Posts by AllTimeJeff

Yeah, there is some truth worth considering, how Jehovah used the lies of Rutherford to keep a religion going that he intended to have the real truth revealed to them as increasing light. Like the 1975 rush. Great amount of truth there. Until it was disavowed.

Dude, you can chase your tail all day, but the fact is JW's have got so much wrong, what leg do they have to stand on?

And its not like THEY or JEHOVAH are asking YOU to defend them. YOU are doing it because you are bored.

Sort of like I am responding to you because I am bored.

Here's some catnip. Go roll around in it.

64

Twisting Scripture vs A Literal Reading

by AllTimeJeff in

knowing that passions run deep on this matter, i have what i believe to be a very simple premise for a discussion of how to read the bible.. terry has labored over the last couple of months to demonstrate (in my view, conclusively) that the bible is far from unaltered, and often mistranslated.

these facts, inconvenient as they might be for believers, are nonetheless, a problem for those who claim that the bible is the word of god.. this is not what i wish to discuss... rather..... jehovah's witnesses come from a tradition of "reading in" or "adding meaning" to the scriptures.

no one jw outside of the governing body is allowed to do this.. but why is it necesarry?.

AllTimeJeff

Yeah EoM. Thats my point. The Pharisees aren't around. Looks safe to me.

31

Shawshank Redemption and leaving Jehovah's Witnesses

by AllTimeJeff in

i doubt very seriously that i am the first to make the connection of exiting jw's and much of the movie "shawshank redemption".. frequently, the injustice that many experience as baptized members of jehovah's witnesses cause them to want to resign, to leave.. but it is a prison of sorts.

if you leave and announce it, you are shunned.

and no one will talk to you.. shawshank is such a remarkable movie to me for its simple, underlying theme; finding meaning in our suffering, and never stopping the fight against injustice, esp against our own freedom.. the best part of the movie is the line "you can either get busy living, or get busy dying.".

AllTimeJeff

I doubt very seriously that I am the first to make the connection of exiting JW's and much of the movie "Shawshank Redemption".

Frequently, the injustice that many experience as baptized members of Jehovah's Witnesses cause them to want to resign, to leave.

But it is a prison of sorts. If you leave and announce it, you are shunned. And no one will talk to you.

Shawshank is such a remarkable movie to me for its simple, underlying theme; finding meaning in our suffering, and never stopping the fight against injustice, esp against our own freedom.

The best part of the movie is the line "You can either get busy living, or get busy dying."

Its a choice we all must face.

I like Red's narration of Andy, when he finally escaped through the sewer and said "Andy Dufresne - who crawled through a river of shit and came out clean on the other side."

I used that quote on another thread, but the thought makes me happy. Because like me, many of us here had to crawl through a bunch of shit to leave JW's.

And on the other side, we came out clean.

That is a point that I don't think should be lost on any lurker here. It sucks, it stinks to leave, and frankly, you shouldn't have to haul your ass through WT shit to get out of the place.

Sometimes, we can't help where we find ourselves, we can only proceed from where we find ourselves.

Andy Dufresne proceeded from where he found himself. I hope other JW's who know they should leave will consider that as well. It sucks, it stinks, but its also honest living, and it is clean.

Love you all. Good night.

64

Twisting Scripture vs A Literal Reading

by AllTimeJeff in

knowing that passions run deep on this matter, i have what i believe to be a very simple premise for a discussion of how to read the bible.. terry has labored over the last couple of months to demonstrate (in my view, conclusively) that the bible is far from unaltered, and often mistranslated.

these facts, inconvenient as they might be for believers, are nonetheless, a problem for those who claim that the bible is the word of god.. this is not what i wish to discuss... rather..... jehovah's witnesses come from a tradition of "reading in" or "adding meaning" to the scriptures.

no one jw outside of the governing body is allowed to do this.. but why is it necesarry?.

AllTimeJeff

Thanks for that! lol....

64

Twisting Scripture vs A Literal Reading

by AllTimeJeff in

knowing that passions run deep on this matter, i have what i believe to be a very simple premise for a discussion of how to read the bible.. terry has labored over the last couple of months to demonstrate (in my view, conclusively) that the bible is far from unaltered, and often mistranslated.

these facts, inconvenient as they might be for believers, are nonetheless, a problem for those who claim that the bible is the word of god.. this is not what i wish to discuss... rather..... jehovah's witnesses come from a tradition of "reading in" or "adding meaning" to the scriptures.

no one jw outside of the governing body is allowed to do this.. but why is it necesarry?.

AllTimeJeff

Hell Outlaw, what do you think I have been doing tonight?

Cheers bud!

49

How did you find the strength to leave?

by SAHARA in

to all of you exjws, i'm sure you've been asked this question one way or the other many times and i'm sure the answer is different for many of you, i'd like to know directly from you never having a chance to hear or read many exjw's answers to this.

knowing that you would be cut off from your family and friends and other consequences for your decision to leave, how did you ever get the strength to do it?

i mean really, i find it fascinating to know that there are so many of you who were at one time very devout, if not at the very least loyal to one of the most successful mind-contol organizations ever who believed all if not most of what the society taught and still you found the courage to risk everything once you accepted that it isn't what it claims to be.

AllTimeJeff

I don't think it was an act of courage per se, but a decision made courageously.

Yes, I did cross the Rubicon in my mind. I knew that my friends would no longer be able to talk to me. I weighed that heavily, knowing how I would be talked about.... All the games and mind traps the GB puts in your head.

But I adopted a simple mantra for me, and it has worked out rather well. It is better to suffer in honesty then to wallow in dishonesty.

I have frequently commented here that there is no easy, dignified way to leave the cult. It is messy, stinky, sort of like the prison escape in Shawshank Redemption.

I saw that well after my JW exit, but of course, the most famous line from that movie resonates to any JW at the crossroads as to whether to leave or not.

"You can get busy living, or get busy dying."

For JW's considering leaving, here is a better quote to consider, and its damn realistic too (from Shawshank)

"Andy Dufresne (insert your name here) - who crawled through a river of shit and came out clean on the other side."

20

PROVE these scriptures unrelated - also, EXPERIMENT: do you see a message here??

by EndofMysteries in

whether you believe in the bible or not, these are not completely separate books with nothing related.. this is the tip of the iceberg, but i wanted to demonstrate why i believe there is a deep hidden message in the bible, and that its books are linked.. does the bible itself reveal who the king of the north is?

(the whole world is trying to 'guess' and 'interpret' and treat all prophecies as individual).

(warning: this could set off a chain reaction and your searching the entire bible linking and getting better understanding of many prophecies ;) ).

AllTimeJeff

EoM, your words speak for themselves.

64

Twisting Scripture vs A Literal Reading

by AllTimeJeff in

knowing that passions run deep on this matter, i have what i believe to be a very simple premise for a discussion of how to read the bible.. terry has labored over the last couple of months to demonstrate (in my view, conclusively) that the bible is far from unaltered, and often mistranslated.

these facts, inconvenient as they might be for believers, are nonetheless, a problem for those who claim that the bible is the word of god.. this is not what i wish to discuss... rather..... jehovah's witnesses come from a tradition of "reading in" or "adding meaning" to the scriptures.

no one jw outside of the governing body is allowed to do this.. but why is it necesarry?.

AllTimeJeff

Knowing that passions run deep on this matter, I have what I believe to be a very simple premise for a discussion of HOW to read the bible.

Terry has labored over the last couple of months to demonstrate (in my view, conclusively) that the bible is far from unaltered, and often mistranslated. These facts, inconvenient as they might be for believers, are nonetheless, a problem for those who claim that the bible IS the word of god.

This is not what I wish to discuss... Rather....

Jehovah's Witnesses come from a tradition of "reading in" or "adding meaning" to the scriptures. No one JW outside of the Governing Body is allowed to do this.

But why is it necesarry?

Because according to the GB, Satan, though not as powerful as Jehovah, is powerful enough to hide and obscure the meanings of God's own inspired word.

Thats the basic JW view in a nutshell.

For many other Christian religions and views, it all comes down to semantics, tradition, and interpretation. On those "testy" scriptures that often cause arguements, both sides will often say that Jesus and Paul talked of not twisting either scripture or its meaning....

Which leads me to ask, isn't it possible to "twist" the meaning of a scripture if one is determined to NOT read a scripture literally?

Isn't reading the bible literally the only way to NOT twist scripture?

Why can't individuals read the bible like any other book and draw their own conclusions, whether their conclusions are from a literal view, or, if they seek to attach symbolic meaning to passages. (not unheard of, as other works of literature frequently inspire the same kind of symbolic introspection.)

In short, my opinion is that the only remedy to the "twisted scripture" problem is to simply take each book, with each verse, and take it literally. This puts it in context, and gives less control to superstitious attempts at transforming seemingly harmless passages into something that seems as relevent as CNN.

Discuss.....

20

PROVE these scriptures unrelated - also, EXPERIMENT: do you see a message here??

by EndofMysteries in

whether you believe in the bible or not, these are not completely separate books with nothing related.. this is the tip of the iceberg, but i wanted to demonstrate why i believe there is a deep hidden message in the bible, and that its books are linked.. does the bible itself reveal who the king of the north is?

(the whole world is trying to 'guess' and 'interpret' and treat all prophecies as individual).

(warning: this could set off a chain reaction and your searching the entire bible linking and getting better understanding of many prophecies ;) ).

AllTimeJeff

Faith, hope and love, and the greatest is love. That is a great passage.

Twisting scriptures is something that both Jesus and Paul warned about. It is easy to do in the name of fullfilling some kind of "quest".