Posts by Gayle
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2Jehovah's witnesses face increased risk of death during childbirth - article
by Gayle inhttp://www.sciencecentric.com/news/article.php?q=09061083-jehovah-witnesses-face-increased-risk-death-during-childbirth.
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CRITICISM OF 'TOTALITARIAN METHODS' - article
by Gayle inhttp://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,629490,00.html.
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criticism of 'totalitarian methods'jehovah's witnesses winning battle for church status in germanyby matthias bartsch, andrea brandt and simone kaiser.
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Gayle
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,629490,00.html
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CRITICISM OF 'TOTALITARIAN METHODS'
Jehovah's Witnesses Winning Battle for Church Status in Germany
By Matthias Bartsch, Andrea Brandt and Simone Kaiser
Several German states are trying to prevent the Jehovah's Witnesses from gaining the same offical status as the main church faiths. But they're unlikely to succeed after the group, controversial because of what former members call "totalitarian methods," won a landmark court case in Berlin.
Marina J. could still be alive today. Her small daughter would have had a mother and her widower wouldn't be a single father. A blood transfusion could have saved her.
On July 3, 2008, Marina J.'s husband took her to the hospital in the town of Lich in the western German state of Hesse. She was 29 years old, the mother of a seven-year-old daughter and a deeply devout member of the Jehovah's Witness church. The doctors diagnosed her with a miscarriage and strong bleeding. A blood transfusion could have been saved her life, but the woman insisted she didn't want one. She was accompanied by several members of her church and she showed the doctor a living will. Two days later, Marina J. was dead.
RELIGION: 'TOTALITARIAN METHODS'
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Prosecutors in Giessen, a city in Hesse, are researching the case to see if it is possible to pursue criminal charges. The case of a woman whose life could have been saved has also attracted the attention of politicians and government representatives in state capitals in western Germany. They are hoping the death might provide new ammunition in a two-decades old dispute between the state and the Jehovah's Witnesses. Followers of the religion, close to 166,000 in Germany, believe the end is near for this world of sin. But they also believe that there are only 144,000 places available in heaven for a few chosen ones who proved to be particularly pious and true to the bible in life. People, for example, who distribute God's word by handing out copies of the Jehovah's Witnesses magazine, Watchtower, on the streets.
For years, the Jehovah's Witnesses have been seeking to obtain legal recognition as a church from the German government so that they can enjoy the same rights and privileges as the Catholic and Protestant churches.
FROM THE MAGAZINE
Find out how you can reprint this DER SPIEGEL article in your publication. They have already had success in the states of Hesse, Bavaria and Lower-Saxony. But the states of Rhineland-Palatinate, North Rhine-Westphalia and Baden-Württemberg have resisted the church. In Rhineland-Palatinate, Governor Kurt Beck of the center-left Social Democrats is dreading a situation in which the group would get church tax revenues in his state or set up businesses in which trade unions aren't given a say. In Germany, tithing for religions recognized by the government is handled by the state in the form of a church tax.A few weeks ago, Beck called on all division of his state government to "intensively seek out arguments" that could help hinder any official recognition of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Beck said he had "the most considerable doubts as to whether it could be defined as a religious community that is in keeping with Germany's constitution." After all, the intellectual leaders of the centrally organized group discourage members from voting or participating in elections.
Beck's aides have already collected several cases that could be used against the Jehovah's Witnesses. In autumn 1999, for example, a delegation of the Jehovah's Witness community in the state of Bavaria attempted to prevent a life-saving blood transfusion to a school-age child. The child's father, also a Jehovah's Witness, even used physical violence against the head physician. Ultimately, the blood transfusion had to be administered under police protection. And in Baden-Württemberg in 2001, a 16-year-old cancer patient died because his parents refused to permit a blood transfusion, citing the family's faith.
'Very Clearly a Sect'
The statements of former Jehovah's Witness members who claim the organization used "totalitarian methods" is also being considered. They claim the group is permanently demanding donations and endless work on behalf of the organization. They also claim that members who express any doubts about the Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs are subjected to extreme psychological pressure. And they claim that minors who don't want to subject themselves to the group's rules are punished with hard physical "beatings".
Marc Ratajczak, an expert on sects for the conservative Christian Democratic Union party's group in the state government in North Rhine-Westphalia, argues that the Jehovah's Witnesses are "very clearly a sect" who "damn" and "suppress" any other religions or attitudes about life as "Satan's work." In his free time, Ratajczak conducts rescue operations for the Red Cross, and finds it "inhuman" that Jehovah's Witnesses could fundamentally refuse blood transfusions and, by doing so, even allow children to get into life-threatening situations.
The regional member of parliament says he would like to see his state join the initiative to stop the Jehovah's Witnesses that has been spearheaded by neighboring Rhineland-Palatinate. Monika Brunert-Jetter, a fellow CDU member, says her party, the largest in the state government, will resist any attempt by the state government to recognize the Jehovah's Witnesses. The state's parliament would have to vote on any such decision.
But the opponents of Jehova's Witnesses are going to have a hard time. Three years ago, Berlin became the first German state to be forced to award the organisation official recognition as a church. The Berlin city government lost a 15-year legal battle. The Witnesses filed separate applications for recognition in Germany's 15 other states immediately after that. They were able to point to the Berlin court decision as a precedent that gives the other states very little legal leeway.
That's the conclusion regional government officials on church matters reached at a meeting in Bonn last year. All the organisation had to do was avoid breaking the law to make sure that authorities couldn't take away its official status, officials concluded, adding: "The constitution doesn't demand a loyalty that goes beyond that."
Even if individual Jehovah's Witnesses break the law, that doesn't affect the status of the church as a whole.
Recently even the government in Catholic Bavaria quietly recognized the Jehova's Witnesses, as did saxony and Hamburg. In Baden-Württemberg, Culture Minister Helmut Rau had drafted a government document recognizing the church before Governor Günther Oettinger of the CDU stopped it. "Tolerance for religious conviction" is one thing but recognizing it as an official church was "something quite different."
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The head of the CDU parliamentary group in the Baden-Württemberg regional parliament, Stefan Mappus, went further. "A religious community that rejects democratic elections, looks down on individual freedoms and rejects blood transfusions for example, can't be regarded as loyal to the constitution in our opinion." Oettinger now plans to discuss the matter with the big churches.The Jehova's Witnesses have so far reacted calmly to such announcements. The legal situation is "unambiguous," says Gajus Glockentin, lawyer for the German Jehova's Witnesses headquarters in the Hesse town of Selters. The group argued successfully in the Berlin court case that the events cited against it were regrettable individual cases that the group couldn't be blamed for.
The Witnesses' policy of abstaining from voting wasn't an effective arguement either, Glockentin says. After all, declining to vote isn't aimed at weakening democracy, he argues. It's simply the result of an "apolitical attitude to life."
© SPIEGEL ONLINE 2009
All Rights Reserved
Reproduction only allowed with the permission of SPIEGELnet GmbH -
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Money and the BORG...
by cognac init seems to me that most of the borgs growth now is from 3rd world countries and from uneducated, poorer people.
i don't believe this was the case years ago.
and, there are a lot in that are stuck in.
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Gayle
In those third-world countries the organization won't survive,,it is religion that only takes and doesn't give,,other religions in third-world countries often create schools and hospital clinics but JWs won't do that (won't even encourage its youth to go to college even to become teachers, doctors, nurses).
I know many on this site have discussed that the WTs is running out of money and going down, but I like to hear (read) it "every" time!!
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I'm Having a Sheparding Call...
by cognac inaccckkk... this stinks... anyways, there is going to be an elder and ms there.
i just found out who was going to be there.
the ms's daughter is going through a lot of problems right now.
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Gayle
If you be non-committal, upbeat, pleasant, you have no problems, etc, etc, - it confuses them and takes the breath out of them.
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The young ones are leaving in droves!!!
by 1914BS ini hear that many congos are loosing all their young dubs and now only very old dubs are left.
it seems the jws religion is dying out because there are no youngins to replace the aging ms/elder/cos .
the young dubs are very internet savy and would rather play warcraft than go out in the field circus.. i remember a wt study article a couple of years ago that was entitled" when a young person rebels" or something like that - anyone know that mag?.
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Gayle
To Independent,,,wow, what an awesome conversation with your son,,gave me good chills,,you have opened the door for your son by your open honesty and now he sees he can do the same with you! I so feel for the kids,,thankfully Internet and Utube is available and hopefully with more parents there re-evaluating like you so as to help their children to have free minds, honesty of heart and personal conscience.
NIN,,I am so glad you have found this site also. The Watchtower organization did "scramble" our minds and blocked our free mind. As far as our purpose, the Watchtower Society really scrambled that too with a lot of unreality, and only gives an empty purpose for a type of future day that never comes. For me, I found to take one day at a time, trying to be loving, joyful and peaceful the best I can and this life seems to work out pretty good. Also, for the scrambled brains, start reading (the WT scrambled our brains with so much empty nonsense literature). I recommend to read Ray Franz' book, "Crises of Conscience." I had so many thoughts for years but his book helped me to tie it all together for my final conclusion.
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child abuse is a catholic problem according to public talk
by bereanbiblestudent ini went to the public talk and the speaker told us that child abuse is a problem in the catholic church but not so for jehovah s witnesses.. .
i wondered why he said that would that have been in the manuscript.
i know i told him about how it really was when he visited me at home.. .
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Did You Personally Believe "The End" Was Going To Come In Your Lifetime?
by minimus inhonestly, i never believed in the chronology.
"no man knows the day or the hour" was pretty clear to me..
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Gayle
In the mid-80s, at a large social gathering of JWs, people were talking about '75 end issue, one elder arrogantly stated he didn't believe it was going to end then. In response to his remark, I stated, "Wow,,,, no one was saying that,,,,,,,back then!" He was clearly angry at me for me calling him on that comment in front of the group.
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JW wedding announcement
by JWdaughter inhttp://www.thestarpress.com/article/20090607/lifestyle1102/90604024.
anyone else have any visceral reaction to this?
the entire announcement creeped me out..
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Gayle
Oh dear! (And that's all I can say about that)
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82
I commented about apostates today at the meeting
by cognac ini couldn't help myself.
it was so obnoxious what the paragraph was saying about apostates.. so i said that having a difference of opinion is not a problem but really as brought out by thessolonians it is when a person raises themselves up above god to have people follow them instead of god that they are considered bad in god's eyes.. i don't even know if it had anything to do with the question, but i just wanted to say that, lol..
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Gayle
I respect your courage!! Anyway, what part of Thessolonians, do they not agree with, you were only commenting on a scripture there, right?
Best wishes, and don't let those elders get control of your life or the situation.
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Sending Out a Letter to My JW Daughter - Give Me Your Thoughts Please
by flipper insome of you probably read my jw daughter's letter to mrs. flipper and me a few weeks ago where she tried explaining to mrs. flipper why she doesn't have anything to do with me ( says i talk negative towards the organization ) .
in that letter though she showed some flashes of her authentic, kind personality and told us she loves us.
but much of the letter was proselytizing to us about how bad the system is and how jeovah will bring a paradise, etc.
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Gayle
I am always impressed with your comments here, Flipper. You always have a positive, upbuilding spirit. You, also, respond and acknowledge others comments so you encourage comraderie. Your wisdom with your JW daughter is impressive, in not being critical toward her, not trying to change her, keeping your subjects real, hiking and shared experiences, etc. So many best wishes!
