AllTimeJeff

Joined

• started 234 topics
• posted 6,022 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by AllTimeJeff

• 
  37

  Who is Going to Cedar Point Apostafest this Summer?

  by jamiebowers in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am soooooooo excited!

  this is only 100 miles from my house, and i'm going!

  it will be historic!!!!!!!!!!!.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Hmmm. When is it?
• 
  15

  The Events That Caused Me to Start Pioneering (way back when...)

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was toying with the idea of re-writing my lifestory.

  frankly, it would be long.

  so i will just do some random experiences instead.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  1975 was coming

  Farkel

  1995 was coming for me. Of course, I was an idiot and didn't realize what the generation change meant at the time. I was in my own little world around Planet ex Wife.

  1975, subject de jour for JWN. :)

  Here is my somewhat long story about why I started pioneering. I did it out of a humble and sincere desire to help people find true spirituality, comfort and a loving relationship with their Grand Creator.

  I wish I could say the same thing. I was more involved with how my JW community and (ex) wife saw me. I started to care about people, toward my late 20's. Until then, I was pretty much an asshole on plenty of levels.
• 
  71

  Just got ahold of "secret elders meetings" notes.

  by aquagirl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  cant say how,but i am in possession of about 10 years worth of elders meetings notes.financial info,personal lists,signed letters etc.disfellowshipping meeting minutes,the works.it is unbelieveable.some of the note are "investigate so and so,she was seen at a movie,talk to sister so and so about her weight,investigate the matter between so and so and so and so etc.

  letters from circuit servant visits w/recommendatons.anyone got any ideas?there are even minutes of a meeting in which some of the elders "had words"...all in glorious initialed and signed paper.numbers,names,contributions..what should i do with this "blessing from hohoba?

  "lol.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Hey aqua

  I just read Farkels simple remark, and I think it bears some further thought.

  There is a ton of crap as well as legit information on JW's on the internet. I have no doubt that you hit the motherload.

  Unless your notes are attributed, and unless you take the time to learn what mentioning names on the internet could potentially have on you, then at the very least, it might be best to give it more thought. Maybe brainstorm it like you are doing here now.

  Names make it legit. The other option is redacting all names, which protects you. Doing that also takes away a bit of the documents legitimacy.

  Just a thought. I for one as a former elder would LOVE to read it just for curiosity's sake. Not that it matters to me, I am a bit of a gossip. ;)
• 
  15

  The Events That Caused Me to Start Pioneering (way back when...)

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was toying with the idea of re-writing my lifestory.

  frankly, it would be long.

  so i will just do some random experiences instead.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Hi there. I was toying with the idea of re-writing my lifestory. Frankly, it would be long. So I will just do some random experiences instead. (maybe I will delete this before I post it... lol)

  What got me pioneering? Well, I was in the Hollywood Fla area shortly after I was married to the ex. 19 years old, new MS, made the accounts servant because no one wanted it, and starting a new job, living in 2 rooms attached to a real apt attached to a house that a sister owned. (a very nice sister as I recall). Oh, and my ex was mentally unstable. She had an eating disorder and actually kept it hidden from me for the first year before she eventually confronted it and stopped. Long story, I will stop on that one here. Suffice to say, it was more then any 19 year old should have to deal with. After all, that should have been my freshman year in college.

  I had went to Builders Square, willing to accept any work I could get. But because the ex was insistent that we pioneer together, I asked for part time work. At the time, the manager said that he was only hiring full time, but he was impressed with my vocabulary, partly because I used the word "bombastic" in a sentence. He loved that. At the time, neither of us knew that this came from a lifetime of training in using the english language to bullshit, courtesy of the Theocratic Ministry School... but I digress.

  I got the job, part time. It was perfect, it wasn't fulltime, and it had no benefits. HAD to be Jehovah telling me to pioneer. At least thats what the ex thought.

  Not me. I was beginning a lifelong adult experience of being worn out. This was the first time I could ever officially remember being... mentally and emotionally tired. The thought of pioneering while she was battling an eating disorder was a lot for my head. I suggested I wait a year.

  Holy cow did the SHIT HIT THE FAN! I tried 2 family WT studies, and both times, she was so unreasonable. The 2nd time, she yelled at me because we didn't look up each scripture and read them together while allowing her time to write them verbatim in the margins of the WT. I just looked at her and that was it. We didn't have a family WT study for 3 years. Never did more then 3 in a row as I recall.

  But then, after all of that, she started talking about why I didn't sign up to pioneer. I recall trying to use logical grown up reasons with her, like living on one income (she couldn't work at the time due to her immigrant status) and my responsibilities there, to which I got the "you don't have enough faith in Jehovah do you?"

  That statement started this whole little experience. I just remembered today that this is was the first time she accused me of having no faith when it suited her. The 2nd time was in Cameroon after I was attacked and told her I needed to come home to the States. Same response over 10 years later, I didn't have faith in god, which evidentally inconvenienced her life goals.

  A life lesson here folks, if only I could talk to 19 year old ATJeff, I would tell him. "You tell that crazy bitch that a job pays for the bills. If you can get insurance, it will pay for the therapy she desperately needs. Stick to your guns!"

  I didn't of course. I pussied out and signed up to pioneer with her. Official start date: April 1 1994*. I would be categorized as a full time pioneer of some sort from this time until my resignation in 2006.

  What I didn't have was the ability to be honest with myself. Of course, I loved her a ton. And at the time, I was thinking that I wanted to be like most elders I saw, set an example, maybe be a CO one day, after we got on our feet and I could start pioneering.

  But I lacked the ability to be honest with myself. Under all kinds of pressure, this cult produced people that I allowed to influence me. And I bear responsibility for that. As I look back to what got me started, sure, the cult is culpable. My ex was nuts, and the cult fed her mania. It allowed her to deal with her personal demons by giving her so much preaching to do that she could ignore her mental and emotional issues for the sake of Jehovah. I will never forgive her for sacrificing her marriage on the altar of full time service to the WTBTS or for wanting me to rot rather then recover in Africa.

  And I let her do it, because I loved her.

  But, its easy to see that now. Don't you just love experience?

  Anyway, that is what got me started in pioneering. I wanted to be a CO, but the ex had other plans. She wanted to be a missionary and go overseas. Thanks to that damn Gilead video "To the Ends of the Earth", she got all the energy she needed. She could have worn a nice nighty to seduce me, instead, she used this video. More on that another time.....

  *Edit: It was 1994, not 1995.
• 
  112

  The Only Real "Take" You Can Have on the Date of Jerusalems Destruction

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have a new take on the 587/586 "controversy".

  this is of course, speaking for me over 3 years after i left.

  i realize that if you are first leaving, this is a big deal.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  "the Great Pyramid is Jehovah's "Witness".

  Wow, more proof that Russell was ahead of Rutherford.
• 
  71

  Just got ahold of "secret elders meetings" notes.

  by aquagirl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  cant say how,but i am in possession of about 10 years worth of elders meetings notes.financial info,personal lists,signed letters etc.disfellowshipping meeting minutes,the works.it is unbelieveable.some of the note are "investigate so and so,she was seen at a movie,talk to sister so and so about her weight,investigate the matter between so and so and so and so etc.

  letters from circuit servant visits w/recommendatons.anyone got any ideas?there are even minutes of a meeting in which some of the elders "had words"...all in glorious initialed and signed paper.numbers,names,contributions..what should i do with this "blessing from hohoba?

  "lol.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  You know, so many elders keep personal notes. They are the most damning things. Elders who write notes to remind themselves to counsel a sister on their appearance or odor, which brother to blackball.

  That could potentially be helpful in helping others to see that dark, sadistic side of some elders. (I never kept notes like that.

  AllTimeJeff, of the non note taking elder class
• 
  29

  had second thoughts about divorcing my JW wife...

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just this week after being separated a little over two months....and funny cause i just got a pm from a newbie about what it is like to leave all...including your wife or husband....anyway, i spent the day with my wife and we talked about it...it is so sad....even though we are very different in natures...i again concluded there is enough in common to be happy and grow old and avoid the very high costs to both of a divorce....except we just cant figure out how to have totally separate friends and social lives....that is kinda big and may still be the deal breaker....soooooo frustrating and infuriating..........oompa.

  here was my reply to the newbie pm:.

  leaving was terribly hard as my wife is a wonderful and attractive person...my 22 year old son is also a good dub...and my parents are not real old yet and he is a hardcore elder.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Hey oompa. I wanted to share some other thoughts, hope they help...

  After I left, I had discussions with her on a possibloe reconciliation. Her rules included no "apostate" material out in plain view, as that would be "a threat to my faith". (I wish I could have recorded the noise my head and heart made at the same time to hear those words)

  She wondered if she could ever trust me again. She said I would have to earn back her trust, and that Jehovah and the organization was what was most important, even though she valued our marriage and would have worked to keep it together.

  ...and I considered that. I considered living a lie again.

  Every couple and circumstance is different. When I finally said once and for all "No way", it was the realization that her terms were JW terms and I would have been tacitly supporting that.

  I wanted in the worst way for her to love me simply for me. It wasn't possible.

  In spite of that, in spite of all the logic, of all the good reasons, of knowing with 100% clarity why I left her, it still hurts. It always will. Have I fantasized about a reunion? Sure, and it will never happen, nor do I really want it. I only want the comfort that for me, my 20's weren't an almost total waste of time. But living in the past is a poor balm when your future requires you to heal so that you can move forward.

  I still remember some fun times. We had a unique chemistry. I considered us the David and Maddie of JW pioneer couples. (from the old show Moonlighting if you didn't get that reference) Witty, playful fighting, it was fun for a while. But it was an immature, retarded relationship caused by living a JW lifestyle, and required two adults in total possesion of themselves in order to make it right.

  It takes one to mess up a relationship, two to fix it. One person by themself can never repair a relationship. However, one person can soberly make the decision that the future doesn't need to be hijacked by the past.

  You know my biggest regret through all of this? That the most I have ever reached out to people were through these internet boards. I am just now getting out with real people in the community. It's really been a lonely hell. I hope that you try to involve yourself with other people sooner then I did.

  Thanks for listening.... As always, feel free to chuck all of this if it doesn't fit.
• 
  19

  Trotting Out Old Light and Making it New Again- 1975

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wts is great at rebooting old doctrines and rewriting their own history.

  they need the members to feel that armageddon is imminent, so i have a proposal for the gb members reading this forum.. .

  when the end failed to come in 1975, wts offered their explanation that eve was created some time after adam, and that some time passed before she and adam sinned.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  When the end failed to come in 1975, WTS offered their explanation that Eve was created some time after Adam, and that some time passed before she and Adam sinned. It must have been more time than they originally calculated.

  Wally Liverance taught this on a whiteboard when explaining 1975 in our 1st day of class! Hillarious. My Spidey sense didn't go off on that one. I looked at that whiteboard and went "Oh, thats interesting." Then I went on looking for my next ego stroke.

  It will be 35 years this year since Eve sinned according to this bullshit explanation. What it means (since it has never been officially disavowed) is that they still believe in 1975, just an adjusted view of it that never ends. Yes, thats right, Eve sinned, and 35 years later, Adam did to. Eve kept that apple for at least 35 years and showed it to Adam, who was so tempted at the old withered rotten fruit that he couldn't help himself. In the meantime, Adam didn't touch his wife or tried to procreate.

  I am sorry, I lost my yardstick wading through this shit.
• 
  107

  1975 For Deniers

  by Farkel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1975 for deniers.

  most of today's jws were not members in 1975 or in the 9 years prior to 1975, so they were not eyewitnesses to what really went on during that period.

  i was a pioneer in that period, and i was an eyewitness to what went on.. those jws who are still active today and who were around in that period will typically say it was the "brothers" who "ran ahead of jehovah" and "read more into" the 1975 prediction than what was actually stated.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  I wouldn't be alive if it weren't for 1975.

  In piecing together how my parents got married and *boom!* there I was, I learned some interesting facts. (dad was 25, mom almost 19 at the time of their marriage)

  Dad led a rather hellish and abused childhood although he never talked much about it. His past is still a big blob of mystery to me in many respects. I do know that he ran away at 16, became a hippie, lived in many cities as a hippie all through the 60's. He was contacted by an elder in Tennessee in 68 or 69, and after 2 weeks of being convinced hellfire didn't exist (he was a Southern Baptist), he was baptized at the Astrodome in Houston Texas in 1969. He still smoked (they pulled the rug out from under him on that in a couple of years) and was most definitely caught up in the 75 rush. He admitted as much smoking a cigerette as he was contemplating getting reinstated around 1984. (the year, not the book).

  My maternal grandmother died in 1967 suddenly, due to a misdiagnosis at a hospital, and Mom was never the same. (she was in her early teens at the time) She went through her teen years lost and without much love or guidance. So when Dad started courting her (I know, you roll your eyes, but it was the the South, and it was JW's, and you dated that young....) well, it was a match made in JW hell. My Mom and Dad, two lost souls that no one wanted to care for found each other in the contructs of a cult and decided to get married in 1973.

  In 1975, my younger brother was conceived. In 1976, my brother was born, Dad started smoking again and went inactive and was lost. He wrote a letter disassociating himself in 1979 because he was smoking. (I guess he kept it hidden for a while. Wonder why Bill Hutter?)

  Due to Mom and Dad wanting to be a happy family with my brother and I, Dad got reinstated in 1986, after being turned down the first time by the asshole elders in Tennessee. (I will name one. How ya doing Bill Hutter? You mercinary idiot of an elder!)

  My point is, truth is stranger then fiction. 2 emotionally broke people tried to fix themselves in the wake of a cults last bold attempt at prophecy. 1975 came and went, and everyone involved was never the same.

  If it weren't for that, Mom and Dad I am sure wouldn't have been married, and the random pieces of DNA that became me would have never made me a growing zygote.

  I was born in 1974, so I obviously know nothing of the build up. I am just reporting the aftermath, and the occasional times both my parents let their guard down enough to say that 1975 was real.

  Btw, Dad is still in I guess. Mom's out. I wish she would read here sometimes.... Maybe she does... Hi Mom!
• 
  95

  For those who researched 607...

  by AwSnap in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did you use wt dates as well as things found from a secular perspective?

  if a witness was researching the 607 dates strictly from watchtower info, would it still become clear they are wrong?

  or does the wtbs *make* the dates add up...?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  scholar is the best and sneakiest fake this board has ever seen. Why anyone actually takes him seriously, is beyond me. I know. Someone lurking may not know he is a fake, so you have to do what you have to do.

  I have to admit though, scholar also has one of the best senses of ironic humor I have ever seen.

  Farkel, that thought has crossed my mind several times. I couldn't invent a better persona. It's sort of like a human pinata isn't it...