AllTimeJeff

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Posts by AllTimeJeff

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  95

  Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

  because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

  awesome!

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  AllTimeJeff

  Yes, thank you for bringing that up. Again. Duly noted. Again.
• 
  95

  Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

  because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

  awesome!

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  AllTimeJeff

  Thanks for sharing your opinion of me Sulla. Duly noted.
• 
  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

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  AllTimeJeff

  For anyone reading, I can say with equal passion that the Bible L Ron Hubbard is correct, that if you were just a little more educated, a little more sensitive, and just a little more smart, you would see things my way.

  If you were to ask me for proof, or WHY I believe that, I could answer, or I could just try the disingenuous tactic of reframing the debate to discredit who is questioning me.

  I could imply that YOU aren't smart enough to ask me anything. In fact, to explain the wonderful doctrine of the Trinity Scientology would be a waste of time, because in all likelihood, you aren't reflective, sensitive, or smart enough to get it anyway.

  But trust me, you're wrong. I'm right.

  Hey Sulla.... I'm your huckleberry.....
• 
  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

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  AllTimeJeff

  I'm not surprised that some ex-JWs, upon leaving an anti-Christian cult, remain dedicated anti-Christians. I would similarly suspect that, say, Branch Davidians who left that cult have remained outside of the Christian belief system they rejected before they joined that cult. Neither am I surprised that the unearned pride that so many JWs feel, as well as the inchoate hatred of Christianity, remains a driving force for some after they leave the JWs. There was, after all, a reason they joined the JWs in the first place and it ain't because they were the smartest, most reflective, most sensitive kids on the block.

  I joined the Jehovah's Witnessees when my two JW parents had sex one night, caused my birth, and raised me to be a JW.

  Were you ever a JW?

  You really look down on former JW's. I base that on your comment that I quote above.

  Does it really take superior education to worship god? Does God only like 'smart, more reflective, more sensitive' worshipers... like you? If so, I think that rules out your god and your version of god specifically right there. If it is an exclusive club, then your god, like you, is a superior, aloof, self righteous jack ass.

  Sort of like Jehovah.

  Of course, in my (very educated) view, the gods we espouse reflect more of who we are then who god actually is. Little wonder you chose a god just like you.
• 
  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

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  AllTimeJeff

  But I have discovered that Jeff almost always writes exactly the opposite of what he means. He writes that it is pointless to debate the Trinity, and then insists that I offer up reasons for believing the Trinity.

  Sulla, you are odd. After having acknowledged on one thread that I started that I did indeed debate the Trinity when I said it was a waste of time, you have discovered whatever you feel supports your world view, nothing more.

  Your manner of debate is to not say anything at all.

  He writes that he doesn't care if anybody else believes the Trinity, and then calls me out by name to criticize me for being a self-righteous Trinitarian.

  Yes. Because you are self righteous, not because you are a Trinitarian. You are soooo close to figuing that one out.

  Or, was it I who has begun several threads on the topic?

  Again, you are so close here. You have said nothing. That was my whole point, and why I chose to argue with you on the Trinity on my previous thread. (of course, you, like anyone else on this board, can see what threads I have started here. Nice try though....)

  You merely claim that there are superior ways to define and explain the Trinity, yet fail to offer even one. You condescendingly say that I and others reject the Trinity based on inferior information, or that I am limited by my JW background. What you say is offensive and elevates yourself, and just in case you're curious, that is why I believe you to be self righteous and superior acting.

  It's as if you are hoping to make a point by implying their are better ways to understand the Trinity, that the rest of us haven't figured out whatever you claim to have figured out, all the while dodging and avoiding having to explain whatever it is that makes your take on the Trinity better/superior/(whatever) to others.

  The following I am going to put in bold for you.

  I have no qualms with your right to believe the Trinity Sulla.

  I call you out (still, nothing has changed here) for saying you have a superior argument on the trinity, and not presenting it.

  I truly hope that your faith makes you better person.

  I think your next goal for your faith would be to develop a little bit of humility.

  I absolutely contradict whatever statement that you would put out there that your god and your take on god (trinity or otherwise) is the one and only way to worship.

  I have no desire to in general to spend a lot of time debating the Trinity with you per se Sulla. What motivated me to confront you is the appearance you gave (in my view) that you have the absolute truth. That isn't correct. I don't think that debating the trinity in that context with you is a waste of time, because the point isn't your personal belief (i.e. what is good for you) but your supposition that your personal belief is THE one. (i.e. the trinity is THE truth for everyone)

  I got one more for you, but that will be my next comment.....
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  55

  Former JW. money counter at district conventions tells all.

  by koolaid-man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how much money flows into the watchtower coffers at their annual fund raiser the district convention?.

  former witness lurene stanley working along with her high ranking jw.

  husband had the opportunity to see what goes on in the back room at disrtict conventions.

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  AllTimeJeff

  I really want to do my best to be empathetic. I really do.

  Rick used to be a JW, and clearly was hurt. For that, he merits my empathy.

  I first came across Rick's website as I was leaving JW's. My first thought was "This is a dis-service to those trying to expose JW's." Such a website can only attract the mentally ill.

  Rick, when I look at your website, and your tactics specifically, I am reminded of why I never wanted my whole JW past to dominate my future. It would be so easy for me, who has lost my entire family, almost killed in Cameroon, to be VERY sensationalistic.

  I highlight the difference between you and me, because I am not there yet. I still come here to hang out. I get pissed off occasionally. Still. But one thing I won't do is lie.

  I realize you only answer to yourself. That is fine. I bet that you don't care what I or others here say.

  Sadly, I bet you feed off our negative (and honest) feedback.

  I have no expectation that you will listen. I don't say this other then to say, you are wrong, no matter how good intentioned you view yourself.
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  44

  Rick Fearon has been totally exposed!

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why would he post a pic of byron brown, the mayor of buffalo, ny in this thread, http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/215638/1/former-jw-money-counter-at-district-conventions-tells-all .

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  http://www.buffalospreemagazine.com/archives/2006_04/0406byronbrown.html.

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  AllTimeJeff

  To clarify, all this proves is that Rick cannot be trusted to expose JW's.

  It isn't that his desire to show that JW's are liars, in of itself is bad. What is bad is that in his view, the ends justify the means.

  Both Rick Fearon and the Governing Body CLEARLY have one thing in common: They will twist, misuse, sensationalize, and even outright lie, so that they can advance their agenda.

  THAT is what I mean that this is total crap.
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  44

  Rick Fearon has been totally exposed!

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why would he post a pic of byron brown, the mayor of buffalo, ny in this thread, http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/215638/1/former-jw-money-counter-at-district-conventions-tells-all .

  .

  http://www.buffalospreemagazine.com/archives/2006_04/0406byronbrown.html.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Wow. This proves it! I screen shot saved it.

  This is total crap!!!
• 
  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

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• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Hi there leavingWT.

  My question is this: Are you a theist?

  No. I think a deist is more accurate in describing my views on higher powers. I don't believe that a specific god, born of a specific religious dogma, is my god.

  In that sense, I don't have a god. I do believe that a higher power exists. I wouldn't argue for my position though. It is my intuition, and if someone were to say I was wrong, I would probably agree to the point that I couldn't prove what I feel (not believe) at all.

  My belief that a higher power exists helps me to understand spirituality in myself and others. For me, that is it's primary benefit.
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  29

  Judge Rutherford steps off a curb, is struck by a truck and dies.....

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  pastor charles taze russell died on a train outside pampas texas in october of 1916.. shortly afterward a phonecall was placed to j.f.rutherford that "the old man is dead.".

  as we all know, rutherford wasted no time.

  he engineered a series of moves that placed himself at the helm of a publishing company.

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  AllTimeJeff

  For those of us born in's, it very likely means that we would not have been born.