here http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/146227/1.ashx

Consider how many hoops you have to go through to get this.Download Audio only? This isn't accesability or transparancy. By putting it in audio format, they make it much more difficult to be quoted. They can also say that they are making their study edition available to the public. I think it is a PR step, and pretty cynical at that.

My opinion has and continues to be that this study edition is a first step in a game of chess that the GB is destined to lose. Consider the fact that they have waited to change their understanding of a "generation" again until after the study edition came out. It isn't available for distribution to the press. Remeber that when the "generation" changed in 95, TIME magazine had a sidebar by their religous reporter, and it included some comments by Ray Franz. Can't get that kind of publicity now can they?

So now they wait for everyone to get used to the Study Edition, THEN (greek, Tote.. lol) they will start to put some more weird stuff in it. Trust me, it is GB policy. They make changes pretty slowly to keep the "apostates" at bay.

88

Paul's Letters: Part of "All Scripture ..." ?

by compound complex in

greetings, friends:.

a friend - a former jw - gave me thomas paine's the age of reason: being an investigation of true and fabulous theology.

the mind boggles as i begin, haltingly, to fathom what many of you have already learned and shared here on jwd: the authenticity of the bible is seriously in question.

AllTimeJeff

AGuest, your sincerity and kindness bleed through in your messages. Not having followed your posts, I did not know until now that you do not use the bible as your main source of "revelation".

As anyone can say anything they want regarding such "personal" revelations or communications with "god", "Christ", etc there is no point arguing with you. The fact that you believe it is obviously enough for you. I certainly can in no way take your word for it.

I wonder if you have ever considered why your "god" does not reveal himself in a similar way to others? Or why he chooses you at the exclusion of others? It would certainly be nice of him to reveal himself to all and end the confusion, don't you think?

If the answer to the above is a matter of how Christ divides and judges, I will have no choice but to lump you with others of your ilk, who believe that "god" will destroy a good chunk of the population for petty reasons. Logic begs an answer to the exclusionary and divisive way that "gods" followers insist on following him. If your answer isn't one of judgement, but that you don't know, I will again have to reject your sincere post as silly and illogical. If it is a matter of accepting your beliefs on "faith", I would call you out on your credulity.

Thats a lot of "ifs" and I dont' assume any to be your answer. But those are the general answers I have heard.

I praise Coco and anyone who is honestly willing to examine the source of their beliefs as to their veracity, whether that source is the bible or other mysterious voices or influences.

58

Current & Former Elders- Will You Help Witnesses - Get Out of the Cult ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

i know ,at first glance it seems like an impossibility .

i really haven't lost my mind here folks.

hear me out on this one.

AllTimeJeff

Now that I resigned and am thus shunned, I have no sway on any current members. I would be happy to do so if I could. I am sort of viewed like the ebola virus in my old home.

62

Jehovah, the God of Justice, Executes the Wicked

by TMS in

the phrases still roll off my tongue, "a god of tender mercies", a god in whom there is no injustice", a god who "protects the little one.".

in spite of those worn out platitides, if i walked in to a court room and saw the name "jehovah god" in metallic letters on the door, i would ask my attorney to make a motion to have the judge recused.

i would prefer to take my judicial chances with any ticket-fixing, bribe-taking, alcoholic, mafia-controlled human judge than face the uneven, irrational and obscene judicial decisions made by god jehovah.. i cite the case of king david of israel.

AllTimeJeff

But where is all the indignation for mans governments and courts?

The indignation is started by people like yourself, as they start threads of their own with the subjects of their own choosing as opposed to hijacking other peoples well thought out threads. You raised some great questions! Why don't you put these questions in a thread of your own, I am sure you will get a great response!

88

Paul's Letters: Part of "All Scripture ..." ?

by compound complex in

greetings, friends:.

a friend - a former jw - gave me thomas paine's the age of reason: being an investigation of true and fabulous theology.

the mind boggles as i begin, haltingly, to fathom what many of you have already learned and shared here on jwd: the authenticity of the bible is seriously in question.

AllTimeJeff

Because SO many put their faith IN THE BIBLE... rather than IN THE ONE about whom the Bible bears witness... they are easily misled due to all of the interpretations, misinterpretations, translations, mistransliterations, tampering, omissions, errors, inclusion, additions, commentaries, contradictions, and versions. I am not judging: I was among these.

I would be remiss to point out that if the main source of knowledge and information of "the one" (Jesus) is clearly compromised, it calls into question Jesus himself! Where do such claims about Jesus being our savior come from? If the source is compromised, then the very idea of him being god is to.

I wouldn't expect you to agree with this AGuest, but as always, the readers of these threads can decide for themselves, as they often do.

Coco, all the best on your discovery. I am on my own quest for spiritual AND intellectual honesty and integrity. It can shake you up sometimes.

62

Jehovah, the God of Justice, Executes the Wicked

by TMS in

the phrases still roll off my tongue, "a god of tender mercies", a god in whom there is no injustice", a god who "protects the little one.".

in spite of those worn out platitides, if i walked in to a court room and saw the name "jehovah god" in metallic letters on the door, i would ask my attorney to make a motion to have the judge recused.

i would prefer to take my judicial chances with any ticket-fixing, bribe-taking, alcoholic, mafia-controlled human judge than face the uneven, irrational and obscene judicial decisions made by god jehovah.. i cite the case of king david of israel.

AllTimeJeff

99% of the public forum are cheer leaders for your point of view. Sounds like the total agreement thing - you dislike about JW's is still a part of the old personality

COOL! I did not know that! Thanks! I always wanted to start my own cult.

62

Jehovah, the God of Justice, Executes the Wicked

by TMS in

the phrases still roll off my tongue, "a god of tender mercies", a god in whom there is no injustice", a god who "protects the little one.".

in spite of those worn out platitides, if i walked in to a court room and saw the name "jehovah god" in metallic letters on the door, i would ask my attorney to make a motion to have the judge recused.

i would prefer to take my judicial chances with any ticket-fixing, bribe-taking, alcoholic, mafia-controlled human judge than face the uneven, irrational and obscene judicial decisions made by god jehovah.. i cite the case of king david of israel.

AllTimeJeff

Hey! TM Merry Christmas and a very happy New Year. Are you angry with God or just generally pissed at the world?

And that answers my question.

TMS, I am not trying to fight any "battles" for you. I think I will let WriteToKnows arguements stand on their own merits in the venue of public opinion.

Peace!

62

Jehovah, the God of Justice, Executes the Wicked

by TMS in

the phrases still roll off my tongue, "a god of tender mercies", a god in whom there is no injustice", a god who "protects the little one.".

in spite of those worn out platitides, if i walked in to a court room and saw the name "jehovah god" in metallic letters on the door, i would ask my attorney to make a motion to have the judge recused.

i would prefer to take my judicial chances with any ticket-fixing, bribe-taking, alcoholic, mafia-controlled human judge than face the uneven, irrational and obscene judicial decisions made by god jehovah.. i cite the case of king david of israel.

AllTimeJeff

I don't spend much time blaming the tooth fairy for my problems.

Thanks, not my question though, but at least I know you don't worship the tooth fairy. Here are my exact questions to you.

Why does it bother YOU that others blame things that could be "make believe"? Are only certain people qualified in your mind to do this? You haven't made sense in any of your posts my friend.
And are you a believer in god, or are you an agnostic/athiest?

Now, try to do something that you havent' done yet on this thread and answer the questions. Otherwise, i will have no choice (based on the evidence) but to believe that you only want to be a jerk and hijack threads for your own amusement. I bet you are a practicing contrarian.