Posts by AllTimeJeff

131

Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery in

i have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.

apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.

we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.

AllTimeJeff

C o C is an autobiography of a former GB member who was disfellowshipped because he disagreed with the GB. no need to debate. JWs have never tried to discount his account. They don't care, other than to demonize him by calling him an apostate.

I left JWs after attending Gilead because I learned that the teachings of JWs have changed all to frequently, That none of their "prophecies" have come true, and that they are just another cult.

I read C o C after I left. So I don't care to debate the book. Franz is right, for anyone who cares. But I'm not going to waste my time arguing.

Heres a trivia question: Where is the generation that saw 1914? Six feet under. It was a lie. As Franz demonstrates in C o C.

66

"No Other Magazine Comes Close" - Watchtower's new slogan...

by cedars in

jw
friends

...and they're clearly in the mood for pushing it on youtube.. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lerx3gkthxk.

what is it with all these random youtube channels, each showing polished and highly-produced videos.

AllTimeJeff

They don't get it. Even if YouTube is the perfect forum for them (I.e. 'We talk, you listen'), you still expose JWs and interested ones to the rest of what is on the Internet.

This will kill them. Do you know how easy it is to look for this video and find others? Wow! They are incredibly naive, the GB that is. Who talked them into this?

its clear that GB 2.0 has no idea how to run a cult!

61

The Decline of Elders and Ministerial Servants

by Londo111 in

i seem to remember somebody saying that since the 90's the number of elders has declined from 90000 to 60000. does anybody have any hard figures regarding this?.

the organization is desperate for "qualified" men.

but their standards are much too high, especially the monthly field service hour requirements tagged on to endless meetings and congregational busywork.

AllTimeJeff

Jehovah's Witnesses in the last 40+ years have had two 'peak times': the run up to 1975 and the Live Forever book period of 82-95. Since then, they have peaked.

For both times, the key to those periods of growth was that being an elder meant something, and thus, the GB was able to count on relatively strong leadership locally.

Since '95, the changing of the Generation teaching and the rise of the information age (thank you Internet) has caused young men to look on the Internet for two things that would disqualify an elder; porn and real information.

Cults thrive in a bubble. JWs can't legislate information control like they used to be able to. The drip like growth of JWs in Western nations demonstrates this vividly.

Today, most JWs do take a peek about what is said on the Internet. Most know a little about the Conti case. Most new elders are stunned at the sheer amount of letters from the Service Dept on how to handle pedophiles. If you've ever had to handle a pedophile case, it will make you ill. Anyone with a small bit of humanity hate sitting on JCs. Most elders know that 1914 is a joke, and probably are running side bets on when the GB will change the Generation doctrine again.

You add that up, and it's a disaster. Here's what I predict for the future:

Circuit JC's, where the CO and Service Dept pick who is on them.

A return to a small group, or even one, main elder per congregation.

284

ABOUT TERRY

by Quentin in

jw
friends

terry was admitted to the hospital yesterday.

he has a severe case of cellulites which has affected his neck glands.

his face and neck are very swollen.

AllTimeJeff

Terry, this is horrible. Stay positive and focused. I wish you the best!

25

This board is full of broken and hurt'n people

by Cagefighter in

jw
friends

but it also has some wonderful information about the org and getting help and moving on.

please don't let the nitwits or my arguments with them keep you from looking at a lot of good info on this site.. peace and farewell,.

cf.

AllTimeJeff

Cage fighter, you forgot "brave" and "courageous".

There are plenty of people who are hurt here, but no one I've see that's broken.

The broken ones are the ones who stay with a sense of resignation. (not talking about faders btw) COs and DOs who absolutely know that they are working for a "snare and a racket" but still like their "medium fish in a small puddle" jobs. Elders who are cruel. Pioneer sisters who prefer pretentiousness to love, faith, and sincerity. These are the broken ones.

We left. We landed. We're ok.

In fact, we're going to be just fine.

85

Is Faith Dangerous? A Question for Believers...

by AllTimeJeff in

i hope this will be as respectful a debate as possible.

here is the premise: many of us (most) seem to be ex jw's on this board.

that means, whatever your motivation, for a time you bought into the theology of jw to one degree or another.

AllTimeJeff

I am bumping this thread up, but for my own posterity's sake, as frankly, to lose ones faith is to have your heart tore out.

Wow have I changed. I am very thankful for this, and other debates. It helped me to start thinking. I hadn't been out of JWs for but a few months when I ventured out on this tricky little subject.

Suffice to say, I no longer think that faith is dangerous. My thinking has evolved.

I do think that faith without questions and doubt, blindly following ideology, is dangerous and should be rejected out of hand. (I'm talking to YOU, organized religion)

But lately, I am coming to the conclusion that religious people are powerful, and that it is their faith, not "god", that gives them their power. And that non-religious people demonstrate faith in many things.

Faith is more powerful than god, I think.

More later. And many thanks to those in my early post JW days, esp to Little Toe, whose arguments I respect more than I did at the time.

68

spirituality and religion - what are the differences?

by soft+gentle in

trying to understand the differences.

started this topic on the xjwsforchrist forum as well and would like to ask jwn posters the same question.

AllTimeJeff

My last comment on this is simply, sin is not the same as right and wrong.

Back to the topic at hand, and many thanks for allowing me to share my view.

68

spirituality and religion - what are the differences?

by soft+gentle in

trying to understand the differences.

started this topic on the xjwsforchrist forum as well and would like to ask jwn posters the same question.

AllTimeJeff

Apostatethunder, right and wrong is different than sin for one reason, the guilt it engenders in the person. Guilt is mentally unhealthy.

Right and wrong should be closely related to "live and let live". Sadly, most (if not all religions) teach that certain behaviors, which are really personal decisions and do not otherwise hurt anyone, are in fact, rejected by "god".

That has nothing to do with right or wrong, that is pure control by religious leaders. It does nothing for the person, nothing for a persons spirituality, and only enhances the control of the religion.

That I have a problem with. THAT is wrong, and a sin over a persons freedom.

I realize that all religions have some of it right, but that doesn't justify the other extraordinary claims, nor the certainty that they give behind their definition of "sin". And that, is harmful to a persons spirituality.

21

Question for ex or current :) bethelites

by EndofMysteries in

if any of you have worked in the mail department or are familiar with how mail is handled.

two questions.

1. if a letter is sent to the main bethel address and the name is "the governing body of jehovah's witnesses", will that letter reach them or is it opened and read by an underling who decides if it works it's way to them.

AllTimeJeff

Maybe on both counts. But thanks to their brainwashing, they have elders open their mail, kiss their butts, and pass on what they deem relevant.

68

No More Missionaries

by Lunatic Faith in

jw
friends

has anyone heard about this?

we received an email from an old friend who is still an elder and doesn't know what we are up to.

"a change, they are no longer training missionaries and sending them into foreign fields.

AllTimeJeff

Btw, as an aside, the absolute best source of JWrumors that aren't true but seem to live forever are from elders who think they know more than what they really do.