AllTimeJeff

Joined

• started 234 topics
• posted 6,022 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by AllTimeJeff

• 
  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  ATJ, you present a false dilemma for believers such as myself and many others on this board. Most of us don't take these doctrines as the end of what God is, but as a tiny, tiny, tiny, beginning of some sort of insight into what is ultimately ineffable for finite beings.

  This is fine with me. It is one thing to explain your view of god, quite another to insist you understand the nature of god to such a degree that you would feel comfortable insisting on that view to others.

  If that isn't your intention, that is fine. That is certainly my impression though.

  But I must say, in regards to my personal views of what is the correct Trinity teaching, I have to cede the fact that upon reading the Bible, the Trinity does not seem to be its main teaching. Yeah, there are verses that speak to Jesus being God but in order to even attempt to 'prove' the Trinity, one has to cobble a bunch of verses together from disperate writings that may or may not have been intended to be cobbled together like that. The only time the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are mentioned together as being one was in 1 John 5:7-8 and only in a King James Bible for this text did not appear in older manuscripts. Of course, there is also Matthew 28:19 which is cited less often.

  Hi garyneal. Thanks for your honesty. I have meant this and will repeat it again, I respect your right to view and interpret god as you choose, just as I respect Sulla and botchtowersociety's right to do so too.
• 
  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  First of all, I want to apologize to Sulla on a couple of items.

  Sulla is a he, as this thread shows. Also, Sulla clearly has a JW past.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/212771/1/Moms-baby-book

  I genuinely didn't know how to refer to you Sulla. Sorry bout that. I didn't look you up, I wanted to just get it from your mouth is all.

  I asked about you being a JW Sulla because of your statements about the intelligence of JW's and former JW's. Btw, I still think your generalizations are rather convenient for your own theological leanings and are not particularly fair. Obviously, we are both entitled to our opinions and have made them known in our give and takes.
• 
  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Hopefully this goes without saying, but it is one thing to have your theology/viewpoint bring you balance, peace, etc. It is quite another thing when your viewpoint causes you even mentally to have to go against others who differ in belief for very legitimate reasons. If that is the case then I have to question your theology, your world view, the whole enchilada.

  If your theology/world view pits you against others in the world, then your world view is small and limiting. I know I won't change you if you feel Jesus is coming, whatever.

  However, I believe God is bigger than the Trinity. WAY bigger.

  Christians, I am here to tell you that the world is WAY BIGGER then the Gospels, Jesus Christ, the Trinity, whatever.
• 
  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  I know that the Trinity is mis-represented by Jehovah's Witnesses.

  It bears saying as well that Jehovah's Witnesses are also mis-represented.

  How many times did I read as a JW that we celebrated Good Friday, occasionally Easter? I have read articles where JW's believe all sorts of things.

  I am well aware that there are many ways to interpret and believe the Trinity. I do not believe that the Trinity is what JW's described it to be.

  Being mis-represented is one issue, but it isn't the main issue.

  If you garyneal, have an understanding of the Trinity that differs from Sulla (who knows if it is different or the same, as no one seems to be able to encapsulate their views in a few sentences so far) that's cool. In addition, if that particular theology balances you, believe me, that is wonderful.

  While Sulla and I are probably boring everyone to tears right now (my apologies for what that's worth) it is very hard to say that a particular theology is relevant/superior when one isn't willing to share it.

  For what this is worth, I have read up on a variety of information on the Trinity after I read one of leolaia's essays on the matter. While JW's definitively lie about the Trinity, that doesn't give the theology behind it a free pass either.

  In addition, monotheism is rampant through the OT, and there are legitimate issues regarding accepting the OT as part of 'sacred scripture' and having a new doctrine co be introduced after the time of Jesus in the NT.

  I have looked into the bible with an open mind as well and have obviously come to different conclusions.
• 
  38

  New light emerging?

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so, just recently ( i believe it was the september 1 wt) there was the thought that only the "incorrigibly wicked" will be destroyed at armageddon.

  at the recent visit of the co, several times he brought up the idea that the "great crowd" will be far more people than just the 7m jws on earth today.

  all my life i was raised thinking only jws would be the gc, and the other 99.9% of humanity would be fertilizer.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  If they try that, I will be right here waiting.....
• 
  10

  Visa, Mastercard

  by stillin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the recent post from barbara anderson prompted this dialogue between my wife and myself on the way home from the meeting this morning:.

  stillin: i heard that some of the churches actually are swiping your credit card so that you can make your contribution that way.. stillin's very-stillin wife: i'm not at all surprised.

  how much lower can they go?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Sometime's, that what it takes to activate the brain.
• 
  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  People, mankind, are more important than the Trinity, and old, outdated theology.

  I bet you that Jesus would agree.
• 
  161

  Theological Arguments, Human Realities

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have sunken to a new low in condescending posts (according to botchtowersociety, who truthfully is an expert on all things bullshit), it did occur to me that discussions, debates, and mud slinging insult matches on this board often have a common root.. let me put out there that i am not an atheist, nor an agnostic.

  frankly, i respect your right to believe that god is a trinity.

  that he is jesus.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Keep talking Sulla....

  I promise I don't give a shit about your education. What bothers me is that you haven't learned enough about a subject like the Trinity to have any sort of opinion worth listening to, but that this does not stop you from spouting your opinion.

  You have no idea what I know about the Trinity. I call bullshit Sulla. BULLSHIT!

  Share what you know. Or don't. But don't try your "I can't win when my team has the ball" tactic of trying to switch the conversation. Really, if you can't argue the Trinity with someone (gasp, like me) who is clearly not on your educational or intellectual level, what chance does your belief in the Trinity have?

  You haven't given an argument. Still. But are content to say that no former JW is qualifed to talk about it at all.

  Get over yourself.

  Even on the thread where i admit that I argued the Trintiy on a thread where I saw arguing the Trinity as a waste of time, the only thing you point out is that I argued. Ok. Point conceded.

  What I haven't conceded is that YOU (not all Trinitarians, YOU Sulla, ) and what you maintain are wrong in saying that I, among others, aren't qualified to talk about the Trinity.

  Is that your tactic? Are you looking for someone to talk about the Trinity that you respect?

  Geez, this is really all about you anyway. So be it.

  Sulla, with all my heart, you don't have to defend what you believe. I don't. I have some ideas, some beliefs that are important to me. I wouldn't, don't and won't, talk about them or argue them. They are for me.

  So if the Trinity is important to YOU, that IS different. I respect that and hope it brings you peace and stability.

  However, if you come on an internet forum of former JW's, who are read, educated, and experienced in life, and expect us to fall over because you mention Thomas Aquinas's name? Wow. Good luck there.
• 
  35

  Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - The Day My JW Faith Began to Die (finally)

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was late june of 2001 that i was appointed as an elder at the amazingly seasoned age of 26. a true lifelong goal had been achieved.

  i had to be appointed an elder before 30. already, peers were starting to be appointed.

  i had to make it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  BTTT.

  On the 10th anniversary, my thoughts are with the victims and families. As a nation, I hope that we can begin to take the bandage off the scar, and move away from the trauma that has been readily apparant for the last 10 years.

  Peace.
• 
  44

  Rick Fearon has been totally exposed!

  by Iamallcool in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why would he post a pic of byron brown, the mayor of buffalo, ny in this thread, http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/215638/1/former-jw-money-counter-at-district-conventions-tells-all .

  .

  http://www.buffalospreemagazine.com/archives/2006_04/0406byronbrown.html.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Funny how he sounds just like a Bethel elder in his defense for his bullshit.

  Be patient.

  Those who expose me are not patient.

  Those who are reasonable listen to me and are patient.

  I think he couldn't have picked a better name than Kool Aid Man.