Farkel,
Thats what we call a typo! (believe it or not, I got that question right on the test too.... )
AllTimeJeff
JoinedPosts by AllTimeJeff
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81
What Gilead Taught ME
by AllTimeJeff inthey mean the leadership.
all of this is code for: one who is not ready to really study and accept how the leadership of jehovah's witnesses use the bible to their own self serving means.
but to be fair, jw's teach that most all of these characters refer to the leadership of jehovah's witnesses, the governing body.
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81
What Gilead Taught ME
by AllTimeJeff inthey mean the leadership.
all of this is code for: one who is not ready to really study and accept how the leadership of jehovah's witnesses use the bible to their own self serving means.
but to be fair, jw's teach that most all of these characters refer to the leadership of jehovah's witnesses, the governing body.
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AllTimeJeff
Still in 74
I distinctly remember that when this was stated in our OT class, my brain stopped me, as if to say, "Enough of this crap." I looked around, the rest of my classmates were nodding their heads, writing this down as if Bowen said "2+2=4"
It was at this moment when I realized that I had been lied to and misled. In the middle of Gilead.
I have a NWT bible full of references to old bible charecters = "the faithful and discreet slave with its governing body". That was a phrase used frequently at Gilead.
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81
What Gilead Taught ME
by AllTimeJeff inthey mean the leadership.
all of this is code for: one who is not ready to really study and accept how the leadership of jehovah's witnesses use the bible to their own self serving means.
but to be fair, jw's teach that most all of these characters refer to the leadership of jehovah's witnesses, the governing body.
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AllTimeJeff
On Elijah and Elisha. This was our reference material before our test in 2 Kings 1. The wording is a little convoluted, but thats because Fred Franz wrote this. (yes, I had 3 higer ups confirm he came up with this...)
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w658/15pp.493-495pars.7-12TurningtoJehovah***7
The major fulfillment of this prophecy of Malachi takes place when the Lord Jesus returns in kingdom power and glory. Jesus referred to this advent of the Son of man in kingdom power, linking it with the transfiguration vision, given in the presence of Peter, James and John, when in a high mountain. (Mark 9:1-8; Matt. 17:1-9) Elijah figured in that vision, indicating that there would be a future and larger fulfillment of Malachi 4:5, 6. Since this vision was given after the death of John the Baptist, it is evident that John himself did not completely fulfill the picture.
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Who, then, is the modern "Elijah the prophet" entrusted with sounding the warning of the "great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah," also with the work of turning back the hearts? Jesus indicated the answer in the prophecy already mentioned, when he spoke of the "faithful and discreet slave," who is dispensing the spiritual "food at the proper time," and who is therefore appointed by the Lord "over all his belongings." (Matt. 24:45-47) This faithful slave class, the anointed remnant, is today standing out distinct. Like Elijah and John the Baptist, it fearlessly declared God’s judgments against all false worship till the enemies interrupted matters in 1918. However, in 1919 there was a revival of the work of turning people to God and declaring the oncoming destruction, first of "Babylon the Great," then of Satan’s visible political system at Armageddon.—Rev. 18:21; 19:11-16.9
This modern Elijah class has thus been doing a work of turning back the hearts. We have already traced the preliminary work done on behalf of the "other sheep" down to 1935, including those particular "sheep" pictured by the prodigal son who had wasted earlier opportunities of serving Jehovah. What has been done since then? In order to appreciate this we must be careful to look at the original prophetic pattern of Elijah in its entirety. This brings into the picture another prophet, though this did not indicate any fault or failure on Elijah’s part. When commissioning Elijah to anoint certain ones to execute His judgments against Baal worship, God said: "Elisha . . . you should anoint as prophet in place of you." Elijah promptly did so and, as a result, Elisha dropped what he was doing and "went following Elijah and began to minister to him." He thus had the advantage of many years of training under Elijah’s direction.—1 Ki. 19:15-18, 21.10
Do you recall Elijah’s last miracle? It was the dividing of the waters of the river Jordan by striking them with his official garment, enabling him and Elisha to pass over eastward on dry ground. (2 Ki. 2:8) As a result, the waters below the division flowed on down to the lifeless Dead Sea, but the waters above that spot were held back. Similarly with the Elijah class today. "Waters . . . mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues." (Rev. 17:15) An earthly class of people had been foreseen for many years and members thereof were appearing in growing numbers, but it was not until 1935 that the actual division of symbolic waters and the work of gathering the "other sheep" began to take place, as already mentioned. Those gathered were held back from the downward course leading to destruction. Jehovah used the Elijah class to commence this dividing of the symbolic waters. It got off to a good start, and was carried forward by the Elisha class.11 Do you recall Elisha’s first miracle? It was the same as Elijah’s last one, using the official garment that had fallen from Elijah for the same purpose, enabling Elisha to recross the riverbed dryshod. Only now he was alone, except that Jehovah was backing him up. In between those two miracles another notable one occurred, when Elijah ascended to the heavens in a windstorm after being separated from Elisha by a fiery war chariot and horses. That prophetically pictured the end of the work by the Elijah class and the continuation of the same work, only intensified, by the Elisha class. The historical events occurring early in the war year of 1942 marked the fulfillment of this changeover. Just prior to that time, in the midst of World War II, it seemed as if the witness work might be coming to its end. The outlook was very uncertain. On January 8, 1942, the president of the Watch Tower Society, J. F. Rutherford, died. Did the work stop?—2 Ki. 2:11-14.
12 To the contrary, the Elisha class, made up of the remaining members of the anointed remnant, immediately carried on with the same work of dividing the symbolic waters, even as Elisha did in a literal way. The same Watch Tower Society was used as a publishing agency, but with a new elected president. In the same issue of TheWatchtower that announced President Rutherford’s death, there appeared the leading article entitled "Final Gathering," based on Jeremiah 16:16, telling of an intensive fishing and hunting for those who might yet be recovered. In the late summer of 1942 a three-day convention was held by Jehovah’s witnesses at Cleveland, Ohio, with repeat programs in many cities of other countries. The main theme was based on Isaiah, chapters 59 and 60, bidding God’s people to "Arise . . . shed forth light," resulting in a great flock of peoples coming to the light, "flying just like a cloud." (Isa. 60:1-3, 8; Rev. 7:9) No doubt about it! The Elisha class recognized their commission and were losing no time!
It goes without saying that Knorr took office in 1942, when the article says the "Elisha" work started.
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81
What Gilead Taught ME
by AllTimeJeff inthey mean the leadership.
all of this is code for: one who is not ready to really study and accept how the leadership of jehovah's witnesses use the bible to their own self serving means.
but to be fair, jw's teach that most all of these characters refer to the leadership of jehovah's witnesses, the governing body.
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AllTimeJeff
Halcyon
What was offensive to me was seeing 3rd worlders who are so trusting not have the resources to investigate. So many in Africa come from a superstitious background as it is. Even the Christian churches can be very different from America and Europe. To have these people treat you like you are a prophet (no exaggeration) and want the "special training" that I had received made me very ill at ease.
One reason why JW's continue to make strides in Africa is the precise reason why they fall behind in developed lands. Access to information is scarce (compared to the West) The populace is more conditioned to believe with smaller evidence (compared to the West) That is why that growth has been steady in Africa (compared to the West)
Gilead training as they told us during our first week was not going to be very helpful to those we came in contact with, at the congregation or in the minsitry. It was to "build our faith", which was code for "really going to indoctrinate you with all our BS stuff". It's a high risk, high reward way of indoctrination, Gilead that is. If they pick those who are pioneering and very zealous and somehow get them to see the bible as the Da Vinci code (if you will) that is a direct road map to "Christs brothers", the GB, then you will go anywhere and do anything that they ask.
Conversley, it had the opposite effect on me. Their training backfired because I knew there was no way that the presidency of the WTBTS could ever have been god ordained. Subsequent logical questions pulled back the curtain from the wizard.
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81
What Gilead Taught ME
by AllTimeJeff inthey mean the leadership.
all of this is code for: one who is not ready to really study and accept how the leadership of jehovah's witnesses use the bible to their own self serving means.
but to be fair, jw's teach that most all of these characters refer to the leadership of jehovah's witnesses, the governing body.
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AllTimeJeff
Every now and then when I visit this forum, I feel an obligation to tell what I can and be supportive. Of course, my JW experience, esp the last 3 years of it leading up to Gilead, going to Africa, coming back and resigning from the group, has absolutely drained me to the point that I contribute when I can, but it isn't very much. It is very tiring for me, but also cathartic at the same time to come here and share what I can.
It is in that spirit that I write this now, a desire to demystify JW's, those who leave, and the current doctrine that this group teaches, esp for those who are newly investigating this group for their own reasons.
I was in the 119th class of Gilead in 2005. From the time I graduated, it was another year or so before I resigned. In that time, all the pieces came together.
JW's are taught and conditioned to respect their visible leaders, even though they pay lip service to Jesus as their leader. I got to see the 'pecking' order, and after I graduated, briefly joined it. My status shot up to an all time high. I was respected, even loved, because I went to Gilead and went to Africa. I thought that would be nice, although when I actually went through it, it really offended me.
Sorry for the above rambling/prelude. The whole point of this is how JW's use and understand the bible. You see, on a very fundamental, foundational level, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses (GB) don't use the bible the way JW's teach it at the door. I learned at Gilead that for the "mature" ones who "dine on solid spiritual food" (i.e. the highly indoctrinated zealots), the bible is all about "Christs brothers". Please note that when the Watchtower says "Christs brothers" they mean the GB. They mean the leadership. They mean, be obediant to us, or you will be diobediant to Jehovah... and his son, whats his name?? Jesus!
It is little wonder that this is the last thing one learns as they start studying with JW's. It starts with paradise, living forever, Jehovah, Jesus, living a moral life, loving the congregation, replacing your family with the congregation, THEN, after you have developed some level of infatuation with this group and have undergone a sufficient amount of love bombing, you are introduced to the highly doubtable concepts of congregation authority, how Jehovah mysteriously rules through Jesus and this group of men Jesus inspected in 1918 and found them superior to every other Christian group on the planet.
If you buy it, you want in, you get baptized. But remember, you are still new, still a babe, still "immature". All of this is code for: One who is not ready to really study and accept how the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses use the bible to their own self serving means.
It means you are still a babe to the fact that JW's really teach that practically ALL "faithful" OT charecters from Noah and Abraham through Elijah and Elishah and David to Hezekiah are prophetic of the Presidents of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. The one I refer to the most is as an answer to one of the questions on a Gilead test, Elijah prophetically pointed to Judge Rutherford, Elisha pointed to N H Knorr. That is my favorite, that is when I realized I was mislead. But to be fair, JW's teach that most all of these characters refer to the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Governing Body. (GB)
"Mature" JW's is a misnomer. It has nothing to do with maturity. That is code for "willingness to believe whatever you are taught, and to follow whatever the GB says, even if they change back and forth on doctrine in a god-dishonering fasion." Mature ones are impatient with the immature for questioning what they are taught. Mature ones become elders, ministerial servants and pioneers more quickly because they blindly obey. To question, esp after any period of time elapsing after baptism, means you are "immature".
Of course, this is all so self serving within the group. Another layer of indoctrination and peer pressure to keep everyone in line. Gilead "taught" me this. I learned that within the GB world view, it is scriptural to be nutty about anything the WT says, but to leave your brother cold and miserable and naked if they disagree with a teaching or doctrine.
I know that there are some who don't and won't believe what I just said. That is their right. There will always be some people who are susceptible to high control groups and cults. But to those who were raised as JW's, to those who for some reason accepted and bought a bill of goods that they found wasn't real, they should know the truth about "the truth". They should know how cynically the bible is used by the leadership of this group to their own ends.
They should know that to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, the bible isn't about you. It isn't about Jehovah. It isn't about Jesus. Its all about them, the Governing Body, "Christs brothers", the Faithful and Discreet Slave. It's all about them, for them, and it is a sham. They are as prophetic as dead skin. THAT is what I learned at Gilead. THAT is what the bible is all about to the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses.
I welcome all who come on this forum, those in pain, those trying to improve after leaving, whether that be voluntarily or involuntarily. I don't comment much when you first come on, but my thoughts and best wishes are with you all. -
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No field svc reports in OKM - a possible reason?
by sir82 inmaybe i'm being influenced by all the "conspiracy nutters" on this board, but what if.... ...what if the society is planning some sort of huge "bombshell" in the next 2-4 years?
this bombshell, they expect, would cause maybe 20, 30, even 50% of the jws to leave.
it has been speculated here, and i tend to agree, that the society would rather have 3 or 4 million fiercely loyal adherents than the current mix of 7 million or so zealots, lukewarm hangers-on, slackers, and inactive "ones".. seeing a precipitous drop in the number of publishers in a short period of time would have a devastating effect on morale for even those most-rabid zealots.
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AllTimeJeff
It's impossible to say what is in the pipeline, but it is also impossible to ignore the changes that have already come and are coming.
Losch has said several times that there are "updates" that need to be made to various understandings. They are probably giving these changes in limited doses for good reasons.
This is an entirely new GB. Even Jaracz is outnumbered. Who knows what they have up their sleeve.
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announcement at service meeting last night
by isaacaustin inlast nite at my parents service meeting an announcement was made regarding the new triple meeting.
they said that no one can go over their allotted time at all during the tms.
if the bell rings you are to stop immediately- not even finishing your sentence.
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AllTimeJeff
This sounds like a rouge elder/elder body. Something that severe would be with a letter. This wouldn't be the first time an elder got chewed out for overtime meetings by the CO and respond with an over-reaction.
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The legal implications of a Watchtower power struggle.
by DT inin the united states, the courts have refused to hear cases about disfellowshippings or shunning issues because of reluctance to interfere with church law.
this has protected the watchtower society legally and given them wide latitude in how they abuse their members.. i wonder if this could also work to their disadvantage.
a disfellowshipping is a simple case of one person against many, so it can safely be assumed that the many are the ones enforcing church law.
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AllTimeJeff
As far as recent examples in other religions, several diocese of the Episcopalian Church in the US voted to break away and join the S American cone of the worldwide Anglican community. They are former Episcopalians who are now called Anglicans. They no longer recognize the Archbiship of Canterberry. (sp) There is going to be legal challenges on which churches that broke away and who they belong to. However, the breakaway Anglicans have already voted in leadership for their group.
If you were to use this example as a mold, then there are several things missing, most notably, the fact that JW's have never claimed to belong to a broader community of believers in the world. While we all know that Russell got his start by morphing from 7th Day Adventists, these two factions would never join for a variety of reasons. There simply is no place to go. Add to this that in the US, all KH's have been pretty much signed over to the WTBTS, you can see that the governing body is aware that this could happen and it is on their mind.
The one thing that could happen is a power struggle, reminiscient of the Rutherford takevover in 1917. Because the legitimacy of the GB has been established over the decades, it would take a widesweeping movement to pull it off. The fact is that since the GB is the final authority of JW dogma, they can choose to change, or even ignore their own dogma and bylaws. To challenge that in my opinion would be difficult.
The benefits of course would be great to those of us who know that JW's are a cult. It would greatly dillute the power, faith and zeal of its core believers. It would likely get more of the real history, the dirty laundry so to speak, out to where the rank and file could have greater access. If it didn't start a different movement altogether, it would likely weaken it to a point that it couldn't recover from in its present form. I am all for that!
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Goodbye to JWD ... hello to JWN !
by Simon inas i announced some time ago, jwd as it is will not continue .... ... but .... it's clear from people's comments that they do like the site and many would like it or something else like it to continue.. one issue was the forum software that was self-developed and not really in a good state to hand-over to anyone but i've been working on that and can now reveal the first release of what will probably be called jwn (son of jwd):.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/.
it is still work-in-progress so not all features are enabled yet but it will allow you to browse the site in a similar way to this one and it is pointing at the same database (although because of the way the caching works, new posts made on this site won't appear immediately).
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AllTimeJeff
Looks cool. Glad to see that this site will go on in some form.
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My New Blog
by AllTimeJeff ini named it "superstition's antidote".
http://antidotesuperstition.blogspot.com/.
it won't be exclusively about jehovah's witnesses, but it will frequently have my take on this fruity little cult.
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AllTimeJeff
Gopher
I tried to respond to your PM, but I don't know if it made it through...